Star Trek Beyond In Prime Universe

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by USS Excelsior, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's just recasting. No big deal. :shrug:
     
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  2. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Thing is, there are certain loose rules for recasting in fictional universes: If the continuity stays the same but an actor changes, it's "just recasting" - the role is supposed to be "the same character". If it's a reboot, the new cast is usually accepted as this universes "real" version, aka a new interpretation. If it's a parallel universe, it's again slightly different, in that it can be either the "original" character (but different), or an actual "new" character, that's an alternate version of the "old" character.

    Since this movie couldn't really decide wether it wanted to be a prequel/sequel or an actual reboot, their actor/character relationships are muddied as well.

    As was hopefully clear from my original post: This is only a very minor issue, and for the enjoyment of the movie itself it's in all fairness pretty meaningless. But it is an issue when trying to put this movie in the larger continuity and context of the Star Trek universe, because it makes it's position in there very ambigious as well, and not in a good way. Some parts are supposed to be accepted one way (oldSpock), others definitely different (PeggScotty).

    Still - just a very minor issue.
    But hell, what else are supposed to talk about a ten year old movie at this point after everything else had already been said multiple times...?
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Continuity is irrelevant in this case. Recasting is recasting, regardless of whether time travel is involved.

    I mean, Kirk was obviously going to be recast anyway, so what's the problem?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  4. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kirk never recognised Old Spock, he should have said 'Spock, what happened to you, why you look so old'??? ;)
    I'm still recognisable from my school pictures that are 43 years old
     
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  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yet Old Spock recognized Young Kirk and Scotty.

    Plus Kirk hardly spent any time with Spock at that point.
     
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  6. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Which Old Spock should have known, I think he had a touch of Bendi if he knew what stardate it was he would have remembered that Kirk was not captain until his 30's
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually we don't know when Kirk Prime became captain, only the years he commanded the Enterprise (and even then, no fixed start point). And Spock knows history has been rewritten.
     
  8. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All Old Spock knows is that he has gone back in time, he does not know what the changes are, so he would not assume that at age 25 Kirk is Captain of the Enterprise when he was not in his timeline. It would be an illogical deduction.
     
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He knows the crazy Romulan from his present was already waiting for him in the past and blew up Vulcan.

    Unless Nero told him the exact date, it's unlikely he knew until he began his mind meld with Kirk.
     
  10. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Well, he is emotionally compromised.
     
  11. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    True
     
  12. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Unrelated, but I've often wondered if this was a blunder by the producers. It feels like the whole 'make it a part of regular Trek as well as being a reboot' halfway house approach was absolutely a result of someone being scared that rebooting this crew would scare away the fan base so Nimoy and the plot twist were thrown in as a safety net, even though it makes very little difference, and they might as well have just rebooted the thing. Its the same Movie-Executive-Think that makes one shoehorn Shatner into TNG's first movie even though he's basically irrelevant to the movie at large, and the film would probably have been stronger on its own merits without him.
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    As much as I appreciate this point of view I also find it telling that Nimoy said yes to the script when he had said no to Generations. The cynic in me certainly tends towards feeling it as a blunder but there is a part of me would like to think that there is something more to the 09 script that Nimoy appreciated.
     
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  14. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    I thought the premise of 09 was a genius move to be honest, very clever and fresh, while still keeping the link to the older stuff. I loved it, and I think it's the strongest aspect of the movie, which I think is part of why the sequels struggled - they were 'just another star trek movie' whereas 09 felt like a major event.
     
  15. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Tbh I can't really fault that analysis ;) Trek '09 at least feels like a movie revelling in the chance to give a shot in the arm to both the franchise and to these particular characters; despite the choice to tie it to old Trek through Nimoy as Spock, this is presented as a contrast to the rest of the movie, enjoying the freedom of exploring these characters in new ways they'd previously not been able to. STID and BEY, however, follow that initial promise with a story about the most obvious villain they could've chosen and yet another evil rogue Admiral that must be stopped at all costs (yawn), and one that was in many ways a conscious love letter to 50 years of Star Trek on screens big and small. Neither of them had the ambition of the 2009 movie. Neither lived up to the promise, although they weren't bad Star Trek movies. They didn't need to be set in an alternative universe, both sequels could've been stories from practically any Star Trek.
     
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  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Into Darkness felt like another big "event" movie to me, and presumably others too since it has Trek's all-time highest gross.

    Beyond was fun, but really just another franchise movie in a world spammed with them.
     
  17. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

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    Beyond would've felt more an event if theyd used the Orci script :)
     
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  18. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

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    'Let it go, let it go...' :beer:
     
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  19. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

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    Beyond would've been laughed out of the cinema if they'd used the orci script.
     
  20. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

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    Absolutely! I'm wondering if we have to thank J-J- Abrams for that, tough. "Force Awakens" seem to suffer from the same indicisiveness - it couldn't decide wether it wanted to be essentially a reboot of the original Star Wars, a "next generation"-type of movie, or a continuation for the old crew. It started so strong with the words "Luke Skywalker has vanished" - only to completely sideline that interesting concept up until the very last minute of the movie, and swap over to a beat-for-beat remake.

    Well, as a critic of the Kelvin-timeline movies let me say: ST09 is a vastly superiour movie to Generations, in every aspect.

    Also, the writers of ST09 did the clever thing to lure Nimoy in, and give him lots and lots of interesting material. Sure, he was also the "oldguy exposition machine", like every senior actor in every franchise movie. But they essentially threw all the emotional scenes at him as well, he essentially had more meat to act than in any Trek movie before. That can to wonders to persuade actors.

    Wheras on Generations, they wanted him as essentially a glorified extra, basically just standing there while someone else does something, only so they can say he's in the movie. I totally get why he would reject that.
     
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