Yeah, effortlessly. He was made captain of the newest flagship three years after deciding to go to the academy on a whim. In the next film, he should have to overcome his gross inexperience and prove to himself that he belongs on the Enterprise.
ST XI issues you want tackled in the sequel
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Yeah, effortlessly. He was made captain of the newest flagship three years after deciding to go to the academy on a whim. In the next film, he should have to overcome his gross inexperience and prove to himself that he belongs on the Enterprise.
Yeah, effortlessly. He was made captain of the newest flagship three years after deciding to go to the academy on a whim. In the next film, he should have to overcome his gross inexperience and prove to himself that he belongs on the Enterprise.
Ah, you were referring to the "cadet to captain" thing...
I thought your "effortlessly" was just referring to the what he went through until Nero was defeated.
The "cadet to captain" (actually Lieutenant to Captain) can be explained easy enough. Have Pike in command once again, with Kirk and Spock serving under him. Then do a flash-forward a few years.
It would have been better if they had done something like that, with the flash-forward and all at the end of XI.
Now, what's done is done and Kirk is the captain and Pike is relieved.
So, with the fleet engaged in the Laurentian system (why the hell was it there anyway?), all the cadets received provisional ranks? Not Kirk though, he was grounded.
Well, my way of rationalizing this rapid promotion is that Admiral Pike personally vouched for Kirk, after he had already proven himself competent by saving Earth.
Anyway, I'd like a scene in the sequel in which Pike tells Kirk something like "I put my hard earned reputation on the line for you Jim, so don't make me look like a punk now, OK?"
Well, my way of rationalizing this rapid promotion is that Admiral Pike personally vouched for Kirk, after he had already proven himself competent by saving Earth.
Anyway, I'd like a scene in the sequel in which Pike tells Kirk something like "I put my hard earned reputation on the line for you Jim, so don't make me look like a punk now, OK?"
That was part of it. Also, he just so happened to bump into a guy who was willing and able to get him into the academy, had a friend who walked him on to the Enterprise, was conveniently handed the information that indicated the attack on Vulcan, was named first officer ten minutes after he woke up on the ship, bumped into old Spock by mistake, took command of the Enterprise with minimal effort, etc.
Thus far, most of Kirk's starfleet career can be attributed to being in the right place at the right time. In the sequel, I'd like to see him really struggle for every inch and experience at least a moment of self doubt.
ST XI issues you want tackled in the sequel
Where the frell are the women? What are their roles? I did not sit through years of Star Trek hoping for better rolls for women, getting it (Deep Space Nine, Voyager, (God help me) Enterprise), and having it all taken back to square one. Short skirts, no authoritative figures, no presence of inspiration and no important role on the bridge.
Kirk's Mom was in Starfleet, so why not use her as a source of inspiration? Hero and no hero, it's always gotta be the same bloody trope. Mother's do their part and get written off.
I swear to god, "You're mother's assigned off planet" is almost as bad as "Doesn't arrive till Tuesday".
Quit writing off the women!
Where the frell are the women? What are their roles? I did not sit through years of Star Trek hoping for better rolls for women, getting it (Deep Space Nine, Voyager, (God help me) Enterprise), and having it all taken back to square one. Short skirts, no authoritative figures, no presence of inspiration and no important role on the bridge.
Kirk's Mom was in Starfleet, so why not use her as a source of inspiration? Hero and no hero, it's always gotta be the same bloody trope. Mother's do their part and get written off.
I swear to god, "You're mother's assigned off planet" is almost as bad as "Doesn't arrive till Tuesday".
Quit writing off the women!
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THE WOMEN !!!
1) Why was the fleet engaged in the Laurentian system ?
2) How a third year cadet is made captain, regardless of his actions.
3) Why Uhura, who outranked Kirk, didn't take command when the big chair was empty. Or one of the other dozens or hundreds of officers -- Lieutenants, Lieutenant Commanders, Commanders -- aboard a big ass ship like the nu-Enterprise.
4) BECAUSE THAT THE WAY THE SCRIPT WAS WRITTEN ISN'T A REASON.
5) A passing referance to the fate of the surviving Vulcans.
6) Have Spock get Sarek off the cholesterol so there's no heart attack on the "Journey to Babel"
7) More non-human SF officers.
8) Kirk meets Carol Marcus, McCoy slips Kirk a string of condoms.
9) Bar fight, establishing both that Kirk can't avoid a bar fight and also can't win one.
10) Rachel Nichols as a new character with no body make-up. In fact, have her in every sequel with a different look, she and Kirk have sex in every film.
2) How a third year cadet is made captain, regardless of his actions.
3) Why Uhura, who outranked Kirk, didn't take command when the big chair was empty. Or one of the other dozens or hundreds of officers -- Lieutenants, Lieutenant Commanders, Commanders -- aboard a big ass ship like the nu-Enterprise.
4) BECAUSE THAT THE WAY THE SCRIPT WAS WRITTEN ISN'T A REASON.
5) A passing referance to the fate of the surviving Vulcans.
6) Have Spock get Sarek off the cholesterol so there's no heart attack on the "Journey to Babel"
7) More non-human SF officers.
8) Kirk meets Carol Marcus, McCoy slips Kirk a string of condoms.
