"Star Trek Begins" - The 'Origins' Film Discussion
- Thread starter TerryTrek
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The CEO's office is now occupied by one of those toy birds that dips its beak in a glass of water.
Sounds like an upgrade to be honest.
And yet someone would rather watch a Garak show.
It's as evil.
An admiral willingly participated with the organization. The heroes of Deep Space Nine fought against 31 but the rest of Starfleet? We don't know.
I don't understand this. We see characters do things we don't agree with including the heroes. That doesn't undermine anything.
People are complicated and will care about people despite apparent conflict of values. That doesn't make their values less. It doesn't make them wrong.
Hell, Worf follower Klingon values including ritual suicide and murder. I don't recall that undermining Riker or Picard's values or thinking lesser of them l. Dax fulfilled a blood oath of revenge and yet Sisko kept her on.
Again, feels like a double standard. Past heroes make poor choices and it's acceptable. People can call for a Garak or a Dukat show. Or even a Borg show!
That has absolutely nothing to do with what you asked me.
No.
You're completely missing the point. This isn't 'in-universe' justifications. It's about a *tv show*. The main characters are the main characters, not everyone else in Starfleet. Their actions define how the audience sees Starfleet, in this case as an institution willing to fight against awful things even when their own leaders are complicit. If Ross were the main character, that would heavily change the message of the show.
Again, this is not what I'm talking about. The point is not and never has been that people make mistakes or have different values, it's about how those things are presented in the show.
Worf's values cause actual friction and problems between him and Picard (or Sisko). They don't just ignore him wanting to kill people because he's their friend. And he is still their friend, despite the problems, but that doesn't make the problems go away. The show also tries to explore the subject of different values having legitimacy even though they're different, something DSC could've attempted if they really wanted to, if they cared at all to actually explore Georgiou's character and dig into, say, her internal mental issues surrounding safety stemming from the deeply unsafe world she grew up in. Though it would've been hard to get a lot of people to take that fully seriously just because of how insanely cartoonishly evil she is in her introduction to the audience. That's just a really difficult thing to walk back after the fact. But they didn't even try, anyway. Instead it's just all shallow snark.
Well, if there the view I will agree to disagree. I don't see just at all and see an opportunity to explore a morally different character, someone who grew up without our ethics, with our morality, who was not taught these values.
I don't think there's anything bad in such messaging and would find a Section 31 show featuring Garak and Bashir to be potentially lesser because of their past portrayal.
Yup, I agree. That's why I said chance instead of guarantee. I think they're more serious than they were before. What that amounts to, we'll see.
I don't know if the Prequel Trek Movie would be my type of movie. But, at this point, I just want to see them get out of the Star Trek 4 Black Hole they're stuck in. The way things have so completely stalled out is crazy.
Well wasn't that a nice little Georgiou vs. Garak tangent? I'm glad it's ended now.
I wouldn't do this as a feature film release in theaters. Very few films are making back their budgets these days. Theater attendance hasn't really gotten back to where it was before the pandemic. More people are opting to stay indoors and watch at home.
What seems to be working in the theaters are kids films, one off hits like Deadpool and Wolverine, low budget horror movies (think A24), and some low budget religious based movies.
I would love to see a new Star Trek film. But it doesn't have to be in the theater. I'm good watching it in my living room. I'd rather it do well on streaming than bomb in the theater with a big budget. The D&D movie that came out was really good, but it didn't do well enough its budget. I can see this potentially ending up the same, where it's good but not good enough to get another film.
As for Star Trek origin, I'm not really sure what story that's going to tell. A lot of the origin came out in First Contact. And then Enterprise tackled this a bit in its last season. I have zero clue what they're going tackle in this film, so it's hard to say anything good or bad about it.
What seems to be working in the theaters are kids films, one off hits like Deadpool and Wolverine, low budget horror movies (think A24), and some low budget religious based movies.
I would love to see a new Star Trek film. But it doesn't have to be in the theater. I'm good watching it in my living room. I'd rather it do well on streaming than bomb in the theater with a big budget. The D&D movie that came out was really good, but it didn't do well enough its budget. I can see this potentially ending up the same, where it's good but not good enough to get another film.
