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STAR TREK 4 BACK ON! Noah Hawley to write and direct

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Why are people blaming Paramount and CO, they wanted more movies but they can't because beyond was a flop and Chris Pine wanted more money they could not afford.

The kelvinverse is now officially dead, there can be no return. we are already four years after star trek beyond, a bad gap between movie sequels. I think the actors have also moved on.

If there is a new trek film, it would have nothing to do with pine and quinto. A new kelvin film that may work will be to bring in the children of the Kelvin characters (Sulu's daughter and kirk's son) with a new original cast. that would be a good way to keep the link and legacy of the kelvin movies but still have a brand new movie series.
 
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I honestly am not sure about the regression. I think that Spock would keep on growing, but once he was assigned to Kirk he would have that period were he would perhaps withdraw and become more confident with his new crew over time.

It's regression because this discovery-Spock already had an emotional development about his human side that conflicts with the Spock we see in the series who is an unreliable narrator of himself (and the vulcans lol) and a man who tries to pass for a Vulcan only, and he has this delusion about feelings and his human side that takes him years to resolve. He didn't seem to even know some of the stuff both Peck and Quinto's version of the character know so it's illogical, in a way, to even expect Nimoy's Spock to be a direct sequel/evolution of either. .
It's the conflicting context too. Tos Spock was largely influenced by the tragic mulatto trope you see in movies like 'imitation of life'. Nowadays, mixed kids wouldn't feel that kind of portrayal so relatable and progressive. Nowadays, Spock is written in a way that is more contemporary to our era and the fact mixed kids, that he allegorically represents, are allowed to embrace their dual heritage more even when there is still a cultural conflict. Even the fact that, in tos, he had to fail at relationships to be 'different' and 'alien', and he was too defined by his role as nerdy hero's friend, is a reflection of how tptb used to write characters like him.. some cliché were quite automatic.

My point is, they are giving to the Spock played by Peck a character development that, in large part, feels like (to me) it 'won't matter' and is ditched when you watch the series. He'll lose his memory lol
If new fans watch that Spock and Quinto's version and then they decide to watch the original series, it's likely they not only will find his portrayal outdated there but they'll also think the guy Nimoy played went backwards compared to the guys Peck and Quinto played. For the latter, the point is moot because he never was positioned as a prequel of that Spock anyway. Different reality, different evolution. With Peck, however, there is this, in my opinion, delusion by the creative team that their story is a logical, natural, prequel of the old thing in spite of that wish being illogical and not realistic because they aren't writers from the 60s and it's only natural that their characters reflect that. Just like the ships cannot look like the sets from the 60s.

Tptb seem to also have a deep misuranderstanding about Spock's character when they pretend that the guy you see in tos is the more resolved Spock who found his balance etc. That's not true because tos was only the beginning of his story not the final chapter of it all. It's also a flawed concept because it seems to constantly suggest that the Spock you see in tos is the 'better' character or how he's supposed to be in the end, his real flawless self, as if he had no more character development.
Mostly, they seem to romanticize his issues from tos too by either pretending that him trying to be more vulcan than vulcans was him finally accepting himself (irony), or they pretend that the guy you see in tos had found a balance between his human and vulcan side..

I can explain this misuranderstanding about Spock tho. My impression is that people, including creative teams, may mostly remember the Spock from the movies. In fact, from that perspective, Peck's Spock would make more sense if he was positioned as a prequel of that Spock (the one you see after the motion picture), not the one from the series. Ditto for Quinto's version.

Btw, this is typical with old things. People romanticize the past so the old thing is 'flawless'...however, what some fail to understand is that you have no story if you have flawless characters. Spock in tos had a long journey to make, pretending he was this perfect guy who didn't need to learn anything actually is a disservice to him and erases his character development.

That's why I don't like prequels of old things. Better to have honest reboots/remakes. Discovery&Co writers truly painted themselves into a corner for me and it was unnecessary. Either way, it is always going to feel like different universes, prime timeline label or not.
 
Yeah, it wasn't about what Pine thought he deserved as much as it was about the studio refusing to honour his contract.
From what I understand, the whole cast got new contracts for beyond because it took the studio so much time to make the sequels that their previous contracts for a trilogy expired. Of course, their new contracts had to include a raise since the original ones, when most of them were unknows, were too cheap for franchise standards. Pine and Quinto essentially accepted to do beyond for a small raise under the mutual promise they'd be available for a fourth movie and the studio would pay them more for that one.
Pine was the one offered the biggest raise and thus the one they couldn't afford. The big issue, though, was the other Chris possibly being the most expensive. Ditch the script with Kirk's dad, and they probably would be perfectly able to honour the contracts they already had with the regular cast. Some people also suspected both Chris were being represented by the same people who insisted it was either getting them both at their conditions or none of them. This probably was a hindrance for Pine.

