Spoilers Star Trek biggest problem is Alex Kurtzman

[Spot261]

as I said Picard is kurtzman's vision.


no, its dumb start trek down and made trek generic stuff . also why make that move when others have shown you can do intellectual more compelling sci fi stories and still be very successful?

for worth is worth, I can't wait for Noah hawley's star trek movie, hopefully it does well and he can become the head runner of trek TV.

So it's worse than TNG season 1?

Seriously?

Have you actually watched that recently? In fact, TOS aside, which series actually had a stronger first season?

 

[Spot261]

I disagree. Making Star Trek like everything else won't do it any favors.



DS9 (and Enterprise to a lesser extent) had the best mix of arcs and stand alone episodes. I know they had more episodes but that gave them time to explore a character for an episode with the main arc going on in the background. They had many different arcs for different characters happening at the same time and wove them all together.

I think Trek is late to the game of serialization.

Really? Tell that to the DS9 writers.

 

[Nenya]

Really? Tell that to the DS9 writers.

I should clarify that I mean full serialization like Discovery and Picard. DS9 had stand alone episodes that let the viewer take a breather every now and then. There's nothing wrong with serialization but give us a break every now and then.

 

[Gov Kodos]

I'm learning to let go. Would you rather Trek die a dignified death of have them trot out the corpse every few years and whip it some more?

Go buy CBS and do something about it. They seem to think their making money. They gave the show a second season. Disco is continuing. Folks will continue liking what you don't, your opinions not withstanding.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

as I said Picard is kurtzman's vision.


no, its dumb start trek down and made trek generic stuff . also why make that move when others have shown you can do intellectual more compelling sci fi stories and still be very successful?

for worth is worth, I can't wait for Noah hawley's star trek movie, hopefully it does well and he can become the head runner of trek TV.

It really hasn't. A large majority of 90's trek was dumb and generic especially when it was relying on a visit from Lwaxana Troi, or an irish town holodeck program to make an episode. What's compelling about Q shoving everyone into a Robin Hood fantasy, or having Neelix tell a story to a bunch of borgified kids?

 

[Spot261]

I should clarify that I mean full serialization like Discovery and Picard. DS9 had stand alone episodes that let the viewer take a breather every now and then. There's nothing wrong with serialization but give us a break every now and then.

So did Discovery to an extent. MTMTSMGM was one.

Let's be honest here, the assumption that PIC is indicative of a problem is nonsense. Most of us like it, many (myself included) would argue this is the strongest first season since TOS and frankly most of TNG up to this point had been painfully bad. Amongst the worst Trek ever made.

Rose tinted glasses about TNG do it no justice when it contained "Code of Honour" amongst it's roster. The strongest episode of the first two seasons was arguably TMOAM, which is exactly where this follows from and does so with a degree of faith and loving attention to the original which the writers of TNG didn't even attempt when they made "The Naked Now".

 

[Dales]

Yep, Kurtzman is such a big failure that there will soon be 7 different Star Trek shows all airing with his name on them.

I never said he was a failure, I said he is not a great writer or compelling story teller. his work on trek is very inferior to the best we have ever seen of trek.

 

[Dales]

Also why are the new trek shows making some of their female characters act like Cassie Cage from Mortal Kombat? I guess this is kurtzman way of making trek look cool.

The first picard episode and the two action scenes that is very transformerish does not help.

 

[Midquest]

as I said Picard is kurtzman's vision.

OK, prove it. Show us evidence.

Because I can tell you what we know, which is that a treatment authored exclusively by Chabon is what got Stewart on board. And while that treatment changed once Stewart came onto the project, whatever Stewart saw in the series came from Chabon. Also, it's Chabon's name, not Kurtzman's, that you'll see listed as showrunner, Chabon's name, not Kurtzman's, that you'll see on many of the episodes, and Chabon, not Kurtzman, who has operated as the show's public figurehead.

Please, show me evidence that this is Kurtzman's vision.

 

[Campe]

Also why are the new trek shows making some of their female characters act like Cassie Cage from Mortal Kombat?

Who?

 

[thribs]

Very true.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I have seen discovery season 1 and 2 and I am watching Picard and both shows both suffer from the Alex Kurtzman lack of great talent problems.

Thing is Alex is a generic writer and story teller. most of his work is superficial at best. he is not capable of writing deep drama or coming out with a complex multi layered plot. all he knows is generic easy plot and paper thin science fiction and having a lot of action scenes. As a creator , I will not put him on the same wave length as Christopher Nolan , Norah Hawley, Alfonso Cuarón or some of the past best star trek writers that wrote episodes like yesterday's enterprise or the measure of a man.

Alex lack of talent is severely hurting this new trek shows. discovery season 2 overall story plot was mediocre and too predictable for words. it had lots of action you only see in mcu and transformers movies. Picard is almost the same thing. the first episode already had two shallow cool action fight scene because this is what Alex is about. the plot of Picard gets thiner and more predictable with each episode.

