Spoilers STAR TREK BEYOND - Grading & Discussion

[drt]

Good point about the Enterprise crew. Makes great sense. They needed the Enterprise for its technology. A skeleton crew would've been plenty. That idea will become part of my personal canon for the movie.

I don't recall seeing a huge number of escape pods leave the saucer, but the bridge crew stated that the saucer had been completely cleared before they took to the Kelvin pods, so it didn't seem like her crew was super huge.

 

[BigJake]

*Spock and Uhura having a child, since we're would see how they balance careers and children. No doubt, they'll have Sulu as an example of how to do that.

I would *love* to see their kid in the mix if they ever get round to rebooting the "next generation." Their kid will be amazing.

 

[Trekfan12]

The Kelvin had 800; presumably the nuEnt has upward of 1000-1200. The number that survived was small enough to be beamed to the Franklin in groups of 20 while Kirk sped around on the motorcycle (so, under 200, probably).

I saw the movie today. I was wondering how many crew were on the Enterprise and how many survived the carnage. I hope the next movie doesn't destroy the Enterprise, the poor girl has been through enough hell.

 

[Trekfan12]

Anyone think that the time lapse of the Ent-A being constructed was really cool?

I wonder how long it takes to build a starship?

 

[Tosk]

I hope the next movie doesn't destroy the Enterprise, the poor girl has been through enough hell.

She's dead now, no more pain where she is.

 

[indranee]

I don't have a problem suspending disbelief with a bit of fanciful science fiction. I do have an issue with something demonstrably idiotic using even basic science.

How many of you would have been happy with Scotty stating, 'Aye Cap'n, but we'll need to sprinkle magic pixie dust on the warp core before she'll start !'.

I thought that WAS what dilithium crystals are...

 

[TPX101x]

First post, yay! I watched this movie last night and I must say, I enjoyed it. Even my partner who is non-Trek fan somewhat enjoyed it.

I was perplexed by the Franklin, did Scotty say she was the first warp 4 ship? If so, what of NX-01? Seems like a retrograde if that's the case.

Anyway, I hope there will be more films, even though with Anton Yelchin's untimely passing.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Pappy Archer spent over 30 years trying to build the Warp 5 engine.

Even when he did, at first it could only go warp 3ish.

"it's only a warp 5 engine on paper."

The Boomer fleet was still going at warp one, and Star Fleet was still locked into the Solar System.

Terra Nova was a massive mystery because no earth ship was fast enough to get there in less than 2 decades.

My new theory, is that the Franklin Broke Warp four and was then mothballed into a museum, until the Vulcans allowed earth to send ships out into free space at speeds greater than Warp 1.2.

 

[bhldev]

Speaking of Gene Roddenberry, I spent the whole movie going, "Look at all these ZIPPERS! This would have driven Gene crazy!" Seriously, half the costumes seemed to have big, chunky zippers on them -- not to mention the fact that the new crew uniforms (which I like a lot better than the ones from the previous two films) had zippers up the back -- "Uh, Spock, could you do me up the back, please? Thanks."

The shot of Kirk opening his closet and seeing ten of the same yellow zipper uniform as a metaphor for his disillusionment in space -- perfect

The more I think about this movie the more I see all the little things matter... Kirk and McCoy talking over scotch, Kirk realizing that shuttling ambassadors and artifacts around for three years isn't what he wants the rest of his life, Elba's look at the glass... we can reasonably assume between ST:ID and ST:B Kirk did the (extremely) mundane for three years and wanted out.

Maybe, the only thing missing is Krall trying to "turn" Kirk... he read Kirk's logs, maybe he knows he wants to transfer to Vice Admiral have him and Kirk walking around a circular dais staring each other down (with the Arbonath in the center) and Krall offers Kirk the life he thought he was getting when he went from Cadet to Captain...

 

[Claudia]

Saw it yesterday - and while it was a good movie, it felt a bit like Star Wars with ST-injokes. But I'm glad I managed to avoid practically all spoilers (except for the Sulu-one which is to me a non-issue).

The good:

* the characterization and the humour
* the handling of Spock Prime's death - loved it. But, was this planned from the get-go, or inserted after Nimoy's death?
* also liked the "in loving memory of LN" resp "for Anton" without any music after the main credits.
* Spock and Bones - that was missing in the first 2 movies.

The so-so:

* the story - predictable (how many times, even in TOS, have we seen a stranded officer turn evil?) and lacking any depth... not to mention that SF acts a bit naively in just sending their best ship into an unknown and unpredictable area just out of the good of their hearts
* the 3D/action-sequences - honestly, sometimes I could have used a barf-bag or at least a travel-gum because the camera movement was quite erratic. At other moments the cinematography was really stunning (the way the bees attacked and damaged Enterprise for example, or Yorktown - Inception anyone?). So I don't regret watching it in 3D, but a more steady camera-handling would have been appreciated
* poor Enterprise - parallels to the old movies, being badly damaged in the 2nd and outright destroyed in the 3rd.

