Star Trek 2017 will not be set in the JJ-Verse
- Thread starter fyre
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Don't they have series bibles anyway to keep tech basics & character personalities consistent? This seems like a theoretical non-problem. How many times did they actually run into extreme contradictions? It's not like the series is made by goldfish who don't understand their own show. It doesn't matter if there are 7 hours or 7000 hours of pre-existing cannon, if you keep your own rules the same & not be a self-referential hack, you're all set.
I was under the impression that the TOS bible actually said something like 'don't worry about that sort of thing, just make the story good.' TOS sure as hell never told us how big the Enterprise was.
How is the size of the Vengeance a continuity error, anyway? It's brand spanking new, besides being a reference to 'Dreadnought' from the EU. It easily could have existed in the Prime verse, and the only drawback would be that it would make the TOS Enterprise's look tiny. Which was kind of the point, when you think about it.
If I was going to nominate 'ships visually not matching how big they're said to be', then V'ger would take the cake, at least in the original version I watched. I'm fairly certain my DVD has a dubbed line to make it smaller.
How is the size of the Vengeance a continuity error, anyway? It's brand spanking new, besides being a reference to 'Dreadnought' from the EU. It easily could have existed in the Prime verse, and the only drawback would be that it would make the TOS Enterprise's look tiny. Which was kind of the point, when you think about it.
If I was going to nominate 'ships visually not matching how big they're said to be', then V'ger would take the cake, at least in the original version I watched. I'm fairly certain my DVD has a dubbed line to make it smaller.
Pretty certain we've discussed how Transwarp wouldn't be helpful for 90% of what we see Starfleet doing. Even if you ignore the EU stuff about how it's bad for normal humans over too long of a distance, it wouldn't be extraordinarily useful for 'exploring uncharted space' (who wants to be the first to beam into the blank spot on the space map?) and 'defence.'
Plus, s31 nicked it.
And also not a plot hole.
Plus, s31 nicked it.
And also not a plot hole.
What exactly then, is this thread about? If no one cares about the show maintaining consistency with the rest of Star Trek, what does it matter which timeline it's set in?
They could set the show in 2017, slap Star Trek in the title. Have people walking around with Samsung tricorders and driving Corvettes into shuttles. Only fanboys care about the details like dates and ship dimensions.
They could set the show in 2017, slap Star Trek in the title. Have people walking around with Samsung tricorders and driving Corvettes into shuttles. Only fanboys care about the details like dates and ship dimensions.
Those are just numbers.
Yes, ultimately unless this show is literally History Lesson: The Show, it can be set in either Prime or JJ or neither with equal ease. It all depends solely on what style they want to have. IF they want to set it in the Prime universe they wouldn't do it & not want to be bothered learning the basics.
If they want to make the show about Vulcan being at war with Earth because they want to eat us & also they are blue for some reason, then it won't be in Prime.
When people talk about cannon violations I picture something like inexplicably Scotty being the Medical officer instead of the Engineer for one episode. That's what a Producer & series bible is meant to stop from happening, it's not really a concern.
Minor cannon errors aren't a problem. They decided "fuck it, the Romulans have forehead ridges & warp drive now" on TNG. Whatever.
If they want to make the show about Vulcan being at war with Earth because they want to eat us & also they are blue for some reason, then it won't be in Prime.
When people talk about cannon violations I picture something like inexplicably Scotty being the Medical officer instead of the Engineer for one episode. That's what a Producer & series bible is meant to stop from happening, it's not really a concern.
Minor cannon errors aren't a problem. They decided "fuck it, the Romulans have forehead ridges & warp drive now" on TNG. Whatever.
Fair enough... though its existence does render quite a few crisis in other scenarios of Star Trek moot. Anyway... these things have been argued endlessly already.
There's always been three choices for a timeline. Prime Universe, Alternate Universe and a third timeline.
There's good reason why Alex Kurtzman would develop the show to be set in the alternate timeline created in the 2009 film. He is 1/3 or 1/4 of the creative force behind it. No one would blame him for setting the show in that same timeline... but to what end?
Paramount wants a 4th and possibly even a 5th Star Trek film with Chris Pine and Co, if reported contract agreements are to be believed. That means any new show set in or around the events of Star Trek/STiD would require a lot of synergy and communication between the TV and Film side.
Agents of Shield/MCU is a great example of how awkward and constraining it is to do that even if it's planned from the get-go.
So if it's set in the JJ-verse, it'd have to be either a pre-quel... which is in the prime-verse... or a sequel... which would lead to even more conflicts with the prime-universe.
When they decided to do Into Darkness they were pestered with the question, "When are you guys gonna do Khan?" over and over... and over again. And they decided to do Khan, only not quite the same Khan with these "echoes of the story" elements. ...and it was largely derided as a "TWoK" rip-off.
Imagine them dealing with that for the entire series... comparing it to the ToS-movies era or the TNG era of whenever they decide to set it in the JJ-verse.
Any homage they decide to pay to great moments in Star Trek will be called rip-offs. Anytime they do something vastly different they'll get accused of shredding canon by fanboys like me.
Instead... why not just go... a little bit beyond the primeverse? Set it after Star Trek: Online... or post-Hobus Supernova... There is a good reason why this might be the case.