Looking at Kurtzman track record. the only thing good or even kind of good thing his name has ever been on was star trek 2009. No offence but I think it was a bad idea of the guy who wrote the transformers movies, wrote and directed the mummy, wrote star trek into darkness, cowboy and aliens, amazing spiderman 2 to be the head show runner of star trek.

discovery and Picard are generic sci fi shows and are no where the best of star trek: TNG, DS9 and TOS and it is all down to Alex Kurtzman not been a good fit for star trek.

in Hollywood the Alex Kurtzman and Robert Orci partnership is one of the worst writing teams you could ever hire. 90% of there work barely gets any critical acclaim. Puting one of them as the master maker of star trek was a bad idea.

Posting the same thread in two different forums with only cosmetic differences in the title and opening lines is considered spamming. In the future, if you have a topic like this that covers more than one series, please post the thread once in a show-neutral forum such as General Trek Discussion or Future of Trek. As this one is more focused on the current series, I'm moving to the former.

 

[Nenya]

So did Discovery to an extent. MTMTSMGM was one.

Let's be honest here, the assumption that PIC is indicative of a problem is nonsense. Most of us like it, many (myself included) would argue this is the strongest first season since TOS and frankly most of TNG up to this point had been painfully bad. Amongst the worst Trek ever made.

Rose tinted glasses about TNG do it no justice when it contained "Code of Honour" amongst it's roster. The strongest episode of the first two seasons was arguably TMOAM, which is exactly where this follows from and does so with a degree of faith and loving attention to the original which the writers of TNG didn't even attempt when they made "The Naked Now".

One episode.

 

[Dales]

OK, prove it. Show us evidence.

Because I can tell you what we know, which is that a treatment authored exclusively by Chabon is what got Stewart on board. And while that treatment changed once Stewart came onto the project, whatever Stewart saw in the series came from Chabon. Also, it's Chabon's name, not Kurtzman's, that you'll see listed as showrunner, Chabon's name, not Kurtzman's, that you'll see on many of the episodes, and Chabon, not Kurtzman, who has operated as the show's public figurehead.

Please, show me evidence that this is Kurtzman's vision.

the evidence lies in the other things he has written or was heavily involved in.
when you watch Picard and discovery you can tell its the same writer that wrote transformers, cowboys and aliens, spiderman 2, the mummy and everything he has ever done.

its a pattern, its how you can tell a Tarentino movie or a Nolan movie. Kurtzman is the same. as I said the proof lies in the generic story telling of picard and all the superficial action set pieces.

Picard's best two moments in all of trek was in the measure of a man and yesterday's enterprise. kurtzman is not capable of that kind of writing and story telling.

Posting the same thread in two different forums with only cosmetic differences in the title and opening lines is considered spamming. In the future, if you have a topic like this that covers more than one series, please post the thread once in a show-neutral forum such as General Trek Discussion or Future of Trek. As this one is more focused on the current series, I'm moving to the former.

I apologise for that. I knew it may be an issue so I do apologise , its just that the problem both applies to Picard and discovery.

kurtzman said Picard will be different, he even sort of admitted discovery was indeed a generic sci-fiction action show when kurtzman said Picard will be more mature and intellectual to discovery but it turned out, he lied as well. Picard is cut from the same cloth as discovery because that is kurtzman way of doing things

 

[F. King Daniel]

OK, prove it. Show us evidence.

Because I can tell you what we know, which is that a treatment authored exclusively by Chabon is what got Stewart on board. And while that treatment changed once Stewart came onto the project, whatever Stewart saw in the series came from Chabon. Also, it's Chabon's name, not Kurtzman's, that you'll see listed as showrunner, Chabon's name, not Kurtzman's, that you'll see on many of the episodes, and Chabon, not Kurtzman, who has operated as the show's public figurehead.

Please, show me evidence that this is Kurtzman's vision.

Pretty sure I read an interview where they said ST: Picard was originally Kirsten Beyer's idea.

Although as Benign Overlord™ of the Star Trek Universe™, everything goes through him.

kurtzman is not capable of that kind of writing and story telling.

No text can survive a hostile reading, no show a hostile viewing.

You don't like Kurtzman, that's fine! I wasn't too fond of Rick Berman. Life goes on.

 

[1001001]

To be honest, though; this argument is done to death. It’s boring and repetitive...

That applies to 95% of the topics here.

 

[SJGardner]

Picard's best two moments in all of trek was in the measure of a man and yesterday's enterprise. kurtzman is not capable of that kind of writing and story telling.

And why does that matter? Neither Gene Roddenberry nor Maurice Hurley wrote and directed The Measure of a Man. Nor did Gene or Rick Berman write/direct Yesterday's Enterprise. If they had any substantial input on those episodes, they would've received story/writing credits at the very least.

 

[CaptainXaviOfEarth]

Kurtzman is also its biggest asset. Without him, CBS would have axed the entire revival.

 

[Spot261]

One episode.

So? I think the ones which are remembered in DS9 tend to be arc episodes anyway and there's a demonstratably huge market for such arcs amongst the fan base.

 

[Midquest]

the evidence lies in the other things he has written or was heavily involved in.

So there's no material evidence except subjective interpretation. OK.

Pretty sure I read an interview where they said ST: Picard was originally Kirsten Beyer's idea.

Good to know and not at all surprising.