The bad:

* Just how many of Kirk's midlife-crises are we expected to suffer through? He's just about 30 years old... And/or Spock's? I mean if it's about creating little Vulcans, then there are other ways than resigning and moving to New Vulcan - even today, especially for males.
* I still don't feel any chemistry between Spock and Uhura - granted, their scenes were nice and meant to be touching... but they simply don't manage to actually touch me
* a bit too much of funny Scotty for my taste
* Krall - 2-dimensional... even Khan or Marcus were better explored in Into Darkness than he was here.
* the Warp 4 engine was built in the 2160s? Continuity anyone? Enterprise had a warp 5 engine and was launched in 2151... and that timeline wasn't erased...

BTW, I'd have hoped for some kind of referrals to Into Darkness, such as when they discussed dying, Kirk could have made a flip-remark about "been there, done that", or what about Carol Marcus? And what about that 3rd glass of Scotch (which seemed like a kind of ritual for Kirk and Bones)? Did that refer to Pike? Or Kirk's father? Or the Kelvin in general?

Overall, Into Darkness had its flaws, definitely. It was a rip-off and Khan was ill-used there (the too many villains problem, I guess). But it carried some emotional punch, nonetheless (Pike!!). Which this movie didn't. Unfortunately. It's still a reasonably good movie, though, but nothing more.

 

[KGator]

They never said. One of the promotional websites for the 2009 movie said she had a crew of 1100. Even if they went with the TOS 400 crew, I must admit I wonder how all the survivors fitted into the tiny USS Franklin!

For some reason, I was thinking in the 400s like TOS. If they went with the JJverse numbers . . . the loss of life in this movie for the Enterprise crew was truly staggering.

When Kirk was chasing Krall I remember thinking "Why don't they just transport Kirk to the top of the building where Krall is?". I guess the next logical conclusion would be . . . why not transport an entire security team up there too, or transport Krall directly into a detainment cell . . . but that ruins the story doesn't it!!!

I guess I have become so used to the implausible that I didn't give much thought to the idea of a ship left derelict for hundreds of years could just be put back together using scrap parts from alien technology and work pretty darn well. I was more interested in why the Enterprise's sensors didn't pick up any of the lifeforms of the stragglers from other crews (hell, there were enough that Scotty just happened upon 4 of them) and no detection of all the ships that had crashed before the Enterprise. I guess sensors just ain't what they used to be!!!

 

[SalvorHardin]

They never said. One of the promotional websites for the 2009 movie said she had a crew of 1100. Even if they went with the TOS 400 crew, I must admit I wonder how all the survivors fitted into the tiny USS Franklin!

Maybe the upgraded the Enterprise with some of that USS Vengeance automation tech and they need less than 100.

One other thought. Maybe Kirk just didn't take the full crew for the rescue mission. He could have just taken the minimum necessary number, leaving most of them on Yorktown to enjoy their much needed vacation.

 

[BillJ]

One other thought. Maybe Kirk just didn't take the full crew for the rescue mission. He could have just taken the minimum necessary number, leaving most of them on Yorktown to enjoy their much needed vacation.

Pretty much how I feel. They went with a couple hundred essential personnel.

 

[Search4]

Just why did it need to reach terminal velocity ?

On second thoughts, don't. I did this after ST2009 - spent ages discussing ways that plot stupidity could be explained away. Consider it explained away...

Or... In the 100 years more ships crashed and were salvaged by J.

 

[Franklin]

Ready to see it again this weekend. I think some things will become clearer to me. That said, I really found a disconnect between the opening McCoy-Kirk scene and the rest of the movie. Don't know why. Have to figure that out. I think the idea of him having to find his own way and live up to his own standards seems to have gotten lost somewhere in the rest of the story. Kind of a mixed message. He's just become older than his dad became. What's worse, his birthday is the day his dad died. That could hit any son hard. Was it hard every year? Or just especially hard this one? Did this help create the ennui Kirk was feeling, or in any case, did deep space turn out to be less exciting than he hoped for (episodic, at best)? An introspective Captain Kirk is fine, great even. A bored or confused one is something we've not really met, before (at least not at 35, his prime, with his career still ahead of him). The great Captain Kirk is tired of warping through space and can't even make through his first five-year mission? That's a big deal. He's ready for a desk job? Actually put in for one? Wow.

In the TMP novelization as I remember it, Kirk said the accounts of his adventures had become exaggerated. The mission was really more mundane and routine than that. Maybe that's what Pegg and Jung were trying to convey. Every day is not an adventure. It's wrong to expect it. It can be a gut drop.

Maybe the sudden loss of the Enterprise on a pretty routine mission for that ship and crew may have shocked him into realizing how much he really loved it, or snapped him back to himself, but I don't recall that feeling being conveyed on screen. (I guess for Kirk it's like the song says, "Don't it always seem to go, that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.")

 

[Lakenheath 72]

There is an article about a fan who was an extra on the quarry set at TrekCore. She posted a photo of the extras. I counted 42 in the photo, so 42 would be the minimum of Enterprise survivors.

I was shocked by the number of Enterprise bridge crew members (this is based off the end credits and the list at IMDB) - 21 crew members. This is a record for any Starfleet ship that we have seen.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Saw it yesterday - and while it was a good movie, it felt a bit like Star Wars with ST-injokes. But I'm glad I managed to avoid practically all spoilers (except for the Sulu-one which is to me a non-issue).