Leslie Moonves, who historically has HATED Star Trek production at Paramount, considering it a low-ratings waste from 2000-2006 now says this:
"All the series have done well in terms of streaming... Added in to that, Star Trek is a huge international franchise. Our international distribution guy is going crazy; he can't wait to get out to the marketplace and sell that. Right away, we're more than halfway home on the cost of the show from international alone. The risk is small in seeing the track record. We think it'll be great and bring in a lot more subscribers. We're really excited about it."
Leslie Moonves is a shrewd businessman. When Nielson ratings of Voyager and Enterprise were low, he thought of Star Trek contemptuously. Now that streaming is the absolute future of television, Star Trek looks like a sparkling diamond.
It's not 4 hours of Star Trek (2009) and Star Trek Into Darkness that people all over the world are streaming. It's 700+ hours of a library of 5 television shows that people are falling (obsessively and fanboyishly) in love with.
They're falling in love with Kirk and Spock, Shatner and Nimoy. Picard and Riker, Data and Worf. Janeway and Seven of Nine. Bashir and O'Brien... and hell, even Trip and T'Pol. Wouldn't it be nice to go back to that playground where all of these beloved characters are? Isn't that what we all want?
What better way to make money than to give fans what they want? I think it's a good bet that the new show takes place beyond the TNG era...
I don't really care which century it's set in, or which universe/timeline. As long as it's good.
^ I agree. I'd love good Star Trek wherever it comes from. But there's a particular reason why I'd like a new show set in the TNG era. From 1987-2003 I witnessed an epic saga unfold over three series--that covered 15 consecutive years in this universe. (21 seasons in total and a few films) I saw characters age and evolve, fall in love and die tragically. I saw empires rising and falling, villians that were terrifying in their power. Wars that consumed the galaxy. . I grew up on this story. Not all of it was great... There were some very disappointing moments and finales but for all of its highs and lows it was greater than the sum of its parts because it was all connected. These characters would live on, the story would go on and there was so much of it left to explore, so many stories yet to tell. I miss it so much. A two hour movie released every couple years which is set over a hundred years prior in an alternate universe every three years is a nice little visit... but it's just not enough.
I miss the mythology, the universe building, the epic scale of it... I miss the new ships that fit into the familiar lineage. The new uniforms, weapons and technology. I don't think I'm alone.
I miss the mythology, the universe building, the epic scale of it... I miss the new ships that fit into the familiar lineage. The new uniforms, weapons and technology. I don't think I'm alone.
In your dealings did you ever have an idea struck down because of canon or did you try and not dig down that far?
I think that when a free-lance writer pitches it's good to keep it in broad strokes - you've only got a couple of sentences to get the producers interested - and it's not a good idea to propose a story that alters something about a show's format or characters. I'm sure it's worked, but you're just increasing the difficulty of acceptance for yourself.
Bear in mind, I'm saying this as someone who never successfully sold a script on a pitch. I really enjoyed pitching, but my two Trek assignments came 1) on a spec submission and 2) at the invitation of Michael Piller who already had the story concept in hand.
Anyway, I'm enough of a trekkie that I don't think I'd have tripped over a major piece of continuity in constructing a pitch. If a story idea really grabbed them they'd have figured out a way to address any continuity issue it introduced - finding stories they could use was a lot harder work than rationalizing variances in "canon."
Bear in mind, I'm saying this as someone who never successfully sold a script on a pitch. I really enjoyed pitching, but my two Trek assignments came 1) on a spec submission and 2) at the invitation of Michael Piller who already had the story concept in hand.
Anyway, I'm enough of a trekkie that I don't think I'd have tripped over a major piece of continuity in constructing a pitch. If a story idea really grabbed them they'd have figured out a way to address any continuity issue it introduced - finding stories they could use was a lot harder work than rationalizing variances in "canon."
Then I submit you don't understand the problem. There's a question of accessibility to new fans. Also, starting over from scratch allows you to use the core ideas of the franchise without having to maintain continuity with a large number of in-universe events, many of them silly.
Reboots aren't bad. They allow the studio to get a clean slate, and also the freedom to build a new continuity.
Michael Dorn says the new series isn't Captain Worf, and it set in the JJ-verse.http://www.treknews.net/2015/11/08/dorn-confirms-new-star-trek-not-captain-worf-series/
Hey, the Defiant kept changing size in DS9, and although the Dominion had similar long range beaming they never used it to blow up Starfleet HQ, Deep Space Nine or anything at all from light-years away. Did these things upset you, or did you not even notice?
Hey, the Defiant kept changing size in DS9, and although the Dominion had similar long range beaming they never used it to blow up Starfleet HQ, Deep Space Nine or anything at all from light-years away. Did these things upset you, or did you not even notice?
Did Dorn ever come across as legitimately thinking there would be a Worf series? Or was it just 'rah rah' convention talk?
The Khan comic actually had S31 using the transwarp tech for what the Dominion should have been doing with theirs - transporting fucking bombs into the middle of enemy territory. Also a good reason to keep it a secret from both your enemies and most of the Federation.
The Khan comic actually had S31 using the transwarp tech for what the Dominion should have been doing with theirs - transporting fucking bombs into the middle of enemy territory. Also a good reason to keep it a secret from both your enemies and most of the Federation.
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