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Spoilers Star Trek: Discovery 1x12 - "Vaulting Ambition"

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The MU "diverging" seems like needless speculation to me. It's one of the infinite parallel universes, and could just as well have humans that are otherwise normal but have pitch black skin and red eyes. It just happens to be that it's the one where they have pitch black hearts and light-sensitive eyes.

If there was any divergence, it was back when that first cell decided "to hell with sexual reproduction, I'll have sadomasocistic bisexual reproduction instead".

Timo Saloniemi
 
That's ridiculous. How would he murder a Kelpian and harvest their ganglia in the PU without getting caught? And why would he do it just for a snack?

He could always have synthesized the dish - the scene just reveals his perverse preferences.

I mean, getting Kelpians-to-go ought to be doable since they were bred for prey - somebody supposedly ate them in the PU as well. But we're tempted to evoke past tense here because Saru says there are few of them around nowadays. Perhaps somebody (the UFP?) liberated the delicious Kelpians from their connoiseurs in the PU, but at the same time closed down the ranches necessary for mass production of the species?

Timo Saloniemi
 
He could always have synthesized the dish - the scene just reveals his perverse preferences.

I mean, getting Kelpians-to-go ought to be doable since they were bred for prey - somebody supposedly ate them in the PU as well. But we're tempted to evoke past tense here because Saru says there are few of them around nowadays. Perhaps somebody (the UFP?) liberated the delicious Kelpians from their connoiseurs in the PU, but at the same time closed down the ranches necessary for mass production of the species?

Timo Saloniemi

All Saru says was he was rescued by Starfleet, there is no mention of the world being part of the Federation, it could have been on a mission of exploration or something.

If his homeworld is outside of the federation then it could easily be hunted by poachers.
 
Question: Does the same 1 person vote episodes a 1 every week.
Well I think I was the only one to vote it a 1 last week, and that was in error I thought I had voted it 9.

Which is what I voted this week, I only had one main problem - the running length.
These episodes always seem to finish to damn quickly leaving me waiting a week for the next part.

This has been a very active thread and everything seems to have been picked overseveral times already.

I will hate to lose Lorca if we do I have really enjoyed the character, I have a glimmer of hope that he is a decent guy by Terran standards and there is a path of redemtion of some kind open to him.
 
You know, I actually wonder if Kelpien threat ganglia grow back if they are cut off. If that's the case, it could be that food Kelpians are "harvested" multiple times over the course of their lives.
 
"We were biologically determined for one purpose alone...to sense the coming of the chef. I sense it coming now."
giphy.gif
 
And to that, I do not believe the Emperor was lying. She had no reason to lie at that point. As far as she knew at that moment Lorca was PU Lorca. So she gains nothing by telling that story. Ironic that it’s telling that story that makes Burnham realize that Lorca is MU and he’s been playing her and creeping her the entire damn time.
+
...Indeed. I don't see how certain commentators in this thread don't get that...

At first I thought that "no reason for Georgiou to lie" was a good point, but thinking further: because she believed at that point that Burnham and Lorca were their Prime Universe versions, that is the perfect time to lie, there is no one to refute her claims. The best way to get what she wants from Burnham is by disparaging the character of MU Burnham and MU Lorca and casting herself as the aggrieved party. I don't actually think she was lying, but I think it is very plausible that she could be.

...TOS is the wellspring from which all later Trek is derived. It's the original and the best. I mean, empirically, intellectually, I do understand that there are people out there who became Trek fans through watching TNG or DS9, without ever seeing (or perhaps just without liking) the original... I just don't quite understand how. (And the notion that anyone could have come to Trek fandom through VOY, ENT, or the Abrams films strains my credulity even more.)...

I agree that TOS is the wellspring and it could be considered the "Best" Star Trek simply because it created/defined what Star Trek is or through actual quality evaluation. But there is certainly an argument to be made that later Treks could take that title by being more the full vision of Star Trek - either from more time for Roddenberry or others to ruminate on what is Star Trek, how it should be portrayed, from having more creative freedom (e.g., network interference in DS9 vs in YOY), or having more money. You may personally believe TOS is "empirically, intellectually" the best, but that doesn't actually make it so.
 