The bad:

* Just how many of Kirk's midlife-crises are we expected to suffer through? He's just about 30 years old... And/or Spock's? I mean if it's about creating little Vulcans, then there are other ways than resigning and moving to New Vulcan - even today, especially for males.

Unfortunately, this is movie trope, not just in Star Trek. The feeling seems to be that to wrangle a character arc of weight out of a story that is episodic by nature (you see this a lot in superhero stories too), someone must be contemplating quitting the identity that makes them the hero of the story. But this didn't particularly feel earned for Kirk or Spock. But honestly, this Kirk is wildly underdeveloped. They hinted at some better material around his emotional core in this film - but then pretty much left it on the table with that extra glass of scotch.

* I still don't feel any chemistry between Spock and Uhura - granted, their scenes were nice and meant to be touching... but they simply don't manage to actually touch me

They've never managed to stir any sense of actual love or heat. Quinto is pretty asexual as Spock, which is the only complaint I have about his portrayal. With Nimoy, in he early years anyway, you had a sense of barely restrained passion waiting to burst forth at any moment except for his exceptional will power to control it.

* Krall - 2-dimensional... even Khan or Marcus were better explored in Into Darkness than he was here.

I've come to expect nothing from ST movie villains. And this one weirdly inverted a key theme of TOS - that struggle makes sentient beings strong and creative. I'd have rather heard some debate over whether how to use struggle effectively - for creation or destruction. But no time for debate in a movie! Action, action, action!

How I long for one true Kirk moment of kicking ass, then throwing down his weapon and extending his hand in compassion. But this Kirk doesn't have that depth even in this movie.

 

[Kemaiku]

Nope. protomatter.

Pixie dust just means they're shedding, I wouldn't breathe that stuff in.

 

[Franklin]

Unfortunately, this is movie trope, not just in Star Trek. The feeling seems to be that to wrangle a character arc of weight out of a story that is episodic by nature (you see this a lot in superhero stories too), someone must be contemplating quitting the identity that makes them the hero of the story. But this didn't particularly feel earned for Kirk or Spock. But honestly, this Kirk is wildly underdeveloped. They hinted at some better material around his emotional core in this film - but then pretty much left it on the table with that extra glass of scotch.



They've never managed to stir any sense of actual love or heat. Quinto is pretty asexual as Spock, which is the only complaint I have about his portrayal. With Nimoy, in he early years anyway, you had a sense of barely restrained passion waiting to burst forth at any moment except for his exceptional will power to control it.

I've come to expect nothing from ST movie villains. And this one weirdly inverted a key theme of TOS - that struggle makes sentient beings strong and creative. I'd have rather heard some debate over whether how to use struggle effectively - for creation or destruction. But no time for debate in a movie! Action, action, action!

How I long for one true Kirk moment of kicking ass, then throwing down his weapon and extending his hand in compassion. But this Kirk doesn't have that depth even in this movie.

I agree with a lot about what you said about Kirk in STB, although I thought his overall character development was going along great in these movies. However, I pretty much said above the same thing you did about the McCoy-Kirk scene at the beginning of the movie. The emotional payoff for that scene never came. Or if it did, I missed it.

I'm not sure this Kirk would go so far as to have killed the Gorn captain in "Arena", however (if that's what you're insinuating). He did try to talk to Edison at the end and reason with him. But Edison, kind of like when Kirk tried to save Krug from falling in TSFS, wanted nothing of it. In both cases, the writers had the villain turn down Kirk's attempt to save them, or at least give them a chance to save themselves.

I don't like to criticize a movie for not doing what I wanted, that's not fair, but if Edison had lived, I think it would've been more a poignant ending worthy of the Trek mythology. Living, he can't be ignored. He must be dealt with. He's an "uncomfortable" relic. Questions need to be asked and answered. Not all on screen, obviously, but with Edison alive, they have relevance. Who's to blame for what he became? He'd have been a living symbol of a time that cast him aside. He was a tragic man who did nothing more than his duty. Maybe he could finally get treatment he so badly needs, and maybe be rehabilitated within the context of how the Federation handles criminals in the 23rd century. Regardless of how he felt about the Federation and peace, there was nothing logical about his act -- even in that hateful context. It was desperate. It was irrational. It was terrorism. If he lived, then maybe he could've been saved from his demons. He could've finally been rescued. It would've turned out Kirk and his crew really were on a rescue mission after all. And Kirk and Spock also rescued themselves from their ennui and doubt. "Star Trek Rescue"

Or, Edison can be pulled out an air vent into space with his weapon and die. Case closed. Cut to birthday party.

Either way.

 

[SiddFinch1]

The best of the Nu-Trek trek movies. Not sure if the actors are growing on me or they are growing into their roles or better writing or less lens flares but the combo works. Felt like trek. The McCoy-Spock interplay worked well and Kirk felt closer to Kirk. Everyone had some good moments. The quibbles over plot holes were less than in the other by trek and frankly even movies I love have plot holes I can overlook