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Spoilers Star Trek Beyond

Nice to see that the new films are making Enterprise almost part of a new cannon, so while it may not necessarily be considered cannon with the likes of TNG, DS9 and Voyager it still has continuity of its own with this universe (baring in mind Enterprise had it's fair share of future meddling thanks to the Temporal Cold War.

This is going to make rewatching Season 3 interesting... trying to spot any unnamed MACO crew member, who fits and could end up becoming this particular character from Beyond.

He was a Major by the founding of the Federation, and after the Romulan War they rewarded him a Captaincy. So taking part in the Xindi War, 7-8 years before that, could only really place them aboard the NX-01. He'd be of a lower rank at the time, subordinate to Major Hayes and Lieutenant Reed.

Yeah, obviously not going to find Idris Elba there in 2003/4. He was already a big deal in The Wire at the time!

Incidentally I think you could call what happens at the end of Season 2, an act of war. I mean we've been involved in a so called War on Terror for a while now... A military man who saw fighting off in a distant land, would call it like it is. Certainly the millions who lost family between Florida and Venezuela, could strongly claim it was a war.

I have been trying to think back to season 3, I have not yet got there in my re-watch yet but I cannot remember any other MACO officer being on Enterprise during the Xindi mission. If I recall correctly just before Major Hayes dies he named either a Sargent or a Corporal as his successor, which I assume meant there were no other MACO officers aboard and no mention of a new officer becoming CO in season 4. I know it's possible for a NCO to get a commission but I don't know how rare it is in modern military (I am thinking like this because I am seeing MACO's with more in common with modern military practices than anything else I have seen on trek).
 
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Well, I don't care much for Abramstrek but of the three movies this was the best one (faint praise to be sure). I did appreciate the ENT references even if I don't consider them part of the Prime timeline continuity (that's also how I deal with the abomination also known as TATV). The best part was that new chick that Pegg-Scott met.

Also, apparently Edison was aboard the NX-01 during the Xindi conflict, at least in the alternate timeline.
 
Well, I don't care much for Abramstrek but of the three movies this was the best one (faint praise to be sure).

It wasn't even that.

I did appreciate the ENT references

Yeah, I suppose so.

The best part was that new chick that Pegg-Scott met.

I liked her more than most of the rest of the cast.

Also, apparently Edison was aboard the NX-01 during the Xindi conflict, at least in the alternate timeline.

But still a character and motivation that really didn't work for me.

Still just a don't think about it much, big summer action movie with no more to it than the others.
 
Well, I hope I didn't come off as someone who appreciates Abramstrek. :rommie: Make no mistake, I certainly do not. :vulcan:

It was your usual mindless summer blockbuster. Compared with just the other two nuTrek movies, I think it was the least objectionable (Darkness was the worst).

My only hope is that it might have made the casual movie goer want to check out ENT, also considering Discovery coming out in January.
 
Kevin Nice to see you back posting again at Trek bbs. :bolian:I saw the movie yesterday. I really liked the Enterprise elements of the movie. I really enjoyed watching this one. I liked how Leonard Nimoy 's character was dealt with in the movie. This movie was certainly better than Star trek into darkness.
 
I'll just post some thoughts here, as there is so much traffic in the main Beyond review thread that it's easy to get overlooked. :)

Basically I was disappointed. Part of this was due to negative experience in the cinema - the screen was small and rather dim, and where I first sat smelled of feet. I moved to the front, which was better except for the green "Exit" sign glaring to my left. Perhaps for these reasons, it took a long while for me to start enjoying the movie.

The opening scene was supposed to be funny and scary, but I wasn't impressed, maybe because the comedy of the aliens undercut their scariness, and Pine flailing at CG figures was not very convincing.
Kirk's discussion with McCoy wasn't as heavy and theme-establishing as I thought it would be. The main beats were already in the trailer.
Despite the general praise, I was not particularly impressed by Yorktown. Perhaps it was better in 3D, but it should still work on a normal screen.

