"Star Trek Begins" - The 'Origins' Film Discussion

[FederationHistorian]

How do they even define “Begins” anyway?

The Cage, WNMHGB, and the first several minutes of ST’09 are the beginning of Star Trek.

ENT started calling itself Star Trek in S3 &4. Before then, it was just plain Enterprise.

FC literally showed us first contact. And technically, so did “Little Green Men” in DS9.

So, frankly, IDK what it could be about.

The Earth-Kzin wars?
The formation of Section 31/Starfleet?
Earth ending war, poverty, hunger and disease once and for all?
The first colony/freighter ships that left Earth?
The journey of the SS Botany Bay (maybe explaining why Khan knows a Klingon proverb in TWOK)?
Development of the Warp Five Complex?
Cochrane’s interstellar expedition, from Earth to Alpha Centauri and beyond?

I can’t think of anything that’s based around humans and humanity.

Just like how ENT botched the formation of the Federation, no movie about the Romulan war is ever going to live up to fan expectations. There’s been almost 60 years of fans coming up with their own head-canon about the war, and anything the powers that be produce now will be completely different from how the people that actually want this will have envisioned it. Sure, that could be a good thing, maybe? Let’s just say I have my doubts. That’s why this ‘Star Trek origin story’ has little appeal for me.


Some things are just better left to people’s imaginations.

That’s the biggest issue with a Romulan War film. Whatever the studio comes up with won’t be as good as what fans would come up with.

So, if a Romulan War movie ever comes to theatres, expectations as a viewer has to be lowered going in.

My point was more that most of the show wasn’t about the formation of the Federation.

Yes, it was.

What do you think that arc with the Vulcans and Andorians were? Or humanity resolving its tense relationship with the Vulcans, and later aliens as a whole, was about?

The way the show went about the formation of the Federation was messy, but it does not mean that the way it was done was wrong. It was very much a show about the formation of the federation. It just had the TCW sprinkled all over the place, more than it ever should have.

Will the sequel be called "The Dark Matter Knight"?

Depends on if the movie after that is called “The Dark Matter Rises”.

 

[Mudd]

A YouTube figure many people here hate with a passion...

Nope. The phrase you want is not "hate," but "hold in contempt."

 

[Dukhat]

Yes, it was.

What do you think that arc with the Vulcans and Andorians were? Or humanity resolving its tense relationship with the Vulcans, and later aliens as a whole, was about?

The way the show went about the formation of the Federation was messy, but it does not mean that the way it was done was wrong. It was very much a show about the formation of the federation. It just had the TCW sprinkled all over the place, more than it ever should have.

Go back and re-read what I wrote. I said that in spite of having those elements, the producers of the show were more interested in showing the crew in their underwear, showing T'Pol's descent into masseusehood, etc. than showing the formation of the Federation. UPN even wanted boy bands playing every week! WTF does that have to do with the formation of the Federation? UPN's priorities for the show were not remotely the same as what the show was advertised as being about.

 

[The Wormhole]

https://archive.org/details/star-trek-the-beginning-unproduced/mode/1up

If anybody wants to kill waste the rest of their afternoon and read the script to Star Trek: The Beginning, there it is.

I'm good, thank you.

But seriously, I read a synopsis of it back in 2007 or so. Terrible.

 

[HotRod]

I'm good, thank you.

But seriously, I read a synopsis of it back in 2007 or so. Terrible.

It's so much worse than the synopsis lets on. parts of it feel like a direct rip off of Pearl Harbor.

 

[The Wormhole]

parts of it feel like a direct rip off of Pearl Harbor.

Hey, that movie had weight. Which is why it sank at the box office.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Nope. The phrase you want is not "hate," but "hold in contempt."

At this point, I just laugh at him.

 

[evilchumlee]

How do they even define “Begins” anyway?

The Earth-Kzin wars?
The formation of Section 31/Starfleet?
Earth ending war, poverty, hunger and disease once and for all?
The first colony/freighter ships that left Earth?
The journey of the SS Botany Bay (maybe explaining why Khan knows a Klingon proverb in TWOK)?
Development of the Warp Five Complex?
Cochrane’s interstellar expedition, from Earth to Alpha Centauri and beyond?

I can’t think of anything that’s based around humans and humanity.

Aside from the Earth-Kzin Wars, which really just don't make any sense at all in the context of established lore, those could all be legit "beginning points"... I just question which of them could be suitable for a mass market movie? Especially under the "Star Trek" banner, ESPECIALLY if they aren't treating it as a total reboot and actually try to fit into anything established.

