Star Trek Canon Problems

[fireproof78]

Pleasing 1% or fans over 99% isn’t logical. Just ask Terry Matalas about his choice to include the Enterprise-F over the E.

As @BillJ told me recently, it's not logical. Humans are not logical and writers and producers are no exceptions. Expecting logic from them is setting yourself up for disappointment in some fashion, brief though it might be.

I don't know if you live in the States or not, and not to disparage Nichelle Nichols in any way I love what she brought to Uhura, her impact has been "overhyped" over the past few decades by fans.

And herself, and Martin Luther King Jr, may they rest in peace.

 

[BillJ]

What? Please the fans?

Fans are a fickle bunch. They might tell you they love something one day, then hate it the next.

 

[BillJ]

As @BillJ told me recently, it's not logical. Humans are not logical and writers and producers are no exceptions. Expecting logic from them is setting yourself up for disappointment in some fashion, brief though it might be.

Beautiful thing is that writers and producers have tools to use in concert with logic to gauge a situation.

 

[fireproof78]

Fans are a fickle bunch. They might tell you they love something one day, then hate it the next.

Oh, I agree. I am greatly amused by reactions because it demonstrates the profoundly inconsistent nature of fans.

But, it's always a cheap and easy way to silence critics is to give in to the loudest people. Which is exactly what has been done.

Beautiful thing is that writers and producers have tools to use in concert with logic to gauge a situation.

They will still react with emotion.

 

[flandry84]

And when does the bridge start de-evolving from SNW’s futuristic one to TOS style cardboard?

This pathological need for canon is the the reason for all that Klingon forehead bullshit.The producers should have just pressed on and not pandered to all that stuff.

 

[Cr0sis21]

And when does the bridge start de-evolving from SNW’s futuristic one to TOS style cardboard?

....Never?

 

[BillJ]

They will still react with emotion.

Yes. But they have to back up that emotion to some degree in order to get the money to produce it.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes. But they have to back up that emotion to some degree in order to get the money to produce it.

Somewhat.

Not as much as I see expected.

 

[fireproof78]

This pathological need for canon is the the reason for all that Klingon forehead bullshit.The producers should have just pressed on and not pandered to all that stuff.

They will not.

 

[BillJ]

Nostalgia can be fun at times. I'm just struggling with everything hanging so heavily on nostalgia. I like science-fiction because I like new ideas, new concepts.

I guess it is a money maker for CBS. I just don't know where you go from here?

 

[fireproof78]

Nostalgia can be fun at times. I'm just struggling with everything hanging so heavily on nostalgia. I like science-fiction because I like new ideas, new concepts.

I guess it is a money maker for CBS. I just don't know where you go from here?

Right now, the lesson is nostalgia makes money.

 

[Annorax849]

Wow, not even a day old and 171 posts.

 

[mb22]

I blame the Star Trek Chronology and Star Trek Encyclopedia. Everyone took it as absolute gospel when the Chronology even had a disclaimer saying it was intended as a fun guide and not an absolute. A generation of fans grew up obsessing over those books like they were the holy writ.

I blame Bjo Trimble and The Star Trek Concordance.

 

[Lord Garth]

The plain, boring truth: In the final episode(s), they won't make SNW look like TOS. At most, they'll make it look closer to TOS. That's as far as they'll go.

 

[Paul755]

exactly. They have zero interest in revisiting the TOS aesthetic and that is absolutely their prerogative.

and there is nothing wrong with that. We can disagree and head canon all of nu-Trek into a separate universe (if we choose) but officially, what they say goes. For better or worse.

 

[C.E. Evans]

And when does the bridge start de-evolving from SNW’s futuristic one to TOS style cardboard?

Most people will be shocked to know that the same "cardboard" is being used for SNW. Hollywood set construction materials really haven't changed that much since TOS, but chemicals can be used to make things look shinier. Advances in lighting and monitor display technology also helps.

This pathological need for canon is the the reason for all that Klingon forehead bullshit.The producers should have just pressed on and not pandered to all that stuff.

IMO, they were pandering to their own desire to "fix" something they perceived as needing fixing. Back in the day, fans were mostly content that there were just different types of Klingons within the Empire, and didn't really need an onscreen explanation, but noooo, some writer or producer couldn't leave it alone and had to make it complicated and messy.

Fans don't create "canon problems," but they do call them out when they see them. That was true even when TOS was actually on the air, and isn't likely to stop now or in the future. If people don't like other people criticizing Trek, they're free to just watch the show or movie and avoid critical conversations about Trek. I mean, what we see now with fandom is no different than it was 55+ years ago, except that there's more of it and it's way easier to access thanks to the internet.

To the rest of the world, there's nothing wrong with Trek's canon and don't even know what the heck we're talking about...

 

[somebuddyX]

There's discontinuities inside individual episodes, let alone between series. At some point you just got to let it go. I think using head canon to get around stuff can be fun but as long as you don't twist yourself into knots trying to explain something that came out of a budgetary or story compromise. Regardless of the final product I genuinely think everyone who worked on Trek tried to give their best.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The plain, boring truth: In the final episode(s), they won't make SNW look like TOS. At most, they'll make it look closer to TOS. That's as far as they'll go.

I say they'll do it for the Picard season 3 Enterprise D pop. It'll be like the end of Star Trek IV, with the TOS ship, the TOS bridge (James Cawley did confirm CBS asked him permission to film on his sets years ago) and the obsessive dot connecting continuity nuts getting their dopamine hit.

 

[Lord Garth]

The last episode will probably have a "refit" and a quick scene where Kirk, on the TOS Set Tour bridge ordering them out of spacedock, to keep the Picard Season 3 crowd happy.

Being a fan of Discovery and a fan of Picard (including Season 3) makes me a hybrid. A half-breed. And being a half-breed, I can tell you that ship has already sailed. The "full-blooded" PIC S3 fans won't be won over. I know them better than you do.

I think the only PIC S3 fans you'll make happy are the ones who are also fans of SNW. Meaning other hybrids. Different hybrids than I am, but hybrids nonetheless. If they're not already fans of SNW, ending with the TOS Enterprise isn't going to suddenly turn them into ones.

You might make some Canonistas happy, if they're willing to overlook (or explain away) "The Cage" and WNMHGB, but not all Canonistas are PIC Season 3 Fans. Case in point: The Steweys of the world won't even look at PIC S3, forget about SNW.

I briefly considered before that they might have the Enterprise heavily damaged and turned into the TOS Enterprise, but then I dismissed the idea later on. SNW already has its own fans and I think Akiva Goldsman is looking at them first. Akiva Goldsman can't expand the SNW Tent with TOS Only Fans the way Terry Matalas could with Primarily TNG Fans. And Akiva Goldsman isn't going to have much luck throwing TOS stuff at Primarily TNG Fans, if he tries to expand the tent towards them instead. TOS isn't what does it for them. The two situations, with PIC and SNW, are apples and oranges.

But who knows? Now that I've typed all that, if I'm wrong, then having the TOS bridge at the end is exactly what they'll do. Despite everything I typed above, we can't underestimate either Alex Kurtzman or The Suits above him pulling the strings exclaiming, "It's all one Timeline! The CBS Timeline! Go watch TOS after SNW!"

 

[BillJ]

We can disagree and head canon all of nu-Trek into a separate universe (if we choose) but officially, what they say goes. For better or worse.

What CBS says only applies to people who actually work on Trek.