As for Star Trek origin, I'm not really sure what story that's going to tell. A lot of the origin came out in First Contact. And then Enterprise tackled this a bit in its last season. I have zero clue what they're going tackle in this film, so it's hard to say anything good or bad about it.
That is by no definition of the term a "one-off." It's the third movie in a series, and it's connected to the massive MCU which spans multiple movies and TV shows, a few of which are referenced directly in the movie itself.
What really annoys me about this Kelvin timeline prequel premise is that it totally smacks of some shithead Paramount exec’s idea of ‘let’s just make a cheap 21st century sci-fi flick about aliens invading Earth, but let’s slap the Star Trek label on it so people will actually go to see it even though it really has zero to do with Star Trek. We’ll just say it takes place in the past of that other universe we made back in 2009.’ You know, from the same people who thought up making a Trek version of Guardians of the Galaxy with a ‘Section 31’ label slapped on it.
Origins is not short of ideas.
They could do a story about Cochrane meeting the Companion. Or a search for Cochrane’s whereabouts.
And a film about the early Space Boomers having unidentified encounters with the Romulans that they presume to be pirates or more Kzinti.
In fact, that’s a whole new trilogy right there - the Origins trilogy
- Earth-Kzin War
- Cochrane and the Companion/The Search for Cochrane
- Space Boomers and Romulans incursions
Not a single film would need to carry over their cast to the next film.
Paramount would just be slow in getting this trilogy out, if the Kelvin trilogy is any indication.
Except they do have something that would fit. The Earth-Kzin wars.
It’s just a question if they’ll actually use that idea. Or come up with something that clashes with canon.
Or they'll just ignore the whole notion of a Kzinti war, as the franchise has for decades, as it's from a show thats status in canon has been all over the place.
They would need Larry Niven’s permission to do that. Frankly I’m not sure how LDS got away with showing a Kzinti on that show. Parody laws, perhaps?
I know he gave Picard permission to mention them, it might be the same for Lower Decks.
But unless it ends with a remake of Metamorphosis, there's no pay-off.
Old man flies off into space at the end of his life, meets cloud and lives happily ever after.
People search for him but don't find him.
The best Cochrane story was the novel Federation, and that was pretty much retconned by First Contact's characterisation of him.
By the way: I was watching DS9: Chimera the other day and found interesting how Odo enveloping as light Kira at the end looked similar to what the Companion did with Cochrane.
Agreed: loved that book.
Google's AI says
Paramount Global's new leadership team is made up of three senior executives:
- George Cheeks: President and CEO of CBS
- Chris McCarthy: President and CEO of Showtime/MTV Entertainment Studios and Paramount Media Networks
- Brian Robbins: President and CEO of Paramount Pictures and Nickelodeon
Reminds me of most "Star Trek" toys back in the 70's. Many were Just repackaged failed random non-aligned toys with "Star Trek" stickers attached to them at the warehouse. The Remco "Astro Helmet and Rocket Pistol" and, of course, the infamous "Official Star Trek Space Fun Helmet" were great examples. The latter being canonized in LDS, retroactively making it a highly accurate replica!
At best, they were faint approximations of what appeared in the show. Mego tricorder and Remco phaser, I'm looking at you!
Point being, I'm sure the suits back then were highly confident in the notion that such things were sufficient to satisfy the fandom. Pro tip - they still think that way!
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Reminds me of most "Star Trek" toys back in the 70's. Many were Just repackaged failed random non-aligned toys with "Star Trek" stickers attached to them at the warehouse. The Remco "Astro Helmet and Rocket Pistol" and, of course, the infamous "Official Star Trek Space Fun Helmet" were great examples. The latter being canonized in LDS, retroactively making it a highly accurate replica!
At best, they were faint approximations of what appeared in the show. Mego tricorder and Remco phaser, I'm looking at you!
Point being, I'm sure the suits back then were highly confident in the notion that such things were sufficient to satisfy the fandom. Pro tip - they still think that way!
Just doing a Google search of ‘Remco Star Trek’ will bring up the nuttiest of products they were trying to pawn off with the Star Trek label. One helmet looked like something an Ice Warrior from Doctor Who would have worn, and LDS canonized that too…