Personally, though, I think that anyone who sees TOS as "camp" and Shatner as "overacting" just fundamentally misunderstands Star Trek. TOS is the wellspring from which all later Trek is derived. It's the original and the best. I mean, empirically, intellectually, I do understand that there are people out there who became Trek fans through watching TNG or DS9, without ever seeing (or perhaps just without liking) the original... I just don't quite understand how. (And the notion that anyone could have come to Trek fandom through VOY, ENT, or the Abrams films strains my credulity even more.).

My kids have had to deal with star trek their whole life because of me, but they didn't really interested until Enterprise hit netflix. That's their show. The've seen some TOS, one of them is binge watching DS9, the other is really into DSC. We've even watched Star Trek Continues together, and of course all the movies, but ENT is their trek. It's perfectly plausible. Consider your credibility strained.

TOS doesn't resonate well for everyone. For some yes, but not all. You can enjoy a new western without having to watch The Great Train Robbery, too.
 
This thread is really cooking.

About MU Georgiou, there is a rational explanation here: She just saw what she wanted to see. MU Burnham and Lorca really did have a genuine mentor/paternal relationship but Georgiou's bias and jealousy distorted the truth, especially given Lorca's other relationships with women - which again, there is zero evidence to suggest they were ever anything but consensual.

There's really a whole lot of assumption going on here.
 
That's ridiculous. How would he murder a Kelpian and harvest their ganglia in the PU without getting caught? And why would he do it just for a snack?

Saru says on his planet he is prey. Maybe Lorca got some takeout from the food synthesiser based on the menu of the planet where Sarus go Moo. (Whichever species preys on his kind must logically also be sentient, and also called a Kelpian.)
 
ent-thesearethevoyages12.jpg

Now this is one of Tom Riker's favorites. I'm going to start off with some fresh Kelpian ganglia I've been marinating overnight..
Suddenly thinking of the Space Cow from "Restaurant at the End of the Universe..."

A large dairy animal approached Zaphod Beelebrox’s table, a large fat meaty quadraped of the bovine type with large watery eyes, small horns and what might have been an ingratiating smile on its lips.

“Good evening,” it lowed and sat back heavily on its haunches, “I am the main Dish of the Day. May I interest you in parts of my body?” It harrumphed and gurgled a bit, wriggled its hind quarters into a more comfortable position and gazed peacefully at them.

Its gaze was met by looks of startled bewilderment from Arthur and Trillian, a resigned shrug from Ford Prefect and naked hunger from Zaphod Beeblebrox.

“Something off the shoulder perhaps?” suggested the animal. “Braised in a white wine sauce?”

“Er, your shoulder?” said Arthur in a horrified whisper.

“But naturally my shoulder, sir,” mooed the animal contentedly, “nobody else’s is mine to offer.”

Zaphod leapt to his feet and started prodding and feeling the animal’s shoulder appreciatively.

“Or the rump is very good,” murmured the animal. “I’ve been exercising it and eating plenty of grain, so there’s a lot of good meat there.” It gave a mellow grunt, gurgled again and started to chew the cud. It swallowed the cud again.

“Or a casserole of me perhaps?” it added.

“You mean this animal actually wants us to eat it?” whispered Trillian to Ford.

“Me?” said Ford, with a glazed look in his eyes. “I don’t mean anything.”

“That’s absolutely horrible,” exclaimed Arthur, “the most revolting thing I’ve ever heard.”

“What’s the problem, Earthman?” said Zaphod, now transferring his attention to the animal’s enormous rump.

“I just don’t want to eat and animal that’s standing there inviting me to,” said Arthur “It’s heartless.”

“Better than eating an animal that doesn’t want to be eaten,” said Zaphod.

“That’s not the point,” Arthur protested. Then he thought about it for a moment. “All right,” he said, “maybe it is the point. I don’t care, I’m not going to think about it now. I’ll just … er …”

The Universe raged about him in its death throes.

“I think I’ll just have a green salad,” he muttered.

“May I urge you to consider my liver?” asked the animal, “it must be very rich and tender by now, I’ve been force feeding myself for months.”

“A green salad,” said Arthur emphatically.

“A green salad?” said the animal, rolling his eyes disapprovingly at Arthur.

“Are you going to tell me,” said Arthur, “that I shouldn’t have the green salad?”

