Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Qonundrum, Feb 3, 2021.
It wasn't shown in the US.
So? Did I say where it had to be shown or in what format? It exists.
I mean... I wasn't implying that it was actually softcore porn, but that it was an attempt to have it on the show. They made it as close as they could get away with on broadcast television. Those scenes were very clearly meant to be erotic. There was another scene in the third season where they are massaging each other and T'Pol is like "oh yeah, just like that, harder, etc.". I mean, common, lol.
I think Sci's comment was about it being broadcast on the United States network being extremely unlikely to the point of absurdity. But, I may have misread.
An uncovered buttocks is not nudity. It is certainly an attempt at titillation, and it may even go beyond what the FCC will allow on broadcast television. But it is not nudity, and showing it is not pornography.
That sentence doesn't make a lot of sense.
Obviously it was an attempt at titillation, and it was sexually objectifying. But it's not pornography by any meaningful sense of the term. It's not nudity. Genitals were not shown, breasts were not uncovered, and actors were not photographed engaging in sex.
Yes. And that's not pornography, hardcore or softcore. It's sexually objectifying, juvenile, and bad writing. But it's not pornography.
To me it's as if the writers were trying to figure out how to get softcore porn into the show without an actual love scene and within the confines of what the FCC would allow on network television and this was the result. So no, it was not porn, but it was the closest they could get. Like someone else said, it's almost like the intro scene. Not that I would know or anything, a friend told me. Err, I mean I watched it for the articles one time.
Even that is an assertion so extreme that it's not reasonable. It would be reasonable to say that they were trying to put sexually charged scenes on the show, but other broadcast dramas -- I'm thinking particularly on NYPD Blue on ABC -- had already had much more explicit sex scenes on network television than anything ENT did. Furthermore, even saying, "They wanted to get away with as much risque content as they could" is a very, very different assertion than saying, "They tried to do something as close to pornography as possible."
Pornography means the performers are actually having sex; that was never, ever on the table for ENT. The FCC would never allow it; UPN would never allow it; the actors would never consent to it and the Screen Actors Guild would never allow it. Even something like the relatively more sexually explicit HBO programs like Game of Thrones could never get away with something like that.
I think you're reacting to the level of sexual objectification (which was quite high) rather than to the actual content.
There is such a thing as softcore pornograpy, which is that titillation, that tease of something more explicit. Calling something pornography doesn't mean explicit sexual acts on screen.
You said no actual nudity was photographed, which was wrong. And is your definition of pornography as correct?
Where it was broadcast had nothing to do with my statement that Sci felt compelled to respond to.
I am just stating my interpretation of their statement. Nothing more; nothing less.
I'm more interested in comparing Jeri Ryan's experience on Voyager versus her experience on Picard, and comparing VOY Seven to PIC Seven.
On VOY, Jeri Ryan had to deal with the Queen Bee (Kate Mulgrew) and felt she had to go out with Brannon Braga (eww) just for job security. She wasn't wanted there by those jealous of her. Jeri Ryan doesn't have to deal with any of that on Picard.
VOY Seven was dolled up. PIC Seven isn't. VOY Seven was pretty much stuck on Voyager. PIC Seven can go wherever she wants. VOY Seven was always being told how great the Alpha Quadrant was, even though she didn't really believe it. PIC Seven can tell them they were full of shit.
And Picard's now reached a point -- thanks to his disgust with Current Starfleet -- where he and Seven are somewhat more on the same page than Seven and Janeway ever were. VOY, like TNG, held Starfleet up as an ideal. PIC shows the cracks and how it's not the only answer.
PIC takes things a step further than DS9. DS9 still focused on a Starfleet crew even if it was on a Bajoran station. In PIC, everyone is either Ex-Starfleet or Non-Starfleet. They're completely outside Starfleet's jurisdiction. It's the first Star Trek series to ever be. So I like PIC better than earlier series because it doesn't feel like propaganda, which earlier Star Trek can kind of feel like sometimes.
Even if she liked being on Voyager better she would never say it right now. It's always good to promote the show you are on over the one you use to be on. I think she likely though does prefer her Picard experience because of more comfortable clothes and no Kate Mulgrew but also she doesn't have to work as much. Nobody is asking her to show up for 22 episodes. She has more time to do other stuff if she wants and by now I am guessing she is rich enough she doesn't have to do to much stuff she doesn't want to just for money.
I liked the catsuit. It was meant to mimic a simple perfect suit. 7 liked perfection and wouldn't have wanted a sloppy suit. Also she looked in good in it.
I thought bringing Seven on was a brilliant move and I loved what they did with her character. It made sense from an acting standpoint because Jeri Ryan is the top tier of legacy Trek actors. It made sense from a character standpoint because Seven is an interesting character. It made sense from a Picard standpoint because Seven and Picard are connected through their Borg past and their common disillusionment with Starfleet.
As I said before I think the best thing about Seven's character in Picard is it lets Jeri Ryan display more of her acting range, which really is a treat. We only caught glimpses of it in VOY outside of the mono-tone Seven persona (like the time Seven was being overwhelmed by the personalities of the people she assimilated or the time she switched with the Doctor).
I really hope they have her as a regular in S2.
Also, I hope Anges gets the boot, send her to jail.
That or at least have them say outright, in no uncertain terms, that Agnes was completely under the control of Commodore Oh during that time, because of the mind-meld. It would be a dramatic cheat but at least they would've addressed it and the line of reasoning can work on Star Trek terms. "They did something to her!" As it is, they've just brushed it under the rug completely.
James Swallow mentioned in a recent interview he had told Kirsten Beyer that he wanted to write a Seven O f nine book and told her his ideas .Kirsten told him that they planned on having a season 2 episode where we get Seven's backstory and told him she liked his story ideas for the season 2 tv episode.
Seven and Picard's skills complement each other. Seven is as much an expert fighting on the ground as Picard is at flying starships (and fwiw, she's no slouch as a pilot herself).
There are going to be times when Picard is going to need someone who can break down doors, kick a#$, and take names. Seven is that person.
Picard exists in a cold, cruel universe where you're not always going to be able to hug out your problems.
Seven is a foil for Picard. She's Xena to Picard's Hercules. She's Batman to Picard's Superman.
Whereas Picard mostly fights in the light of day, she's more often than not fighting in the back alleys at night.
I never thought for a second that she was being outright mind-controlled by Oh. What I do think happened is that being exposed to the Admonition made her temporarily (we presume) insane...most of the Romulans exposed to it were gouging out their eyes, tearing out their hair, etc.
If they explore Seven's backstory then that might be how we see the EMH. Maybe even Janeway since she is already doing the cartoon for them. Maybe even a single scene involving the catsuit much like how we got to see Picard and Data in the old TNG outfits. Jason
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