Star Trek 2017 will not be set in the JJ-Verse

[Kemaiku]

They already have booted the old 'verse out the door.

The new series will either build on a currently produced, successful portion of the franchise with inbuilt appeal and assets (JJverse) or a new one altogether to allow everyone to watch it anew with no expectations that would put off a larger audience.

 

[theREVENGEofKAHN]

They already have booted the old 'verse out the door.

The new series will either build on a currently produced, successful portion of the franchise with inbuilt appeal and assets (JJverse) or a new one altogether to allow everyone to watch it anew with no expectations that would put off a larger audience.

I think there is a different mentality when building a TV audience that will stick with a show as opposed to marketing a movie that's main goal is to have a big opening weekend. There is less of a concern to alienate fans for a movie because they will probably see it at least once whether they like it or not. A TV show needs viewers to keep watching the show week after week and year after year. Especial if they are trying to build a subscription streaming service.

 

[Trekkin]

Yes, but if they could attract a new larger fan base PLUS keep the old one wouldn't that make their viewership even larger. There is no reason for CBS to discard the old fan base unless they had to choose. I don't think they do. I think they are going to make the decision that makes them the most money and pleases the most people.

Keeping the settings of the new movies wouldn't be 'discarding' the old fan base. That suggests a schism between 'prime fans' and 'nu fans' that no one has ever been able to prove exists.

And if we say that (hypothetically) such a separation between 'old and new fans' does exist, then that just shoots the 'CBS should listen to us' argument in the foot. Because that would mean those two movies had fifty years worth of fans turn their backs on them, only to result in the franchise most successful films (except for an adjusted TMP, which also had a longer theatre run.) Why would CBS care to keep 'The old fanbase' when they had some of their greatest successes in spite of them?

Again, that's a hypothetical. I don't really believe the fanbase 'split' is any different to anytime there was new Trek. We always had stuff like fans calling for DS9/VOY/ENT to be axed for another season of TNG, TWOK and TMP being a decried as not 'real' Trek, or TOS fans hating the decisions to go with TAS and TNG as relaunches. There's nothing new here.

 

[theREVENGEofKAHN]

Keeping the settings of the new movies wouldn't be 'discarding' the old fan base. That suggests a schism between 'prime fans' and 'nu fans' that no one has ever been able to prove exists.

And if we say that (hypothetically) such a separation between 'old and new fans' does exist, then that just shoots the 'CBS should listen to us' argument in the foot. Because that would mean those two movies had fifty years worth of fans turn their backs on them, only to result in the franchise most successful films (except for an adjusted TMP, which also had a longer theatre run.) Why would CBS care to keep 'The old fanbase' when they had some of their greatest successes in spite of them?

Again, that's a hypothetical. I don't really believe the fanbase 'split' is any different to anytime there was new Trek. We always had stuff like fans calling for DS9/VOY/ENT to be axed for another season of TNG, TWOK and TMP being a decried as not 'real' Trek, or TOS fans hating the decisions to go with TAS and TNG as relaunches. There's nothing new here.

I don't think there are 'prime fans' and 'nufans' but I do think there is a Star Trek fan base that helped make the JJ movies successful (even though many don't like it, they still paid to see the movies) and a larger mainstream audience that never watched Star Trek before 2009 and doesn't really care what CBS does with the franchise.

Maybe 'discard' was a poor choice of words when it comes to the fan base but I do think it's in CBSs best interest to leverage the old continuity as that is the majority of the content for the property. I think CBS is trying to capitalize on loyalty to the franchise if they are relying on the Star Trek brand name to hold up their subscription service. I don't think that guy that paid to see a couple Star Trek movies in the theater is going to have the same brand loyalty to pay for a subscription to CBS All Access just because it has the new Star Trek show. I do think that some Star Trek fans will be unwilling to pay to watch the new show if it doesn't treat the franchise they care about with respect; something that can be argued the new continuity fails at.

Again this conversation started commenting on how much CBS cares about continuity and I think they care enough not to alienate potential viewers. A new show set in he JJverse has the potential to do that.

 

[Trekkin]

The JJverse is part of the same continuity as the Primeverse. It's a sequel to TOS (and NEM). In universe, the 'history' still matters and the Primeverse has continued chugging along.

That connection was the bone that Paramount (or more specifically, Orci) threw to the die-hard fans. Eventually, they're gonna start getting impatient.

 

[Kemaiku]

And I seriously doubt the fanbase helped the new movies all that much. If their turnout meant that much, the TNG movies would have done a hell of a lot better, as most of us went to see them.

Where did the remaining 80% come from? oh yes, outside the fans.

