Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 2x08 - "If Memory Serves"

[DaveyNY]

Does anybody else think like me that Pike really doesn't believe that Tyler is responsible for the Spore Drive malfunction or the messages?
He seemed kinda hesitant to take Tyler's badge away and only confined him to quarters not to the brig.

It's just too pat an answer and obvious that he wouldn't be that sloppy in covering up his tracks.
(especially with the future Tech available to him from Section-31)

 

[thribs]

McCoy has said ruder things to Spock than that.

 

[Yistaan]

Does anybody else think like me that Pike really doesn't believe that Tyler is responsible for the Spore Drive malfunction or the messages?
He seemed kinda hesitant to take Tyler's badge away and only confined him to quarters not to the brig.

It's just too pat an answer and obvious that he wouldn't be that sloppy in covering up his tracks.
(especially with the future Tech available to him from Section-31)

It was the quickest way to prove Tyler's innocence, as pike noted later when 31 followed them even after tyler was confined.

 

[lurok]

For once I would like someone to say, “Section 31? What’s that?”

Something creators have struggled with for a long time....

 

[Jadeb]

I felt bad for Tyler during the accusation.

(snip)

She gets worse with every appearance, for me because it's excruciatingly obvious that her plot has a goal to reach and nothing else matters. She's not outsmarting anyone, or pitting her wits against anyone's, or twisting events to her advantage without exercising any official power. Leland and the Admirals all have to be completely incompetent and utterly blind to miss how cacklingly "diabolical" the Unrepentant Evil Cartoon is being in her plans to usurp power. These people in S31 are master tacticians and super spies, or else they wouldn't be here, so having them miss the obvious is a hole in the storytelling and makes every scene with them, and especially her, pull the rug out from under itself. Nothing they do feels like it matters so long as "I'm Getting My Own Show Soon" gets to go around doing whatever she wants because she literally has a destiny to accomplish them. I'd love to be wrong and find out that Leland and the rest of S31 are letting her think she's outsmarting them, but I really, really doubt that's the case. Even if we hadn't been spoiled on this upcoming show, it's still terribly weak writing without believable character motivations; it's just that we happen to know that the motivations are meta-textual ones. It's dramatically uninteresting to see a villain say "this is how I'm going to gain additional power" and then they just... do it, because no one stops them.

I'd feel worse for Tyler if he weren't working for an organization that the same episode suggests is pretty much straight-up eeevil. Not that he should be wrongly accused, but it's hard to play him as a sympathetic protagonist while his comrades are running around murdering innocents.

The Section 31 stuff (including Georgiou) remains the weakest part of the season for me. I keep hoping the show will give it a grayer, more nuanced treatment, but the indications so far are not good.

 

[DaveyNY]

Well, it's pretty obvious to me that Section-31 is very much a condoned part of Star Fleet Intelligence at this point in Trek's time-line.
I'm more than willing to wait for future episodes to show me just why it went from the forefront to the backwaters of history.
With everything else the Producers have shown us so far, I'm thinking that They will most likely give us the answer, if not this season then perhaps in Season 3 or the Section-31 spin-off.

 

[drt]

Another thing I liked about this episode is that Vina saw through the “Pike stayed” illusion pretty quickly, which also helps set up their reunion in “The Menagerie”.

 

[Yistaan]

Another thing I liked about this episode is that Vina saw through the “Pike stayed” illusion pretty quickly, which also helps set up their reunion in “The Menagerie”.

I'm pretty sure in the Cage Vina always knew Pike would go back to his ship. That was the whole point of Pike asking her to beam up and her showing her disfigured form saying she can't.

 

[Campe]

That's interesting, for me it was the opposite. It felt like a brash, confident statement that Discovery is here, and it's directly linked to all Trek that has gone before, right back to the very first adventure. It felt like a triumphant moment for me.

I thought after a season and a half of sometimes good, sometimes great (but never perfect) storytelling, it was earned. Sure, there's been quite a bit of fan service throughout all of this but I think its hard not to utilize a lot of this with 700+ adventures behind you to not make some references to the tapestry that's already there. I hate the "NOT TEH CANNON!!!!!1!!!one!" BS that a lot of fans complain about with either them believing Discovery is "breaking" or "ignoring" too much of it, because for me, canon should be story texture. And that texture is a nice added dimension to it. This was next level. This was an actual missing chapter from one of my favorite Star Trek tales -- The Tragedy of Christopher Pike.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

So enlightened Vulcan has a dangerous sect of racists who inflict harm on non-Vulcans? Logic- fundamentalists.

