Star Trek Canon Problems

[Michael]

They have zero interest in revisiting the TOS aesthetic and that is absolutely their prerogative.

I know you probably didn’t mean anything by it, but the way you’ve phrased this is kind of baffling to me: They have “zero interest” in “revisiting the TOS aesthetic”? They are obviously not one-on-one copying the sets, ship designs, costumes and props from the 60s, like they did on fan productions like “New Voyages” or “Continues”. But how can anyone say they have “zero interest” in the aesthetic, when there’s just SO many obvious nods to designs from the original show? There’s so many instances where they’ve went out of their way to design something that’s an updated take on something they did in the 60s, it’s ridiculously cool, actually.

I mean, look at this and tell me they are not obviously in love with the TOS aesthetic and respect it so much …

 

[Tuskin38]

Heck even Discovery had a few of those things. There were data cards in Seasons 1 and 2, and the Admiral Cornwell was wearing those triangle ribbon medal things in the Season 1 finale.

Though SNW did it better

Couple things to add to that collage. Pike's Desktop computer in Season 2, and the desk comm panel on a few desks in the series are right from TOS. Probably even more accurate to the original design than anything else.

There's also the phaser, Tricorder, communicator....

 

[fireproof78]

Impossible!
Everyone knows they hate STAR TREK and are trying to erase TOS! Abrams tried too but I wrapped my VHS in aluminum foil and stored them in an old salt mine.

 

[Skipper]

Why are there so many who have difficulty understanding that we are no longer in 1967? I understand the nostalgia but it goes too far here.

"In the new series the spaceships don't have a black border! It's a total lack of respect and a clear violation of canon! I don't understand why they don't want to follow the TOS aesthetic!!!!"

 

[Lord Garth]

I know you probably didn’t mean anything by it, but the way you’ve phrased this is kind of baffling to me: They have “zero interest” in “revisiting the TOS aesthetic”? They are obviously not one-on-one copying the sets, ship designs, costumes and props from the 60s, like they did on fan productions like “New Voyages” or “Continues”. But how can anyone say they have “zero interest” in the aesthetic, when there’s just SO many obvious nods to designs from the original show? There’s so many instances where they’ve went out of their way to design something that’s an updated take on something they did in the 60s, it’s ridiculously cool, actually.

I mean, look at this and tell me they are not obviously in love with the TOS aesthetic and respect it so much …

I do like that collage.

"Garth has gone TNG! Never thought that would happen! Let's try to rope him back over to the TOS Column with this!"

 

[fireproof78]

Why are there so many who have difficulty understanding that we are no longer in 1967? I understand the nostalgia but it goes too far here.

"In the new series the spaceships don't have a black border! It's a total lack of respect and a clear violation of canon! I don't understand why they don't want to follow the TOS aesthetic!!!!"

Strict literal interpretation at work.

 

[1001001]

"In the new series the spaceships don't have a black border! It's a total lack of respect and a clear violation of canon! I don't understand why they don't want to follow the TOS aesthetic!!!!"

My favorite:

“SNW must be in an alternate timeline, because April is Black!”

 

[Skipper]

Strict literal interpretation at work.

Well it isn't, well, literally the point? People talk about canon violation because they interpret what they see on a screen at a literally level?

 

[fireproof78]

Well it isn't, well, literally the point? People talk about canon violation because they interpret what they see on a screen at a literally level?

Strict being the keyword.

To clarify, with this interpretation TWOK and TSFS take place in two different continuities because of Saavik.

 

[Paul755]

I know you probably didn’t mean anything by it, but the way you’ve phrased this is kind of baffling to me: They have “zero interest” in “revisiting the TOS aesthetic”? They are obviously not one-on-one copying the sets, ship designs, costumes and props from the 60s, like they did on fan productions like “New Voyages” or “Continues”. But how can anyone say they have “zero interest” in the aesthetic, when there’s just SO many obvious nods to designs from the original show? There’s so many instances where they’ve went out of their way to design something that’s an updated take on something they did in the 60s, it’s ridiculously cool, actually.

I mean, look at this and tell me they are not obviously in love with the TOS aesthetic and respect it so much …

perhaps a poor choice of words. I meant a 1 for 1 replication of TOS like they did on Enterprise. They could (and imo should) have just dropped in the classic TOS Enterprise as she appeared for the first 50+ years of the franchise. But Kurtzman and the show runners weren’t interested in doing that. They wanted something retro but modern. And that’s fine, that’s their choice and it’s not gonna change. I like most of what they’ve done.

you either love it, hate it or are indifferent.

great collage btw…

 

[Michael]

Heck even Discovery had a few of those things. There were data cards in Seasons 1 and 2, and the Admiral Cornwell was wearing those triangle ribbon medal things in the Season 1 finale.