9) Bar fight, establishing both that Kirk can't avoid a bar fight and also can't win one.
10) Rachel Nichols as a new character with no body make-up. In fact, have her in every sequel with a different look, she and Kirk have sex in every film.
Heaven help me, I agree with Kelso.
Kirk needs to really prove himself next movie. I think it will be good for the plot, and good for the character, to be compelled or forced to prove that he earned the right to be in that chair. Much has been stated about the need for 'angst' in regards to Spock, but Kirk's 'angst' could come from his need to prove he deserved the promotion and overcome the doubts others may have.
Abrams could have saved himself some grief by merely placing the words 3 Years Later on the screen between defeat of Nero and captaincy of the Enterprise. It would have made it much more palatable to many fans and barely noticed by non-fans watching the movie.
Kirk needs to really prove himself next movie. I think it will be good for the plot, and good for the character, to be compelled or forced to prove that he earned the right to be in that chair. Much has been stated about the need for 'angst' in regards to Spock, but Kirk's 'angst' could come from his need to prove he deserved the promotion and overcome the doubts others may have.Abrams could have saved himself some grief by merely placing the words 3 Years Later on the screen between defeat of Nero and captaincy of the Enterprise. It would have made it much more palatable to many fans and barely noticed by non-fans watching the movie.
It's because she's best known for "Hailing frequencies open", an element which unfortunately she's best known for so why go beyond that? I so wish someone was in your shoes about that.
Would have been a nice twist seeing her Captain the Enterprise when the ship rescues Spock while he's ramming into the Narada.
It's not so much that the majority of Starfleet is non-human personal, but more so that J.J. thinks that making an actor's eyes unrealistically bigger would sell for a "WOW! That's an ALIEN!"
I also don't like that a lot of the aliens looked like crap. Literally, I look at that long face alien, I don't think "Why the long face?", I think "What's that smell?"
Hey! What do you mean "what is that supposed to mean?"
It was just something to say in fun... hence--->
[I could go on like this forever, I miss arguing with my kids now that they are grown. I could always get my niece to stutter by interrupting her that way. It was so much fun!]
If this was a TV show, yeah, I definietly could see Pike sticking around as Captain of the Enterpirse a while afterward, but there was absolutley no way they would not end the movie with Kirk in the captain's chair.
To quote my man Sulu: "Pike made him first officer."
I want more than just a reference. I want to actually see the colony!
A busty Andorian yeoman chick is a must!
Why do you hate David?
So you want Kirk to cheat on Carol Marcus with Rachel Nichols' character? Whatever, as long as Rachel plays the busty Andorian yeoman chick.
You can't say 'regardless of his actions' since that is part of the reason for his promotion. The other reason would be for political/PR reasons.
Think about it, you're the President/CIC and you'e got to handle the loss of one of your major planets in your Federation, you have to take every little thing you can in order to placate the public or make them feel better.
What better way to do that than to ensure that the person who made sure to go after the big scary thing that caused all the destruction and destroy before it could do anymore is rewarded properly as a hero. He became temporary captain during the mission? Let's make him permanent captain!
What's that? His dad was the guy who sacrificed himself to save his crew the first time the big scary thing came around? Perfect! That'll look great on the newsvids!
So what if you have to put pressure on a few admirals to ensure it happens? It's all politics.[/politician thinking]
A rank which Kirk should be forfeited of when he disobeyed direct orders from a superior officer, verbally talked down a superior officer and for assaulting two security officers with the intent to harm.
Pike made the wrong person first officer.
AFAIK, the cadets were technically already graduated. Including Kirk. The crisis at Vulcan interrupted the final ceremony. So assuming Kirk graduated with the rank of Lieutenant, like he did in TOS, then his subsequent jump to Captain didn't matter *quite* so much - he only skipped over two ranks. (In the novelization, he is referred to repeatedly as Lieutenant Kirk.)
That being said, though, while I am well aware the film would end with Kirk as Captain, why didn't they do a flash forward? A simple "Three years later..." would have done nicely.
Hmmm, was there anything to suggest that was meant to be the graduation ceremony? While I'm partial to the theory that Kirk was going to graduate as a Lieutenant, bringing up this case at the graduation ceremony is highly unusual.
Unless that is, the Admirals in charge of the Academy already had some idea of Kirk's motivations, and even if they chose to punish him for it, he'd still graduate with the rank with only a single mark against his name. After getting that business out the way, they'd carry on with the ceremony.
The only thing about doing a flashforward of 3 years, we'd be getting calls from people to fill in the gaps of what happened since the movie. It also seems to lessen the payoff of destroying the Narada by having it seem like he had to do other things to earn that Captain rank, which makes you think is saving the Federation pretty directly not enough to gain those 2 ranks? Or did he manage to pull off even more insanely brave stuff within the space of 3 years that was enough to promote him to Captain that destroying the Narada wasn't sufficient to do in itself.
Though, if we were to have a 3 year flashforward, I guess it could allow the crew to have much more familiarity at the beginning of the next movie, but I may be wrong there.
No, it's not.
Ranks are there to be used. They should never be skipped over. It's an insult to anyone who ever *had* those ranks.
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