Star Trek 2009 vs Star Wars 7 (NO SPOILERS)

[DarKush]

Star Wars was treated with a lot more respect to the source material, giving the ageing original actors substantial roles. With Star Trek they wanted to get as far away as possible from it, and had the mindset that the original actors are so old and boring that they should not be included, or just with a very limited amount of screentime.

Had they structured Star Trek like Force Awakens, Leonard Nimoy's Spock would have actually confronted Nero.

They also took Stormtroopers, that over time had turned into a pop culture running gag, and made them more serious. In Trek, they totally gave in to the redshirt trope and continued to make fun of it.

Same for the Star Wars design. They took everything from the originals and made faithful copies. They even went as far as using old Ralph McQuarrie designs from the 70s and realized them in the 2010s. There was no "I want the Millenium Falcon to look like a retro hotrod".

Same for the music. Giacchino didn't include any themes from Trek except for the end credits.

Somehow, Star Wars fans are also considered more intelligent. So there was no need to include songs and vehicles from the 20th century to make it more "down-to-Earth". There was also no need to include Earth to make the threat feel more serious. They even introduced a new planet for the Republic government, and introduced the Resistance. Lindelof would have reasoned that this totally confused the audience, and that it needed to be Coruscant and the Rebellion in order to work. There was also no need to give the characters teenage problems to make them more relatable to the general audience. They had adult relationships, problems and behaviour patterns, unlike what they did to Uhura and Spock.

Star Wars fans were also treated with more respect. There were no bashes against subscribers of Lightsaber's Monthly. Instead, the makers themselves subscribed to those magazines in order to recreate all the technical aspects as faithfully as possible.

I don't know if Star Wars fans are more respected or considered more intelligent. However Star Wars is a bigger, more respected franchise because its made a lot more money than Star Trek. And while the prequels were considered subpar they still raked in tons of money and sold tons of merchandise, and it spawned a successful cartoon series in The Clone Wars. And right before TFA you had Rebels.

And in TFA Stormtroopers were still used as comic relief to some extent. Heck, the man Stormtrooper Finn provided a lot of comic relief. And there was a funny scene where the two Stormtroopers turn around to avoid Ren's tantrum. I don't see that any different than the jokes made about redshirts in Trek '09 and Into Darkness.

With Trek, I think there was more of a desire on the part of Paramount to make changes. Nemesis was a failure and so was Enterprise and the Trek brand was tarnished in a way that Star Wars never was. Trek was struggling for relevance which necessitated Paramount feeling the need to make deeper changes than with Star Wars.

That being said, it's arguable that the Abrams films have paid respect to the Trek history of the franchise, with various call outs/call backs, and the inclusion of characters like Pike, and name drops like Christine Chapel. Heck, Into Darkness went overboard with referencing Trek lore. And with the nature of the alternate universe it makes it hard to use other original Trek characters or other Trek characters besides Spock. Though it would be great to at least see all of the original main cast members in Beyond. I don't know how they would do it? Maybe have them play different characters stranded on the planet, but their inclusion in some way would be great.

 

[Shazam!]

I don't know if Star Wars fans are more respected or considered more intelligent. However Star Wars is a bigger, more respected franchise because its made a lot more money than Star Trek. And while the prequels were considered subpar they still raked in tons of money and sold tons of merchandise, and it spawned a successful cartoon series in The Clone Wars. And right before TFA you had Rebels.

I think Trek fans were considered more intelligent in the academic sense of the word (Star Trek being for nerds and all that) but I think Star Wars fans are possibly considered more media savvy and hip.

And in TFA Stormtroopers were still used as comic relief to some extent. Heck, the man Stormtrooper Finn provided a lot of comic relief. And there was a funny scene where the two Stormtroopers turn around to avoid Ren's tantrum. I don't see that any different than the jokes made about redshirts in Trek '09 and Into Darkness.

The difference is that TFA didn't start making jokes about Stormtroopers being a terrible aim. Trek 09 perpetuated the Redshirt trope whereas TFA subverted the Trooper one.