I only really got into the movie once the Enterprise was being attacked. The effects were really visceral and sold the drama. Sold it better than the actors, to be honest. The ship is being destroyed around them, and no-one looks more than somewhat worried (except Uhura).

What happened to the crew was unclear. From the damage, you'd assume that huge numbers died, but we are told the crew is being "taken". Later we only see maybe two dozen crew on the planet. Then it's unclear if the rescued crew go on the Franklin back to Yorktown. We never see them, except one dead redshirt who at first I thought might be Scotty.

Kirk really does not seem very upset by what happened to his ship and his crew. His lack of reaction is bizarre and undermines the drama of the plot.
As a number of people have observed, the action sequence that happens in the wreck of the Enterprise is very difficult to follow.
I wanted the Spock/McCoy scenes to be great, but was underwhelmed. The dialog felt forced, and I never really bought that they were in danger, even Spock with his wound.

Jaylah is certainly a cool character, but I wish they'd given more background to how she had survived, e.g. show old bones and a cooking pot, or sleeping quarters she has made into a nest.

My favourite part was just the characters talking on the Franklin. It made me realise one reason I like ENT is that the small ship size makes the relationships and dramatic moments more intimate and intense.

Krall is a crap villain. I don't care if it is Idris Elba, he just growls away being "evil", with no depth.
His plan doesn't make sense. Why did he lure and destroy the Enterprise? We can guess that he needs people to serve as "fuel" for his life-extending technology, but this is dealt with in a blink-and-miss-it way. He doesn't need the Enterprise in order to attack Yorktown. In fact, if he didn't bother trapping the Enterprise, his attack on Yorktown would probably have succeeded with no problems.

The climax, from Sabotage to showdown at Yorktown, was okay, but sometimes I was seeing stuff move around the screen with no idea what was going on.

THEMES
What is the movie about? If you've seen the trailer moments, and read the interviews, you'll have guessed it's about unity. Kirk and Spock are doubting their mission. Krall says "Unity is not your strength, it is your weakness." The heroes get together and beat Krall.
But as for the idea that this movie represents some sort of call for unity at a time of conflict, that doesn't really stand up:

  • Do our heroes fall into Krall's trap because they are disunited? No, that has nothing to do with it.
  • Do they learn lessons about how they are stronger together than apart? No. It's true Spock survives thanks to McCoy, but this seems incidental and is not made a big deal of.
  • Do our heroes work together at the end? Of course, but this is no different to what they've always done.
  • Is the theme addressed in the way the plot points are wrapped up? No. Kirk rejects the Vice Admiral position because it "doesn't sound like fun." Spock sees a pic of Spock Prime with his crew, but I can imagine that actually being an argument for leaving Enterprise ("He has already lived this life; I must follow my own path").
  • The big three are looking forward to exploring what's "out there", but unity and togetherness don't get a look-in.

It's odd, because Lin deliberately echoes the composition of an early scene, when Kirk and Spock are both thinking of leaving, and Kirk says, uncertainly, "We make a good team, don't we?"
Lin echoes this scene visually at the end, but the words are just general pleasantries. I wish they'd had this exchange:

SPOCK: We make a good team, do we not?
KIRK : [smiles] I believe we do.

That would have underlined the supposed theme of the movie, clarified why Kirk and Spock are staying on Enterprise, AND been a great character moment.

Overall, my reaction is one of sadness at so much potential squandered. In terms of dramatic interest, thematic interest, and character moments, this seems the least of the three Nu movies.
But I am looking forward to watching my own copy at home, with better conditions than in the cinema, and hopefully finding a bit more depth and enjoyment in the movie.
 
