Star Trek 2009 vs Star Wars 7 (NO SPOILERS)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Dales, Dec 19, 2015.

  1. Dales

    Dales Captain Captain

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    time travel has always been part of star trek mythology. however trek 2009 was a lot more original and daring than star wars tfa. disney restricted tfa a little too much.
     
  2. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't know if Star Wars fans are more respected or considered more intelligent. However Star Wars is a bigger, more respected franchise because its made a lot more money than Star Trek. And while the prequels were considered subpar they still raked in tons of money and sold tons of merchandise, and it spawned a successful cartoon series in The Clone Wars. And right before TFA you had Rebels.

    And in TFA Stormtroopers were still used as comic relief to some extent. Heck, the man Stormtrooper Finn provided a lot of comic relief. And there was a funny scene where the two Stormtroopers turn around to avoid Ren's tantrum. I don't see that any different than the jokes made about redshirts in Trek '09 and Into Darkness.

    With Trek, I think there was more of a desire on the part of Paramount to make changes. Nemesis was a failure and so was Enterprise and the Trek brand was tarnished in a way that Star Wars never was. Trek was struggling for relevance which necessitated Paramount feeling the need to make deeper changes than with Star Wars.

    That being said, it's arguable that the Abrams films have paid respect to the Trek history of the franchise, with various call outs/call backs, and the inclusion of characters like Pike, and name drops like Christine Chapel. Heck, Into Darkness went overboard with referencing Trek lore. And with the nature of the alternate universe it makes it hard to use other original Trek characters or other Trek characters besides Spock. Though it would be great to at least see all of the original main cast members in Beyond. I don't know how they would do it? Maybe have them play different characters stranded on the planet, but their inclusion in some way would be great.
     
  3. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Trek fans were considered more intelligent in the academic sense of the word (Star Trek being for nerds and all that) but I think Star Wars fans are possibly considered more media savvy and hip.

    The difference is that TFA didn't start making jokes about Stormtroopers being a terrible aim. Trek 09 perpetuated the Redshirt trope whereas TFA subverted the Trooper one.

    Name dropping and call backs are the most superficial form of 'respect'. I didn't like the chess board or Jedi training ball in TFA but I'm glad there was no random mention of Wedge or Lando.

    As for old Spock and Nero, they didn't even share dialogue did they? That seems a bit of a waste.
     
  4. Hela

    Hela Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wedge was meant to be there. Lawson turned them down because he's in England doing television. Lando is apparently on 'maybe next time' notice.

    Nero and Nimoy Spock share a scene in Spocks mind-meld flashback, don't they?
     
  5. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Scenes but not dialogue (I might be wrong though)

    Also, I know Wedge was supposed to be there but Lawson said he wasn't interested and a deal couldn't be reached in time with Lando. My point was I'm glad they didn't name check them for no reason.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2015
  6. Booji

    Booji The artist formerly known as FlavaFlav Premium Member

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    I'm not sure what is original about ST9. Regurgitated time travel plot, reused original series members, a planet destroying super weapon... And daring? That's a very strange term to use since there was absolutely nothing daring about it for the reasons listed about it not being original. Maybe you can say Star Wars is not your cup of tea, but to say ST9 was original or daring compared to TFA simply has no truth to it. They both suffer from many of the same problems. The thing TFA has going for it are better villains and a more engaging plot. ST9 has arguably the worst villain in cinema history and the story, due to that fact, is boring. But to each there own.
     
  7. Hela

    Hela Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    True. It's the sort of thing that falls in the 'not needed pile."

    Though there was something for us to remember Lando by:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Admiral Admiral

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    I guess original parts are hard to come by for a centuries old freighter...
     
  9. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commodore Commodore

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    I liked the Startrek 09 a lot more than TFA, I was a little dissapointed with TFA because of the copying of the story from EP 4
     
  10. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is true. Ever since TMP, Trek has struggled with the reputation of being boring. Its biggest hits were sold with the message "This one is actually fun". I think we will need a couple more NuTrek hits before we can start talking about that issue being in the past.

    With Star Wars OTOH the wide consensus was that the prequels were a blip in an otherwise super-cool franchise. As has been widely observed, the main thing TFA had to do was just not suck. Then the good will of the fans would carry it over the line.
     
  11. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sydow's role could have been Lando's actually. A long time friend of Solo and Skywalker, who still considers Leia a princess.
     
  12. Foxhot

    Foxhot Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wonder how much Mark Hamill was paid for Episode 7.
     
  13. Dales

    Dales Captain Captain

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    rumour has it that it was 1 million dollars
     
  14. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    ^Negotiated by his agent, Dr. Evil.
     
  15. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    There's a definite irony that JJ is a big SW fan but his ST work was superior. Sometimes there has to be a distance to see things clearly. SW:FA was just too clumsy and middling to really be a great movie.
     
  16. atlantalliance

    atlantalliance Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    both were a lot of flash bang, both had poor moments but I enjoyed Star Trek more...maybe its the writing or the characters but I just found the whole Star Wars verse to be a little shallow
     
  17. FADM Tribble

    FADM Tribble Ensign Red Shirt

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    For me, both films are disappointing entries to their franchises. The only issues I have with them, plus Into Darkness, is I felt they had weak stories and plots. While they're technically well made and fun to watch, neither film is what I would consider particularly good.
     
  18. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    When you're Abrams and your whole deal revolves around imitating the great movies from your childhood, you do Khan in your second movie, because they did Khan in the second movie of the original series. Second movie, time to do Khan! It's a no-brainer! ( Literally. )

    When you're now making Star Wars, you don't put Lando in the first movie, because Lando wasn't in the first movie in the original trilogy. Lando turned up in the second movie. First movie, no Lando! Another no-brainer!