Star Trek Beyond In Prime Universe

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by USS Excelsior, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Location:
    earth...but when?...spock?
    pity it wasn't - might've made it more interesting had the Ent been flung into another galaxy billions of light years from Federation space and finds Edison on the planet and has to go up against him while trying to figure out how to get home Voyager style (was half expecting something like that with the title)
     
  2. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Burnham will argue that Krall shouldn't be stopped and has the right to exist and continue his vampire ways.

    Then she'll launch back into her "we are Starfleet" dribble.
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in its final stage
    If they were in TOS we wouldn't have had to wait for the shuttlebay to recompress.
     
  4. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Maybe the Constitution class was just too old to install a functional forcefield system.
     
    Lance and Nerys Myk like this.
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in its final stage
    The real reason of course is that they hadn't thought of it yet, and 50 years later Disco retconned the technology into the past of the Trekverse.
     
    Lance likes this.
  6. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    I know, and we'll probably see the Enterprise's hanger bay open with one when they exchange support craft.
     
  7. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    I guess it's the same problem as to what happens to NOMAD, the Doosmday Machine, V'Ger and the Whale Probe in the Kelvin timeline. Or why nothing on DIS looks like the same continuity as the USS Kelvin.

    Really, it's best to think of them as two completely seperated continuities with no connection whatsoever. (Which would make Nero, red matter, the destruction of Romulus and Old-Spock simply the alternate future of the Kelvin-timeline - a parrallel one to the prime one, but not the prime one)
     
    Longinus likes this.
  8. Yistaan

    Yistaan Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Too bad the movie material and tv material are tied up in separate rights issues, otherwise I wouldn't mind the Discovery facing down the Prime version of Krall, or have Mirror Empress Georgiou report to Prime Admiral Marcus in her new position as a Section 31 operative.
     
    Markonian likes this.
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in its final stage
    Fixed that for you.
     
  10. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    While the visuals are COMPLETELY off the mark - the whole DIS continuity only works with TOS as a backdrop. Of course that isn't mutual - in fact TOS on it's own works a LOT better without Spock having a human sister in Starfleet or a klingon war gone horrible wrong just 10 years earlier. But between the two, there is a very clear story connection.

    The Kelvin timeline doesn't have that, though. The Narada and Kelvin are clearly not prime-universe ships, and there are the instances where OldSpock immediately recognizes PineKirk and PeggScotty, - but also the direct contrast in Beyond where they showed a promo picture for Star Trek VI.

    It's... really muddy at this point. And not a good testament to the work of the people currently in charge of the franchise.
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in its final stage
    They're as much Primeverse ships as the Klingon fleet in Discovery.
     
  12. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    That is.... not at all.
    But again - so far, on DIS it's the VISUALS that are completely off - not the narrative or universe mechanics behind it. Visually, those klingons and their ships are incompatible with the prime universe, as is their Disco-Enterprise for that matter. But, with them telling us all the time it's "100% complete prime" - it's still closer to the prime universe, if only so on a narrative level.
     
  13. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    Khan 2.0 likes this.
  14. jaime

    jaime Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Location:
    London
    The picture is from V.
    I say this, because I love making sure V cannot be stricken from canon by people who keep the KT in there. XD
     
  15. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    I kinda' like Star Trek V.:guffaw:
    It's complete, utter schlock. But the character scenes (especially Kirk, Spock and McCoy singing "row, row, row your boat") are IMO worth the existence of the movie, and there are a lot of great memorable lines and images in this movie (what does god need a starship for?). I mean, yeah, it's not good in any way. But I like it, like the more campy TOS episodes. I prefer schlock-y fun over dour "seriousness" in Star Trek any day.
     
    werdegast likes this.
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    :shrug:Clearly?
     
    grendelsbayne likes this.
  17. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Yeah. While the Narada is an absolutely cool and unique design - it's pretty obvious it doesn't work as a simple "Romulan Mining vessel" from the TNG movies era. The "Countdown" comic explained the difference as it being a "Borgified" vessel - which, honestly, is a bit fanwank-y even for a non-canon comic. Also it was heavily involving Picard and the Enterprise of the time, I'm pretty sure the upcoming Picard show is pretty much destined to directly contradict these events.

    Don't get me wrong - out of all the big, dumb, black evil starships in Star Trek movies (Borg cube, Shinzon's Scimitar, the Narada, Admiral Marcus' "Vengeance"), the Narada (and the Borg cube) are actually genuine great designs, and I really wouldn't want to change the Narada's design for a "pime-universe-fitting" design - so much of ST09's visual appeal would be lost. But still - in my opinion the Kelvin timeline really work best in a completely seperated continuity from the prime universe, standing on their own feet and being their own thing.
     
  18. Nyotarules

    Nyotarules Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Location:
    London
    For me the movie would not have been spoilt if TOSSpock on meeting KelvinKirk said, 'Lieutenant George Kirk, I presume' and PineKirk responding, 'I'm James Kirk not George, who the hell are you?'
    ST2009 would still work if it all took place in another universe ala Parallels style rather than a different branch of the Prime timeline. Oh well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2018
    Rahul likes this.
  19. Rahul

    Rahul Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    Yeah, there were a lot of inconsistencies in details. The movie expects us to accept that young Kirk looked like Chris Pine to the point of NimoySpock not seeing a difference, and that he will grow old into the body of TOSmovie ShatnerKirk (two different actors playing the same role at different ages - pretty usual stuff for Hollywood). But at the same time, this nuKirk was a completely different human being, born under different circumstances, and having completely different life experiences and being essentially a different character. That coincidentally re-aligns with the "traditional" charactersiation by the time of "Beyond", even though he took a completely different path getting there.

    In retrospect, I would have prefered it if the movie was either a strict prequel (ignoring all visual differences), ar a complete, honest reboot. The sort of middle-of-the-road apporach really muddies the waters, and makes it hard to sort the trilogy into the pre-existing continuity in a meaningfull way.

    That being said, I'm glad that they tried to tell an interesting story first and foremost, and really didn't focus too much time on the reboot/sequel&prequel classification, and instead handwaved it away to focus on creating compelling characters and adventures first. They did that. And even if I want to "excise" these movies from the prime Trek continuity (only those few tidbits that are supposed to be "prime") for general worldbuilding reasons, I'm still glad the movies overall exist in the real world and to have watched them.
     
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    The Narada is a question mark in terms of design, but since we've never seen a Romulan mining vessel I gave it a pass. I don't care about the Borg explanation.

    The Kelvin itself fits well in the ship design of the Prime Universe.


    That is a conceit of every parallel universe story though.