 

[EnderAKH]

A TV show needs viewers to keep watching the show week after week and year after year. Especial if they are trying to build a subscription streaming service.

Well then they need to steer clear of "Star Trek fans." They stopped watching Star Trek in droves. Viewership fell every year for every series after TNG went off the air. I don't know that targeting this fickle bunch is going to be high on any studio exec's priority list. They want the people watching Breaking Bad, or The Walking Dead. We tend to think of Trek fandom as this loyal monolith that will watch Trek no matter what, but the numbers don't bear that out. Even the ratings for DS9, which is considered by many to be "the good Trek series," lost viewers every year. So don't think targeting Star Trek fans is going to be a huge touchstone of this new series. It's all about micro demographics now. They will pick a demo that they think their Trek series can speak to and gear the series towards that.

 

[Rahul]

I do think it's in CBSs best interest to leverage the old continuity as that is the majority of the content for the property. I think CBS is trying to capitalize on loyalty to the franchise if they are relying on the Star Trek brand name to hold up their subscription service.

This. Right there.

That's the point. The new series wasn't ordered because of the success of the new movies. The new series was ordered because of how good the Trek series sold in online streaming. (THAT was definetely helped by the new movies, though).

It's important to note that any kind of "Trek-reference" the new show will do, it will always reference the old continuity. As were all the references in Trek09 and Into Darkness. And you need to show some nods to clarify this new series is indeed part of the Trek brand. So why not set it in the old continuity right away?

(Although to be fair, the smartest way would be an arms-lenght reboot, that could be seen as a broad-strokes continuiation of either continuity - Let people enjoy the new series - and laugh madly as Trek fans dissect every tiny bit of dialogue and argue in which continuity it takes place )

 

[Dukhat]

The new series wasn't ordered because of the success of the new movies. The new series was ordered because of how good the Trek series sold in online streaming.

I would have to disagree with that statement.

 

[Rahul]

The new series wasn't ordered because of the success of the new movies. The new series was ordered because of how good the Trek series sold in online streaming. (THAT was definetely helped by the new movies, though).

I would have to disagree with that statement.

Care to elaborate on that? As far as I know, the best time to launch a series in the new continuity would have been right on the heels of Trek09. That's what JJ Abrams wanted to do. Take his new movie as a launching point for a 'new" continuity, with media tie-ins, comic books, merchandise and new television series, with JJ as a producer and in cooperation with bad robot.

They didn't do that.

As I read somewhere, it was because JJ Abrams wanted CBS to stop selling merchandise of the 'old' continuity, because studies had shown there was brand confusion between the two. CBS rightfully denied that, since the merch sold so well (and still sells better than new continuity merch). That's in the end what drove JJ away from Trek, into the hands of Star Wars.

So why exactly should they do NOW, after the novelty of the new JJverse has worn off, and fan support has faded with Into Darkness, what they didn't do then?

Especially since one of CBS' producers outright stated that the new series was ordered because of the requests of other streaming services to draft a new Trek show based on the demand for the old ones in streaming, and since the very first official announcement included a line seperating it from the JJ-movies? Who's direction themselves seem to be shaken up now, with a new director and a clear shift in tone and content?

Now, they definetly will hang on with the movie franchise - it simply makes too much money as a blockbuster franchise - but the new series clearly seems to be made to appeal more to 'old-school' fans (which, to be fair, is at this point in development the only reasonable marketing choice).

 

[Dukhat]

That's what JJ Abrams wanted to do. Take his new movie as a launching point for a 'new" continuity, with media tie-ins, comic books, merchandise and new television series, with JJ as a producer and in cooperation with bad robot.

They didn't do that.

As I read somewhere, it was because JJ Abrams wanted CBS to stop selling merchandise of the 'old' continuity, because studies had shown there was brand confusion between the two. CBS rightfully denied that, since the merch sold so well (and still sells better than new continuity merch). That's in the end what drove JJ away from Trek, into the hands of Star Wars.

I'm pretty sure all of that was just a made-up rumor that has since been refuted.

 

[drt]

The "Abrams wanted to stop selling TOS merchandise" came from one unsubstantiated article*, so anti-nuTrekkers gobbled it up and love bringing it up as proof of Abrams grand plan to sneak into their house at night to steal their DVDs and toys.

* = what's funny is the same article goes on to say that CBS and Abrams made nice for Into Darkness, but no one likes to remember that since it doesn't fit the agenda, lol

 

[fireproof78]

The "Abrams wanted to stop selling TOS merchandise" came from one unsubstantiated article*, so anti-nuTrekkers gobbled it up and love bringing it up as proof of Abrams grand plan to sneak into their house at night to steal their DVDs and toys.