Wow. Future imperfect. We know one tried to blow Sarek to smithereens last year, but to think they exist at all is...illogical.

 

[Lord Garth]

I thought after a season and a half of sometimes good, sometimes great (but never perfect) storytelling, it was earned. Sure, there's been quite a bit of fan service throughout all of this but I think its hard not to utilize a lot of this with 700+ adventures behind you to not make some references to the tapestry that's already there. I hate the "NOT TEH CANNON!!!!!1!!!one!" BS that a lot of fans complain about with either them believing Discovery is "breaking" or "ignoring" too much of it, because for me, canon should be story texture. And that texture is a nice added dimension to it. This was next level. This was an actual missing chapter from one of my favorite Star Trek tales -- The Tragedy of Christopher Pike.

Yup. If they want another story, that's fine, but there's nothing wrong with the story we have right now. They need to learn the difference between "This isn't what I want" and "This sucks."

 

[DaveyNY]

So enlightened Vulcan has a dangerous sect of racists who inflict harm on non-Vulcans? Logic- fundamentalists.

Wow. Future imperfect. We know one tried to blow Sarek to smithereens last year, but to think they exist at all is...illogical.

They could be Romulans in disguise....
We've seen that before also.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Vina's hair was too long.

3/10

 

[DaveyNY]

Vina's hair was too long.

3/10

... and she didn't hunch her shoulder as much as she should have this time.

 

[Tuskin38]

So enlightened Vulcan has a dangerous sect of racists who inflict harm on non-Vulcans? Logic- fundamentalists.

Wow. Future imperfect. We know one tried to blow Sarek to smithereens last year, but to think they exist at all is...illogical.

They first appeared in TNG.

 

[Jadeb]

I thought after a season and a half of sometimes good, sometimes great (but never perfect) storytelling, it was earned. Sure, there's been quite a bit of fan service throughout all of this but I think its hard not to utilize a lot of this with 700+ adventures behind you to not make some references to the tapestry that's already there. I hate the "NOT TEH CANNON!!!!!1!!!one!" BS that a lot of fans complain about with either them believing Discovery is "breaking" or "ignoring" too much of it, because for me, canon should be story texture. And that texture is a nice added dimension to it. This was next level. This was an actual missing chapter from one of my favorite Star Trek tales -- The Tragedy of Christopher Pike.

TBH, the first season felt, at times, like it was ashamed to be Star Trek, particularly in terms of design and tone. This ep, on the other hand, felt like it was embracing the franchise and its rich history. I wouldn't want this sort of fanservice every episode, but I thought it had value here.

 

[Seven of Five]

That's they I held back and kept the 10 in reserve for episodes like this one.

This is my third 10. My other two were the Saru episodes which I loved so much, particularly the second one where he went home and saw his sister. Those two really resonated with me.

Last week's was a bit weaker, it was obviously more of a setup piece.

 

[Alan Roi]

McCoy has said ruder things to Spock than that.

But he wasn't the 6 year old Spock's older sister young Spock had grown super attached to, was he?

 

[Campe]

If they want another story, that's fine, but there's nothing wrong with the story we have right now. They need to learn the difference between "This isn't what I want" and "This sucks."

Absolutely agree. There's the old adage (that I've heard attributed to Roddenberry) that suggests if fans got what they wanted, it would be a jumbled mess. I say that Star Trek is different things to different people. If you get a focus group of ten Star Trek fans in a room, you'll get twenty different answers of what the perfect Star Trek adventure is going to be. We are not always going to get what we want. And that's okay. At least it should be. Some just can't accept that anything but their vision is right. And sorry to say, some of them are stuck in 1994.

TBH, the first season felt, at times, like it was ashamed to be Star Trek, particularly in terms of design and tone. This ep, on the other hand, felt like it was embracing the franchise and its rich history. I wouldn't want this sort of fanservice every episode, but I thought it had value here.

That's probably fair. But I also think it was building towards the Star Trek ideal. I enjoyed season one but it was far from perfect, and while its message was that this future is one where we are enlightened and should aim to be as perfect as we can be, it did not stick the landing.

Season Two isn't over, of course, and the ending too might miss the mark, but it does feel more Trek to me in a lot of ways. But as should be, having its own spin on the idea.

 

[Roald]

But he wasn't the 6 year old Spock's older sister young Spock had grown super attached to, was he?

This. That was the whole point of the scene, that this changed him as a child. I thought it was brilliant.