I think it was blessing in disguise anyway. I never thought getting his father back was a good idea unless it's mirror George. Besides, a lot of people want to see more of the ensemble finally but that movie could dangerously be the Thor show and too Kirk focused. Again.
Personally, I think the studio should focus and invest into their own cast first foremost. It is absurd for me that you'd refuse to honour contracts with the mains (assuming this is what happened) just to hire some A list star for no other reason than getting publicity. That might also alienate your cast.
Do something with the characters you already have.
But then again, you have to also consider the studio has to deal with investors and executives who might make some very unreasonable requests such as 'we only give you funds to make a movie if you hire Thor and we don't care if you can afford him or not'.

This trek is frustrating because on one hand, the mismanagement by paramount&co is undeniable and they truly wasted this thing they have.
On the other hand, they also seem to get creative teams that too waste the potential of this trek and keep proposing uninspired stuff. It's a pity that in the vastness that is hollywood, they can't get a new creative team that liked this trek and is really inspired to do something interesting with it.
 
Just to hazard a guess, I'm going to say a 2023 release date. ViacomCBS will attempt to keep the old cast, but there may well be a new one. I predict great success.

RAMA
 
The big issue, though, was the other Chris possibly being the most expensive. Ditch the script with Kirk's dad, and they probably would be perfectly able to honour the contracts they already had with the regular cast. Some people also suspected both Chris were being represented by the same people who insisted it was either getting them both at their conditions or none of them. This probably was a hindrance for Pine.

I just read an article that the reason Hemsworth turned it down was because he didn't like the script. Which, considering some of the stinkers he has been in recently, makes one wonder just how bad it was. Either it was really bad or he just doesn't want to come off as greedy.

Edit: After reading the comments on that article I think I read it before. Or have Dejavu. Either way I may have made a similar comment previously and I've slept since then. Getting older sucks :rommie:
 
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I just read an article that the reason Hemsworth turned it down was because he didn't like the script. Which, considering some of the stinkers he has been in recently, makes one wonder just how bad it was. Either it was really bad or he just doesn't want to come off as greedy.

Edit: After reading the comments on that article I think I read it before. Or have Dejavu. Either way I may have made a similar comment previously and I've slept since then. Getting older sucks :rommie:

The idea the script wasn't great is believable but to be fair, Hemsworth had also said the pitch was 'amazing' before. It's possible the actual script he eventually read was bad but the timing of the two comments made by him in different times might give the impression that the story was amazing when they proposed him the money, and then it was bad when he wasn't proposed what was originally offered to him.
IMO the contract issue was the bigger if not the only problem.
 
I just read an article that the reason Hemsworth turned it down was because he didn't like the script. Which, considering some of the stinkers he has been in recently, makes one wonder just how bad it was. Either it was really bad or he just doesn't want to come off as greedy.

Edit: After reading the comments on that article I think I read it before. Or have Dejavu. Either way I may have made a similar comment previously and I've slept since then. Getting older sucks :rommie:

But why would Hemsworth or any other performer come off as greedy when the studio made an agreement to pay them for their services and future services but balked at the agreement when things don't turn out their way? The studio will make money off of them long after these performers are gone, but wants them to be team players to perform for a discount??? I don't understand that, the actors did their parts to a movie which wasn't very good IMO, and wasn't well received at the B.O.; it wasn't their fault the writers and director dropped the ball.

I would pay the actors what was promised and have the writers create the best Star Trek sequel they can muster. Just stop aping what was done from movies' past and invent something fresh and unique for these actors. These actors are very good and they deserve a picture that's worthy of their own contributions to Star Trek.
 
But why would Hemsworth or any other performer come off as greedy when the studio made an agreement to pay them for their services and future services but balked at the agreement when things don't turn out their way? The studio will make money off of them long after these performers are gone, but wants them to be team players to perform for a discount??? I don't understand that, the actors did their parts to a movie which wasn't very good IMO, and wasn't well received at the B.O.; it wasn't their fault the writers and director dropped the ball.

I would pay the actors what was promised and have the writers create the best Star Trek sequel they can muster. Just stop aping what was done from movies' past and invent something fresh and unique for these actors. These actors are very good and they deserve a picture that's worthy of their own contributions to Star Trek.

I completely agree if we are talking about Star Trek Beyond cast. I was only speaking about Hemsworth. Because, Pine was the only one under Contract in that duo. I don't think Hemsworth was. They didn't know back in St 09 when he made his cameo they would want to do a movie with him, and even if he did, those contracts had lapsed. And between ST 09 and this newer movie he had become Thor so probably thought he was worth more. I'll be honest, I don't like Hemsworth as an actor at ALL. The only reasons I watched the Marvel Thor movies was for Loki. And every other movie I've seen him in I cringe at how cheesy the acting seems. Or maybe he enjoys playing dumb blondes. I don't know. Literally the only role I've seen him in and not cringed at was Star Trek 2009.

All that to say, my point is paramount can kick him to the curb if he won't accept the pay offered and I won't miss him. Now Pine, they need to honor his damn contract! As well as any of the other ST cast.
 