“Well,” said the animal, “I know many vegetables that are clear on that point. Which is why it was eventually decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly. And here I am.”

It managed a very slight bow.

“Glass of water please,” said Arthur.

“Look,” said Zaphod, “we want to eat, we don’t want to make a meal of the issues. Four rare steaks please, and hurry. We haven’t eaten in five hundred and seventy-six thousand million years.”

The animal staggered to its feet. It gave a mellow gurgle.

“A very wise choice, sir, if I may say so. Very good,” it said. “I’ll just nip off and shoot myself.”

He turned and gave a friendly wink to Arthur.

“Don’t worry, sir,” he said, “I’ll be very humane.”

It waddled unhurriedly off to the kitchen.
 
Suddenly thinking of the Space Cow from "Restaurant at the End of the Universe..."

A large dairy animal approached Zaphod Beelebrox’s table, a large fat meaty quadraped of the bovine type with large watery eyes, small horns and what might have been an ingratiating smile on its lips.

“Good evening,” it lowed and sat back heavily on its haunches, “I am the main Dish of the Day. May I interest you in parts of my body?” It harrumphed and gurgled a bit, wriggled its hind quarters into a more comfortable position and gazed peacefully at them.

Its gaze was met by looks of startled bewilderment from Arthur and Trillian, a resigned shrug from Ford Prefect and naked hunger from Zaphod Beeblebrox.

“Something off the shoulder perhaps?” suggested the animal. “Braised in a white wine sauce?”

“Er, your shoulder?” said Arthur in a horrified whisper.

“But naturally my shoulder, sir,” mooed the animal contentedly, “nobody else’s is mine to offer.”

Zaphod leapt to his feet and started prodding and feeling the animal’s shoulder appreciatively.

“Or the rump is very good,” murmured the animal. “I’ve been exercising it and eating plenty of grain, so there’s a lot of good meat there.” It gave a mellow grunt, gurgled again and started to chew the cud. It swallowed the cud again.

“Or a casserole of me perhaps?” it added.

“You mean this animal actually wants us to eat it?” whispered Trillian to Ford.

“Me?” said Ford, with a glazed look in his eyes. “I don’t mean anything.”

“That’s absolutely horrible,” exclaimed Arthur, “the most revolting thing I’ve ever heard.”

“What’s the problem, Earthman?” said Zaphod, now transferring his attention to the animal’s enormous rump.

“I just don’t want to eat and animal that’s standing there inviting me to,” said Arthur “It’s heartless.”

“Better than eating an animal that doesn’t want to be eaten,” said Zaphod.

“That’s not the point,” Arthur protested. Then he thought about it for a moment. “All right,” he said, “maybe it is the point. I don’t care, I’m not going to think about it now. I’ll just … er …”

The Universe raged about him in its death throes.

“I think I’ll just have a green salad,” he muttered.

“May I urge you to consider my liver?” asked the animal, “it must be very rich and tender by now, I’ve been force feeding myself for months.”

“A green salad,” said Arthur emphatically.

“A green salad?” said the animal, rolling his eyes disapprovingly at Arthur.

“Are you going to tell me,” said Arthur, “that I shouldn’t have the green salad?”

“Well,” said the animal, “I know many vegetables that are clear on that point. Which is why it was eventually decided to cut through the whole tangled problem and breed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten and was capable of saying so clearly and distinctly. And here I am.”

It managed a very slight bow.

“Glass of water please,” said Arthur.

“Look,” said Zaphod, “we want to eat, we don’t want to make a meal of the issues. Four rare steaks please, and hurry. We haven’t eaten in five hundred and seventy-six thousand million years.”

The animal staggered to its feet. It gave a mellow gurgle.

“A very wise choice, sir, if I may say so. Very good,” it said. “I’ll just nip off and shoot myself.”

He turned and gave a friendly wink to Arthur.

“Don’t worry, sir,” he said, “I’ll be very humane.”

It waddled unhurriedly off to the kitchen.

Bah. I did this reference already xD
Amusingly, played on screen by Peter Davison, famous at that point for sticking his arm up cows in All Creatures Great and Small, and of course later the Fifth Doctor in Doctor Who. His wife Sandra Dickinson is in the same scene as Trillian, and the family history with Who Moderne is well known.
 
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