Definitely! And I think I’m one of the few who actually liked their version of the Enterprise bridge better than they version they remodeled for the show proper. The somewhat cooler color scheme was more cinematically interesting and those corridors behind the consoles were a neat concept.

Couple things to add to that collage. Pike's Desktop computer in Season 2, and the desk comm panel on a few desks in the series are right from TOS. Probably even more accurate to the original design than anything else.

There's also the phaser, Tricorder, communicator....

Yes! There’s so much stuff I could add to the collage! There’s so many small ways in which they paid tribute to designs from the original show, I’m sure some of them even flew over many peoples’ heads, because of course they wisely never really stop and draw attention to this stuff on the show. The production designers on Strange New Worlds really deserve being highlighted for their work. Even if you were to take out all those lovely nods to the original, the production design on the show is simply gorgeous.

Here’s more stuff I found …

But Kurtzman and the show runners weren’t interested in doing that. They wanted something retro but modern. And that’s fine, that’s their choice and it’s not gonna change.

And as a creative person I 100% understand this approach, to be honest. Imagine you have trained your entire life to work in a creative profession — doesn’t matter if it’s set design, writing, scoring, prop design, special effects etc. — what you’re bringing to a production like this is your own unique artistic vision and take. Everything else would be boring and not as interesting as the challenge of presenting their own take. Recreating an aesthetic one-for-one is fine, maybe for a one-off episode. But not if what you’re doing is spending a whole show in this world telling new stories. They love the TOS aesthetic, but they don’t see their job as slavishly making copies of that.

 

[Tuskin38]

They could (and imo should) have just dropped in the classic TOS Enterprise as she appeared for the first 50+ years of the franchise.

That would have looked terrible on modern TV.

Here’s more stuff I found …

Huh I completely missed Spock having one of those computers in SNW.

That machine in Sickbay is probably the most obscure thing they've recreated lol

 

[fireproof78]

And as a creative person I 100% understand this approach, to be honest. Imagine you have trained your entire life to work in a creative profession — doesn’t matter if it’s set design, writing, scoring, prop design, special effects etc. — what you’re bringing to a production like this is your own unique artistic vision and take. Everything else would be boring and not as interesting as the challenge of presenting their own take. Recreating an aesthetic one-for-one is fine, maybe for a one-off episode. But not if what you’re doing is spending a whole show in this world telling new stories. They love the TOS aesthetic, but they don’t see their job as slavishly making copies of that.

Exactly so. I hear comments like "oh, artists just want to leave their mark on a franchise," and I'm line "No shit?" These are creative people, who often don't want to hold on to all the conventions and directly copy past work. We would not consider that art, in my view.

And that's my biggest frustration. It's demanding that creative people be bound by artistic rules from 50 years ago, and demanding complete adherence to these ideas. Imagine being an artist and being told you need to use the same materials 50 years ago? No computers, etc. It sounds ridiculous on an ongoing creative basis.

If TOS was an historic period I could maybe agree with it. But, TOS is an imaginary future based upon technological understanding of the time. I think SNW has done a better job with updating it, while still using the tools as used in TOS.

 

[HotRod]

I'm stealing these collages for future online arguments. They're great!

 

[Cr0sis21]

My favorite:

“SNW must be in an alternate timeline, because April is Black!”

A personal favorite of mine, since for decades fans wanted to just ignore TAS and pretend it never happened, but as soon as Robert April is black, boy howdy that desecrates the vaunted canon of our beloved TAS!

 

[Lord Garth]

April is actually my favorite character in SNW. Followed by La'an and Number One.

 

[fireproof78]

Here’s more stuff I found

I should add that Pike's wrap around is one of my favorites that hey have done, and also he has a more gray/black one later on.

 

[Michael]

I'm stealing these collages for future online arguments. They're great!

Be my guest.

Spoiler: Here’s a more handy version with both collages combined …

I’m sure it could be double as many items if one would look into it even more thoroughly. There’s also some more obvious stuff we probably all take for granted by now, like how the bridge takes so many direct design cues from the original (like the chairs, specific light and screen configurations etc.) or how some of the classic costumes have been updated (like M’Benga’s tunic or T’Pring’s dresses).

 

[Cr0sis21]

I should also add that, as far as aesthetics are concerned: does Scotty have four fingers on his right hand or five?
And are we in a parallel universe in Picard Season 3 since there's a distinct lack of black paper on the consoles?

 

[Skipper]

You know, seeing these images it would almost seem that Star Trek is a fictional product born from the creativity of different people who have different artistic visions and not live footage of news events (as we all know). Strange.

I always wonder why someone on the bridge of the Enterprise plays mood music when they are attacked. But doesn't it distract them!?!