I don't think Hemsworth had agreed in advance. I think only Pine and Quinto had.

Overall, I agree that they should be paid what was promised.

Edit: Ninja'd.

Literally the only role I've seen him in and not cringed at was Star Trek 2009.
I think ST 09 is one of his best rolls. Though I did enjoy him in Thor and Avengers.
 
I don't think Hemsworth had agreed in advance. I think only Pine and Quinto had.

Overall, I agree that they should be paid what was promised.

Edit: Ninja'd.


I think ST 09 is one of his best rolls. Though I did enjoy him in Thor and Avengers.

Right. The issue for me is he always seems to play the dumb hot blonde shtick. I could tolerate him in Avengers etc because he was always the butt of a joke in regards to that and I had other characters I was invested in. He fit the dumb blonde warrior thing to a T. He grew a little in Endgame, but not much. My question is, why doesn't the actor himself choose some better roles with more depth? Is that all he is being offered? If so I feel sorry for him, because in ST 09 I saw a glimmer of the actor he could be. But not since. Now his brother Liam, I've seen in several good roles.
 
I completely agree if we are talking about Star Trek Beyond cast. I was only speaking about Hemsworth. Because, Pine was the only one under Contract in that duo. I don't think Hemsworth was. They didn't know back in St 09 when he made his cameo they would want to do a movie with him, and even if he did, those contracts had lapsed. And between ST 09 and this newer movie he had become Thor so probably thought he was worth more. I'll be honest, I don't like Hemsworth as an actor at ALL. The only reasons I watched the Marvel Thor movies was for Loki. And every other movie I've seen him in I cringe at how cheesy the acting seems. Or maybe he enjoys playing dumb blondes. I don't know. Literally the only role I've seen him in and not cringed at was Star Trek 2009.

All that to say, my point is paramount can kick him to the curb if he won't accept the pay offered and I won't miss him. Now Pine, they need to honor his damn contract! As well as any of the other ST cast.

LoL! I think Hemsworth is a good actor, although he does play some roles beneath his talents, but I think if his character is centered to the plot and require him to have some ala Henry Jones Sr meet Indiana Jones moment then heck pay him the money and lets bring back everyone to make that movie. I don't think Hemsworth is greedy to make as much money he can based on the studio making lucrative opportunities with the material for years to come. I have faith in the writers and the production to make a great movie but if he's essential to the story's plot than I think the studio should continue to negotiate so everyone will be satisfied.
 
Right. The issue for me is he always seems to play the dumb hot blonde shtick. I could tolerate him in Avengers etc because he was always the butt of a joke in regards to that and I had other characters I was invested in. He fit the dumb blonde warrior thing to a T. He grew a little in Endgame, but not much. My question is, why doesn't the actor himself choose some better roles with more depth? Is that all he is being offered? If so I feel sorry for him, because in ST 09 I saw a glimmer of the actor he could be. But not since. Now his brother Liam, I've seen in several good roles.
I think because he is just having fun. So, he just rolls with it. He strikes me as a bit of an easy going guy who just is happy to have the rolls.

I think in Avengers he had the best depth because of his interactions with Loki.
 
I think because he is just having fun. So, he just rolls with it. He strikes me as a bit of an easy going guy who just is happy to have the rolls.

I think in Avengers he had the best depth because of his interactions with Loki.
Yeah don't get me wrong, he seems like a genuinely nice guy and I don't think it would be him that is greedy, it would more likely be his agent who is pushing for more because that's their job. But if they do want him to get paid more they should try a role that showcases all his talents. Or take less to play that type of role if he is being stereocast. You'd think playing the same type of role would get boring!

I :adore: Loki, just so much! lol They did have some pretty good interactions, like the whole 'Let's do Get Help.'
 
LoL! I think Hemsworth is a good actor, although he does play some roles beneath his talents, but I think if his character is centered to the plot and require him to have some ala Henry Jones Sr meet Indiana Jones moment then heck pay him the money and lets bring back everyone to make that movie. I don't think Hemsworth is greedy to make as much money he can based on the studio making lucrative opportunities with the material for years to come. I have faith in the writers and the production to make a great movie but if he's essential to the story's plot than I think the studio should continue to negotiate so everyone will be satisfied.

I think Hemsworth can be a good actor, he just chooses roles that don't portray him that way. And Yeah I don't have that Faith. Paramount continually mis-manages Star Trek. They just can NOT get it together. And if they won't even pay Pine what they promised him, they certainly won't pay Hemsworth to play a more in depth role for it, as evidenced by the fact ST4 is still non-existent. They usually prefer to scrap it and recast with young, little known actors. They keep trying to fit it into a Marvel mold or Mission impossible type fit because then when each release does want they want, they'll pay the actors what they want. You can't tell me Tom Cruise comes cheap. (Another fav actor of mine...NOT!) And you can't make Star Trek movies that way.
 
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