Star Trek: Axanar

[doubleohfive]

Wrong. Garth didn't commit Genocide, he attempted it but was stopped by his crew. (Watch Whom Gods Destroy starting at minute 18.)

Is that supposed to make it less terrible a crime? The fact that others stopped him?

No that is supposed to point out that you are wrong. Your failure to own up to your error and deflect it is not surprising.

Oh I think between the two of us, Alec, I've more than proven that I'm able to "own up" to my errors in our interactions. Can you say the same?

On topic: So what if I "deflect" your logic? I raised a salient point based on an opinion - that a madman like Garth, in my view, would absolutely NOT be shuffled back in to Starfleet with a full commission.

Someone mentioned Picard and his assimilation by the Borg. That's a close call. The difference being that Picard was taken by force and mutilated by the Borg. It wasn't some random madness that made him clue the Borg in on destroying 40 starships and killing 11,000 people. It was all against his will. And we saw the trauma it caused him throughout (the tear, his last shred of humanity; and his revelation "Sleep, Data" to help Riker stop them) as well as afterward when he went home to France.

I believe Picard being put back in command after the fleet had been devastated a lot more than I'd buy Garth being given a crew and a ship after what he pulled. If Whom Gods Destroy is to be taken at face value, then it's a fair bet just about everyone in Starfleet knows about him and what happened to him -- what crew would want to serve under that guy? Look at what happened to Ro and how people treated her when she first showed up.

So, Alec: more accurately: Yes, you're right - Garth does NOT commit genocide.

But he did attempt it. And by "attempt" we can further assume that he probably killed a whole bunch of people. Like he killed Marta. Is her life any less valuable? Just because he was crazy? I'm not trying to suggest that insanity is the fault of the person afflicted by it, but rather that it cannot simply be excused away.

Garth attempted genocide. There's no getting around it. You know who else attempted genocide but failed? Adolf Hitler. Are you going to tell me that he should be excused because he was crazy? Or because he failed?

 

[USS Intrepid]

The clear implication at the end of Whom Gods Destroy (at least to me) is that Garth is restored to his former self (or at least on his way to being so). I don't think it's a huge stretch to think he'd be reinstated in some capacity if he is given a clean bill of health.

None of which, as far as I'm aware, has anything to do with the plot of Axanar, which is set years before those events.

So, apart from the fact that there's a bit of bad blood between a few of you here, is there really any point to this line of discussion, or are we all going to have to sit through another pointless argument over nothing?

Sorry to be blunt, but I'm having a crappy week, and these little grudge matches are getting old.

 

[Johnny]

Been cutting our first Kickstarter Video.

Please tell me that's a HD projector...

 

[GSchnitzer]

Wrong. Garth didn't commit Genocide, he attempted it but was stopped by his crew. (Watch Whom Gods Destroy starting at minute 18.)

Is that supposed to make it less terrible a crime? The fact that others stopped him?

No that is supposed to point out that you are wrong. Your failure to own up to your error and deflect it is not surprising.

Loken:

The Moderation Team has said this before: not everybody's opinion on things constitutes an "attack" simply because it is a contrary position to yours. People might simply be expressing some alternative opinion. Despite whatever topic is being discussed, it's our sense that you are usually the first person to initiate some kind of ad hominem attack.


"I think Garth is totally rehabilitatable."

"Interesting. I think he is actually beyond full rehabilitation."

"How dare you attack me and my position like that--although I've come to expect such attacks from you!"

Please remember the TrekBBS rule:

"Flames

"Obviously, you cannot insult other people. You may disagree with someone's opinion, but you may not attack the person themselves for posting that opinion. Don't respond to a flame with a flame. You cannot flame people and then claim to have been just defending yourself. If you have a complaint, notify a moderator rather than responding yourself."

Less acrimony over other people's simple diversity of opinions, please.

 

[lennier1]

Could we please get back on topic again?
Arguing over a make-believe crime on a TV show in light of real-life criminal law and based on what people read into an episode decades ago just serves as a distraction and doesn't really benefit the project.