The formation of Starfleet would be uneventful. We've seen very early Starfleet in ENT "First Flight". It's really just a fairly small organization testing out warp engines.

First colony ships could be interesting... there's certainly stories that could be told, but by and large I feel like that's a bit niche.

Journey of the Botany Bay... sure, but again, incredibly niche for anyone but the most die hard of Trek fans.

Development of Warp 5 Complex? Again neat, but... is there a movie there?

Cochrane's expedition... probably the most viable option, or at least something similar. Maybe instead of Cochrane personally, they do the first ACTUAL manned warp vessel with a crew heading out. I still think the stories would be somewhat limited, but there are certainly things they could do with it.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Go back and re-read what I wrote. I said that in spite of having those elements, the producers of the show were more interested in showing the crew in their underwear, showing T'Pol's descent into masseusehood, etc. than showing the formation of the Federation. UPN even wanted boy bands playing every week! WTF does that have to do with the formation of the Federation? UPN's priorities for the show were not remotely the same as what the show was advertised as being about.

• They still needed to create “primitive” settings and characterizations, to help viewers understand the context of the Federation’s founding. You are free to debate if they did the “primitive” settings and characterizations well.

• T’Pol’s "descent into masseusehood" was actually very important:

• If Trip can’t do his job in keeping the ship running because he cannot sleep, the Xindi mission fails or Archer unnecessarily dies. Meaning no Federation, as there’s no Earth, and/or the only guy would can bring the other founding species together is not around.

• Also, the relationship that develops between T’Pol and Trip paves the way for Spock and other like him to be born. Considering how iconic and consequential Spock is, this it the origins story about how to get that point.

• Even with the boy bands idea, there are ways it could have worked. Which was discussed on the ENT board.

Aside from the Earth-Kzin Wars, which really just don't make any sense at all in the context of established lore, those could all be legit "beginning points"... I just question which of them could be suitable for a mass market movie? Especially under the "Star Trek" banner, ESPECIALLY if they aren't treating it as a total reboot and actually try to fit into anything established.

The formation of Starfleet would be uneventful. We've seen very early Starfleet in ENT "First Flight". It's really just a fairly small organization testing out warp engines.

First colony ships could be interesting... there's certainly stories that could be told, but by and large I feel like that's a bit niche.

Journey of the Botany Bay... sure, but again, incredibly niche for anyone but the most die hard of Trek fans.

Development of Warp 5 Complex? Again neat, but... is there a movie there?

Cochrane's expedition... probably the most viable option, or at least something similar. Maybe instead of Cochrane personally, they do the first ACTUAL manned warp vessel with a crew heading out. I still think the stories would be somewhat limited, but there are certainly things they could do with it.

They could probably incorporate all of the above ideas into a Cochrane movie.

The one flaw with focusing on the first manned crew will be fans going “why haven’t we heard of these people before?” like how Archer and his crew were treated. Unless there are plans to ignore such concerns.

 

[evilchumlee]

The one flaw with focusing on the first manned crew will be fans going “why haven’t we heard of these people before?” like how Archer and his crew were treated. Unless there are plans to ignore such concerns.

That's the issue with the constant obsession with doing prequels. Like sure, there definitely WERE earlier voyages of warp ships. They just... probably weren't really all that interesting? Yeah Cochrane went to Alpha Centauri. And... found a planet. And was like "Hey, look at that planet!", went home and was like "We should totally build more warp engines!", and they did, and eventually Cochrane was like "I'm gonna go LIVE in Alpha Centauri", and then he did.

It's all pretty mundane. It would be like making a movie about a random astronaut on the space station today. Like... it's cool, it's neat but... there's not exactly a ton going on. They're up there doing... science stuff.

*Old Movie Trailer Voice In a world, where humanity takes their first steps into the stars, watch as the inventor of warp drive, Zephram Cochrane, goes where no man has gone before... Alpha Centauri. Watch as he does such thrilling things like taking scans of the atmosphere of a planet to determine if the air is breathable. Marvel at him landing on the planet and taking soil samples, while making a map! But exploration is dangerous. When his warp core begins to go critical, Cochrane must act fast or be stranded forever... and he does, and everything is totally fine in the end.

 

[Dukhat]

• They still needed to create “primitive” settings and characterizations, to help viewers understand the context of the Federation’s founding. You are free to debate if they did the “primitive” settings and characterizations well.