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Krall is a crap villain. I don't care if it is Idris Elba, he just growls away being "evil", with no depth. His plan doesn't make sense. Why did he lure and destroy the Enterprise? We can guess that he needs people to serve as "fuel" for his life-extending technology, but this is dealt with in a blink-and-miss-it way. He doesn't need the Enterprise in order to attack Yorktown. In fact, if he didn't bother trapping the Enterprise, his attack on Yorktown would probably have succeeded with no problems.
Krall lured in the Enterprise because he needed the Abronath.

You can pick apart any movie. Sometimes the mood you're in when viewing a film greatly affects how much you like or dislike what you're seeing. It's not a perfect film. I give it a C+/B- but I feel like you're being a little cynical towards it. It's for sure an upgrade over Into Darkness.
 
I'll just post some thoughts here, as there is so much traffic in the main Beyond review thread that it's easy to get overlooked. :)

Basically I was disappointed. Part of this was due to negative experience in the cinema - the screen was small and rather dim, and where I first sat smelled of feet. I moved to the front, which was better except for the green "Exit" sign glaring to my left. Perhaps for these reasons, it took a long while for me to start enjoying the movie.

The opening scene was supposed to be funny and scary, but I wasn't impressed, maybe because the comedy of the aliens undercut their scariness, and Pine flailing at CG figures was not very convincing.
Kirk's discussion with McCoy wasn't as heavy and theme-establishing as I thought it would be. The main beats were already in the trailer.
Despite the general praise, I was not particularly impressed by Yorktown. Perhaps it was better in 3D, but it should still work on a normal screen.

I only really got into the movie once the Enterprise was being attacked. The effects were really visceral and sold the drama. Sold it better than the actors, to be honest. The ship is being destroyed around them, and no-one looks more than somewhat worried (except Uhura).

What happened to the crew was unclear. From the damage, you'd assume that huge numbers died, but we are told the crew is being "taken". Later we only see maybe two dozen crew on the planet. Then it's unclear if the rescued crew go on the Franklin back to Yorktown. We never see them, except one dead redshirt who at first I thought might be Scotty.

Kirk really does not seem very upset by what happened to his ship and his crew. His lack of reaction is bizarre and undermines the drama of the plot.
As a number of people have observed, the action sequence that happens in the wreck of the Enterprise is very difficult to follow.
I wanted the Spock/McCoy scenes to be great, but was underwhelmed. The dialog felt forced, and I never really bought that they were in danger, even Spock with his wound.

Jaylah is certainly a cool character, but I wish they'd given more background to how she had survived, e.g. show old bones and a cooking pot, or sleeping quarters she has made into a nest.

My favourite part was just the characters talking on the Franklin. It made me realise one reason I like ENT is that the small ship size makes the relationships and dramatic moments more intimate and intense.

Krall is a crap villain. I don't care if it is Idris Elba, he just growls away being "evil", with no depth.
His plan doesn't make sense. Why did he lure and destroy the Enterprise? We can guess that he needs people to serve as "fuel" for his life-extending technology, but this is dealt with in a blink-and-miss-it way. He doesn't need the Enterprise in order to attack Yorktown. In fact, if he didn't bother trapping the Enterprise, his attack on Yorktown would probably have succeeded with no problems.

The climax, from Sabotage to showdown at Yorktown, was okay, but sometimes I was seeing stuff move around the screen with no idea what was going on.

THEMES
What is the movie about? If you've seen the trailer moments, and read the interviews, you'll have guessed it's about unity. Kirk and Spock are doubting their mission. Krall says "Unity is not your strength, it is your weakness." The heroes get together and beat Krall.
But as for the idea that this movie represents some sort of call for unity at a time of conflict, that doesn't really stand up:

  • Do our heroes fall into Krall's trap because they are disunited? No, that has nothing to do with it.
  • Do they learn lessons about how they are stronger together than apart? No. It's true Spock survives thanks to McCoy, but this seems incidental and is not made a big deal of.
  • Do our heroes work together at the end? Of course, but this is no different to what they've always done.
  • Is the theme addressed in the way the plot points are wrapped up? No. Kirk rejects the Vice Admiral position because it "doesn't sound like fun." Spock sees a pic of Spock Prime with his crew, but I can imagine that actually being an argument for leaving Enterprise ("He has already lived this life; I must follow my own path").
  • The big three are looking forward to exploring what's "out there", but unity and togetherness don't get a look-in.