@Topic: I really hope these modifications will be stored somewhere after use. I'm sure the Phase II team could also find good uses for fitting parts that allowed them to let their bridge double as various older "ships of the week".

 

[doubleohfive]

Of course, you all are right. My apologies, Alec. I guess we just have different takes on Garth and what characteristics he exhibits.

It's worth noting too (and I admit I probably got a little too hung up on this) that Star Trek is supposed to be about bettering ourselves and reaching our maximum potential. In the 23rd Century world of Star Trek and Starfleet, who is to say, here in the 21st, what would constitute a likely outcome of Garth's situation?

As ever, I am going to reserve my judgment until I see the final film but it's tidbits like this that get my gears turning and sometimes those gears are writer's gears, which often have to take story logic in to account.

The show I work on is heavily steeped in story logic and we sometimes literally have to spend hours working on minor plot points that contribute to an entire episode making sense and fitting with the twists and turns that are our bread and butter. And since I have to read every draft of every script for the show, my brain is pretty much always "on" in this capacity. I hope you can understand that and will forgive my indulgence in approaching your story point in that light.

On a completely different point, I do quite like the bridge configuration you've developed. I saw the pics on Facebook the other day and while there might be one or two things I'd have done differently if you can fully realize that design for your film, I think it will be quite interesting to see in action.

 

[Loken]

It's worth noting too (and I admit I probably got a little too hung up on this) that Star Trek is supposed to be about bettering ourselves and reaching our maximum potential. In the 23rd Century world of Star Trek and Starfleet, who is to say, here in the 21st, what would constitute a likely outcome of Garth's situation?

Exactly. This is fiction and you need not agree on our take.

Trying to say what would be a likely outcome in a universe that is totally different than ours (more enlightened, more humanistic) 230 years from now is all speculation.

In "Going Boldly" where Garth is back in Star Fleet, we choose to tell a positive story that has Garth returning to Starfleet, just like Picard did after leading the Borg to destroy a huge part of Starfleet at Wolf 359.

Of course Axanar has nothing to do with Garth after "Whom Gods Destroy". Axanar is the story of Garth at the height of his achievments, 21 years before TOS, when he fought a battle that saved the Federation. (which is an interpretation as well as Kirk basically says that the battle created the Federation which we know is not true due.)

 

[Loken]

The Axanar team is proud to announce that we will be releasing Prelude to Axanar, a very special short, in April. Prelude to Axanar is a historical look at the battle of Axanar, filmed like a History Channel special. Each character will give a different view of the war with the Klingons leading up to the final confrontation that will be chronicled in Axanar, which will be released later this year. Prelude will tell viewers about the war and what it meant to each side

Figures from both sides will talk about how the war started, how the Klingons were better prepared for war, how Starfleet built their fleet, and how the war was fought from both the Federation and Klingon perspectives. You will hear from Robert April talk about building the Enterprise, Starfleet Admiral Ramirez talk about building the Starfleet, Garth of Izar telling the story of his rise to fame and Kharn, the Klingon Supreme Commander give the Klingon view of the war.

Want to know why Starfleet crews weren’t integrated and how this affected the war? Why were the Vulcans ready to pull out of the Federation? And how did the Klingons view the Federation and their young fleet? Prelude to Axanar will tell answer these questions, giving you an insight into what lead up to the final battle.

For the hard core geeks among you, there will be a whole fleet of new ships you have never seen before. You will get to see the Enterprise being built in Space Dock, and find out how the introduction of Richard Daystrom’s Duotroics affected Starfleet ships.
So stay tuned to our Facebook page as on March 1st we will launch the Prelude to Axanar Kickstarter!

 

[MikeH92467]

Great idea Alec! I'm looking forward to it!

 

[Loken]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoSvjKLr1i4&feature=youtu.be

Hope you enjoy it folks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoSvjKLr1i4&feature=youtu.be

 

[MikeH92467]

Great promo piece! Best of luck.

 

[DCR]

Looks like it's already funded, inside the first day! Congrats.

 

[MikeH92467]

That is some very impressive fund raising! Congratulations!

 

[OpenMaw]

So very awesome. I'm glad to see so much enthusiasm from everyone involved. Very very cool!