• T’Pol’s "descent into masseusehood" was actually very important:

• If Trip can’t do his job in keeping the ship running because he cannot sleep, the Xindi mission fails or Archer unnecessarily dies. Meaning no Federation, as there’s no Earth, and/or the only guy would can bring the other founding species together is not around.

• Also, the relationship that develops between T’Pol and Trip paves the way for Spock and other like him to be born. Considering how iconic and consequential Spock is, this it the origins story about how to get that point.

• Even with the boy bands idea, there are ways it could have worked. Which was discussed on the ENT board.

Yeah, no. None of that is remotely convincing to me that it helped ENT be a legitimate show about the founding of the Federation. You want to see a show about successful empire-building? Watch Babylon 5.

 

[fireproof78]

*Old Movie Trailer Voice In a world, where humanity takes their first steps into the stars, watch as the inventor of warp drive, Zephram Cochrane, goes where no man has gone before... Alpha Centauri. Watch as he does such thrilling things like taking scans of the atmosphere of a planet to determine if the air is breathable. Marvel at him landing on the planet and taking soil samples, while making a map! But exploration is dangerous. When his warp core begins to go critical, Cochrane must act fast or be stranded forever... and he does, and everything is totally fine in the end.

Sounds like Voyager and their obsession with using their tricorders.

 

[FederationHistorian]

That's the issue with the constant obsession with doing prequels. Like sure, there definitely WERE earlier voyages of warp ships. They just... probably weren't really all that interesting? Yeah Cochrane went to Alpha Centauri. And... found a planet. And was like "Hey, look at that planet!", went home and was like "We should totally build more warp engines!", and they did, and eventually Cochrane was like "I'm gonna go LIVE in Alpha Centauri", and then he did.

It's all pretty mundane. It would be like making a movie about a random astronaut on the space station today. Like... it's cool, it's neat but... there's not exactly a ton going on. They're up there doing... science stuff.

*Old Movie Trailer Voice In a world, where humanity takes their first steps into the stars, watch as the inventor of warp drive, Zephram Cochrane, goes where no man has gone before... Alpha Centauri. Watch as he does such thrilling things like taking scans of the atmosphere of a planet to determine if the air is breathable. Marvel at him landing on the planet and taking soil samples, while making a map! But exploration is dangerous. When his warp core begins to go critical, Cochrane must act fast or be stranded forever... and he does, and everything is totally fine in the end.

With Cochrane, it would more likely document his journey before meeting the Companion.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The best "Star Trek Begins" would be "Star Trek Begins Anew".

 

[fireproof78]

Star Trek: Journey to the Sierra Madre.

 

[Cr0sis21]

The thing is,TNG could have been called "Star Trek Begins". And TOS. And Enterprise. And Discovery. And Strange New Worlds.

Any show that isn't intrinsically linked to what happened before can be where Star Trek "begins" for a new audience. For me, Star Trek "began" with the Motion Picture when I rented all six movies while home sick. For my wife, Star Trek "began" with reruns of TOS age watched with her dad. For some people, it "began" with reruns of Voyager they saw on UPN. For my son, it "began" with random episodes of Lower Decks he caught with me.

Where Star Trek begins is different for everyone.

 

[FredH]

This thread is making me realize I’d probably enjoy a movie about the Vulcans going to space for the first time (with no humans or Earth in the movie at all, it being approximately the 1st century CE) — but there’s no way they’d ever make it.

In the imaginary timeline where they did make it, I guess Movie #2 would be about the dramatic split with what would become the Romulans. Movie #3 could then be about the now-logical Vulcans facing their very first interstellar crisis and forming its own little alliance of new Vulcan colony worlds. Then, a spin-off Movie #4 about the Romulan exodus and founding of Romulus — and the painful price they pay when those of them who land instead on Remus start to suffer horrible mutation.

Oh well.

 

[Firebird]

I just can't figure out why Hollywood is so damn obsessed with making origin stories. How stupid do they think audiences are that they need literally everything explained to them?

Scratch that, I already know how stupid producers think everyone else is.

 

[fireproof78]

I just can't figure out why Hollywood is so damn obsessed with making origin stories. How stupid do they think audiences are that they need literally everything explained to them?

If you think it's about stupidity then yeah, it's probably not going to make sense.

I think it's about money.

 

[Dukhat]

If it was about money, we would have had four Star Trek films in the last eight years instead of zero.

I think it’s more about competence.