That being said, it's arguable that the Abrams films have paid respect to the Trek history of the franchise, with various call outs/call backs, and the inclusion of characters like Pike, and name drops like Christine Chapel. Heck, Into Darkness went overboard with referencing Trek lore. And with the nature of the alternate universe it makes it hard to use other original Trek characters or other Trek characters besides Spock. Though it would be great to at least see all of the original main cast members in Beyond. I don't know how they would do it? Maybe have them play different characters stranded on the planet, but their inclusion in some way would be great.

Name dropping and call backs are the most superficial form of 'respect'. I didn't like the chess board or Jedi training ball in TFA but I'm glad there was no random mention of Wedge or Lando.

As for old Spock and Nero, they didn't even share dialogue did they? That seems a bit of a waste.

 

[Trekkin]

Wedge was meant to be there. Lawson turned them down because he's in England doing television. Lando is apparently on 'maybe next time' notice.

Nero and Nimoy Spock share a scene in Spocks mind-meld flashback, don't they?

 

[Shazam!]

Scenes but not dialogue (I might be wrong though)

Also, I know Wedge was supposed to be there but Lawson said he wasn't interested and a deal couldn't be reached in time with Lando. My point was I'm glad they didn't name check them for no reason.

 

[Booji]

time travel has always been part of star trek mythology. however trek 2009 was a lot more original and daring than star wars tfa. disney restricted tfa a little too much.

I'm not sure what is original about ST9. Regurgitated time travel plot, reused original series members, a planet destroying super weapon... And daring? That's a very strange term to use since there was absolutely nothing daring about it for the reasons listed about it not being original. Maybe you can say Star Wars is not your cup of tea, but to say ST9 was original or daring compared to TFA simply has no truth to it. They both suffer from many of the same problems. The thing TFA has going for it are better villains and a more engaging plot. ST9 has arguably the worst villain in cinema history and the story, due to that fact, is boring. But to each there own.

 

[Trekkin]

True. It's the sort of thing that falls in the 'not needed pile."

Though there was something for us to remember Lando by:

 

[Admiral2]

True. It's the sort of thing that falls in the 'not needed pile."

Though there was something for us to remember Lando by:

I guess original parts are hard to come by for a centuries old freighter...

 

[USS Firefly]

I liked the Startrek 09 a lot more than TFA, I was a little dissapointed with TFA because of the copying of the story from EP 4

 

[eyeresist]

With Trek, I think there was more of a desire on the part of Paramount to make changes. Nemesis was a failure and so was Enterprise and the Trek brand was tarnished in a way that Star Wars never was. Trek was struggling for relevance which necessitated Paramount feeling the need to make deeper changes than with Star Wars.

This is true. Ever since TMP, Trek has struggled with the reputation of being boring. Its biggest hits were sold with the message "This one is actually fun". I think we will need a couple more NuTrek hits before we can start talking about that issue being in the past.

With Star Wars OTOH the wide consensus was that the prequels were a blip in an otherwise super-cool franchise. As has been widely observed, the main thing TFA had to do was just not suck. Then the good will of the fans would carry it over the line.

 

[JarodRussell]

Sydow's role could have been Lando's actually. A long time friend of Solo and Skywalker, who still considers Leia a princess.

 

[Dales]

I wonder how much Mark Hamill was paid for Episode 7.

rumour has it that it was 1 million dollars

 

[The Old Mixer]

^Negotiated by his agent, Dr. Evil.

 

[RAMA]

There's a definite irony that JJ is a big SW fan but his ST work was superior. Sometimes there has to be a distance to see things clearly. SW:FA was just too clumsy and middling to really be a great movie.

 

[atlantalliance]

both were a lot of flash bang, both had poor moments but I enjoyed Star Trek more...maybe its the writing or the characters but I just found the whole Star Wars verse to be a little shallow

 

[FADM Tribble]

For me, both films are disappointing entries to their franchises. The only issues I have with them, plus Into Darkness, is I felt they had weak stories and plots. While they're technically well made and fun to watch, neither film is what I would consider particularly good.

 

[Set Harth]

a deal couldn't be reached in time with Lando.

When you're Abrams and your whole deal revolves around imitating the great movies from your childhood, you do Khan in your second movie, because they did Khan in the second movie of the original series. Second movie, time to do Khan! It's a no-brainer! ( Literally. )

When you're now making Star Wars, you don't put Lando in the first movie, because Lando wasn't in the first movie in the original trilogy. Lando turned up in the second movie. First movie, no Lando! Another no-brainer!