It's odd, because Lin deliberately echoes the composition of an early scene, when Kirk and Spock are both thinking of leaving, and Kirk says, uncertainly, "We make a good team, don't we?"
Lin echoes this scene visually at the end, but the words are just general pleasantries. I wish they'd had this exchange:

SPOCK: We make a good team, do we not?
KIRK : [smiles] I believe we do.

That would have underlined the supposed theme of the movie, clarified why Kirk and Spock are staying on Enterprise, AND been a great character moment.

Overall, my reaction is one of sadness at so much potential squandered. In terms of dramatic interest, thematic interest, and character moments, this seems the least of the three Nu movies.
But I am looking forward to watching my own copy at home, with better conditions than in the cinema, and hopefully finding a bit more depth and enjoyment in the movie.
I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I think this film has a lot more depth than its given credit for.
 
Krall lured in the Enterprise because he needed the Abronath.
I totally forgot about that. The all-powerful weapon which the ancients sent into space for future fetchquests rather that, I dunno, actually destroying it. In the scene at the beginning, how did anyone know to call it part of a weapon? If it was genuinely part of a weapon, shouldn't Starfleet have analysed and maybe contained it?
Given the placement of the air con unit, Krall could have just destroyed it, or used a conventional poison.

It's not a perfect film. I give it a C+/B- but I feel like you're being a little cynical towards it. It's for sure an upgrade over Into Darkness.
I actually give Beyond the same score as you, but I'd give STID a B. Its plot was a mess in several respects, but compared to Beyond it had more emotional weight, better villains, a more exciting climax with a feeling of real danger, and (IMO) better themes (Kirk learning to act responsibly; the ease with which self-defence turns into war-mongering).

Also, I forgot to mention this before, but the climax of Beyond was basically the villain threatening Earth yet again, with Yorktown standing in for Earth. Structurally it actually echoed STID with the Franklin's crashlanding || Vengeance crashlanding in SF, and Kirk chasing down Krall || Spock chasing Khan.
 
Perhaps the weapon couldn't easily be destroyed. Evidently nobody really had any idea where the last piece of it was until Kirk presented it to the aliens at the beginning of the film, and I believe it's presented as essentially mythological at that point. Starfleet was in the process of analyzing it and containing it when the ship holding it was attacked.

I share the concern up above that maybe you don't like the film because you have no interest in liking the film.
 
Agreed, Beyond is easily the best NuTrek has offered us although that doesn't say much. It speaks more about the mediocrity of the previous films than the excellence of this one.
I was quite upset when the first Abramstrek movie came out, but I've resigned now to think of them as something existing outside the real Trek I know (ignoring whatever bridge they tried to make with Nero and Spock Prime). In my mind these movies "don't really exist". They're somewhat akin to the Mirror Universe. These movies could be your average sci-fi stories with just some simple name changes of people and places.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :vulcan:
 
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I share the concern up above that maybe you don't like the film because you have no interest in liking the film.
I wanted to like it, but it just wasn't good enough. I like some of Lin's F&F movies, I like Simon Pegg, the "frontier pushing back" concept sounded great, but the movie was just fluff.

I feel like some of the praise this film is getting is just from people riding an emotional wave. Reacting against STID, and wanting so much for this film to be good. So many A's and A+'s in the main grading thread! When some time has passed I think we'll see the general assessment of Beyond reduce to something a bit more reasonable.
 
Well, I guess our opinions just differ. That's okay.
I just want to be clear that I don't (as far as I know) have any sort of agenda behind my opinion.
 
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