* = what's funny is the same article goes on to say that CBS and Abrams made nice for Into Darkness, but no one likes to remember that since it doesn't fit the agenda, lol

Thank you. I was thinking of mentioning this as well. The rumors are that Abrams wanted that, which lent fuel to the fire about his opinion of Prime Trek.

Regardless, CBS saw the market as open to a new Star Trek series, possibly as a launching avenue for All Access in greater programming, possibly because the money seemed more available due to costs of production.

My overall point is that they can build from anything. Prime or Abrams or something else. If they reference Abrams, by extension, they are referring to other continuity the films have built upon.

Thankfully, CBS does not (thus far) appear to be attempting to weave an MCU style planned universe, which gives me the hope that it will be something new and different while holding on to the roots of exploration and optimism.

 

[drt]

I've mentioned this before, but the funny thing is even if they say it's a Prime Trek continuation, it's going to have all kinds of inconsistencies and continuity errors that will make the "canonistas" angry, so they're pretty much damned if they do anyway.

Might as well just start over, this gives the opportunity to update things to a more modern vision of the future as others have mentioned.

 

[Trekkin]

Rahul, you know we can just as easily turn around and say 'viewership of of the other series increased because of the new movies,' right? You're guessing, just like the rest of us.

The thing about merch is also full of assumptions. We never really had any official word of what went on there, and the nu merch doesn't sell as well simply because there's not a lot of it. When all NuTrek has out is a few models and a comic series, I'd hope that the classic line was selling better.

The thing about Abrams being driven to Star Wars was just pulled wholesale out of your arse. Besides the obvious reason for why he didn't say 'no' when Disney said 'Jump, bitch', he's still producing Star Trek. If he's trying to distance himself from it, he's not doing a good job by wearing Beyond's production jacket on the Star Wars set.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I don't understand why people get so upset about Abrams doing Star Wars.

It's sort of like that jokey thing people do with their SOs "The one person I'd cheat on you for..." For just about any director born after 1965, Star Wars is that "person."

The difference, of course, is directing a film from a different franchise isn't emotionally hurtful or disrespectful. It isn't morally ambiguous or sacrosanct. It doesn't break any vow or cultural precept. Yet, for whatever reason, many act like that's exactly what he did.

 

[Rahul]

Oh boy. There's a lot to unravel here...

Rahul, you know we can just as easily turn around and say 'viewership of of the other series increased because of the new movies,' right? You're guessing, just like the rest of us.

Reading is not exactly your finest skill, right? This was from THIS PAGE:

That's the point. The new series wasn't ordered because of the success of the new movies. The new series was ordered because of how good the Trek series sold in online streaming. (THAT was definetely helped by the new movies, though).

Also:

1.) How is anybody butthurt about JJ "crossing streams"? I have seen no one being angry that he switched to Wars.

2.) So, as drt said, there actually IS an article stating exactly what I said. You ignore it because it doesn't match your opinions? Fine. I don't know how much of that was actual inside information and what imagination. I'm not a business insider. I just mentioned it because it is something that actually exist. Compared to all the stuff you just pulled.

3.) Why do you treat any argument concerning the topic of this post as a personal attack on yourself and your love for the JJmovies?

4) Again: CARE TO ELABORATE?

We have heard nothing useful from your side concerning the topic. No arguments. Not even a logical assumption. Every post basically reads: "na na na no YOU are wrong for wanting new stuff and not kneeling on the altar of Abrams-Trek"

Why would I visit this thread for that? I want to hear YOUR opinions. And hell, I would actually enjoy counter-arguments. Because that's what we are here for, to debate and speculate. But if you don't have any, why post here at all?

 

[Trekkin]

'Crossing streams'? Personal attacks? What the hell are you on about?

I read the article when it came out. As has already been mentioned, it was one article from an unconfirmed source.

Considering we get those all the time (speculation that Beyond wasn't going to happen, that Abrams wasn't going to do STID because of fallouts with Paramount, the Nuseries was going to end after movie 3 etc) and the actual authors of the yanked NuTrek books claim even they don't really know what exactly happened, excuse me if I'm not exactly convinced.

 

[Kemaiku]

"It's good to finally be back in the original universe."

*Earth explodes for no reason*

"...god DAMNIT."

 

[Rahul]

I actually enjoy the new movies. But all this preemptive personal attacks because everyone assumes there's a possibility you don't enjoy them (or even, gasp!, prefer OLD Trek!) can really get on your nerves. And even though it shouldn't matter, because it has nothing to do with it, this constant harrassment from those selfproclaimed "JJ-defenders" can REALLY taint your enjoyment of those movies...