Just as an aside, I remember myself and an associate by the name of TheJimmyJames working on a fan film called Constellation almost ten years ago, and we were playing around with the events of Axanar as a backdrop. Sadly it never came together, but it's nice to see others who have a taste for that era of Trek really fleshing it out and bringing it to life. This is on a level of professionalism and ambition that is truly beyond anything else i've ever seen.

The cast for this is phenomenal and if the actual production and script matches up with Tobias' special effects work, then this could go down as the single best piece of Star Trek we will have seen for a long, long time. Bar none.

Godspeed to everyone involved.

 

[Loken]

So very awesome. I'm glad to see so much enthusiasm from everyone involved. Very very cool!

Just as an aside, I remember myself and an associate by the name of TheJimmyJames working on a fan film called Constellation almost ten years ago, and we were playing around with the events of Axanar as a backdrop. Sadly it never came together, but it's nice to see others who have a taste for that era of Trek really fleshing it out and bringing it to life. This is on a level of professionalism and ambition that is truly beyond anything else i've ever seen.

The cast for this is phenomenal and if the actual production and script matches up with Tobias' special effects work, then this could go down as the single best piece of Star Trek we will have seen for a long, long time. Bar none.

Godspeed to everyone involved.

Thank you sir! Most kind.

I was out with Gary Graham last night having dinner and his enthusiasm for Axanar was crazy. Like most actors, he doesn't know everything about Star Trek, but he was genuinely enthusiastic as Christian (our director) and I were. I quoted to him the teaser dialogue he had with Vaughn Armstrong in "The Forge" and he said "Damn that's good writing!".

And yes, you hit it on the head, we know Tobias' work is great, and we have to make sure the rest of the production matches.

I think you will be impressed. After all, the video above was our first effort and a stepping stone to Prelude to Axanar which will be a stepping stone to Axanar. We want to keep testing our team and improving our game.

Alec

 

[Borgminister]

Looks awesome... and those involved are obviously extremely and sincerely excited about the project.

Add to that the professional-grade FX, well-established and known actors, and all that remains is what's on the written page... crossing fingers and looking forward to this immensely.

 

[RCAM]

A well-produced, professional looking promo. Look forward to seeing more. Everyone involved is clearly very enthusiastic about the project.

 

[Loken]

A note about the script, since none of you have read it and let's face it, story is one of the biggest issues with non-CBS Star Trek.

David Gerrold is our story editor. He read this script for the first time last summer and his comment to me was "It's good, it's very good, its almost ready to shoot." That was before we started revisions with director Christian Gossett (creator of The Red Star).

Rob Burnett (Free Enterprise writer/director and producer of the Star Trek Blu Rays) read it and loved it and said "This is Star Trek". He then signed on as editor.

So I think you will all be very happy with the script and the story. It is fresh, yet true to Star Trek. It is a war story set in the Star Trek universe that reads like Star Trek.

Alec

 

[Bixby]

A note about the script, since none of you have read it and let's face it, story is one of the biggest issues with non-CBS Star Trek.

David Gerrold is our story editor.

So I think you will all be very happy with the script and the story. It is fresh, yet true to Star Trek. It is a war story set in the Star Trek universe that reads like Star Trek.

Alec

Congrats on making this film a reality. I'm very much looking forward to it. I know you've all already determined the look and feel of Axanar, I'd like to say that while I don't necessarily expect the level of grit and intensity of a Band of Brothers, if you actually went with that I would be all for it. If you look back at Wrath of Khan with its Ceti Eels going inside the brain, Scotty's nephew getting burned and Khan's final look, Trek doesn't or shouldn't shy away from the horrors of space battles.

I dare hope with the amazing success of Axanar's Kickstarter that you'll get the services of a serious Hollywood make-up and prosthetics house for your film. I say go for Greg Nicotero!!

 

[MikeH92467]

Alec, if you're not careful, you're going to end up with a REAL budget! Wouldn't that spoil the fun? j/k, but not really since part of the enjoyment is seeing how fan film producers are starting to get close to the quality of "professional" projects on the most minuscule of budgets.