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Spoilers ST Prodigy - StarShips & Technology Season 1 Discussion

If you pigeon hole power generation for Everybody to M/A power with dilithium regulation. You have a problem.
Within canon. Species have been FTL ing about for millions of years. Empires rise and fall. Tkon, Iconian Etc. And with that reason they used dilithium..
So after a 1000 years of the federation.. The Galaxy runs out of dilithium? Ah no..
Each ship has what.. A few kilograms of dilithium?
I knows.. Beating a dead horse that has been beaten for 2 years.
 
How do we know Disco's 32d century events is the future of TOS-VOY?

That's the thing. We don't know for sure - but Disco producers seemingly stated that it DID go into the real future of the prime timeline (which was supposed to be further corroborated by footage of Spock talking about unification of Romulans and Vulkans from TNG, along with synth body for Grey (technology which is 800 years old).

However, on Prodigy, the Protostar went through a temporal anomaly/wormhole and landed 52 years in a supposedly 'alternate future' (or at least 2 characters think that its an alternate future... I still posit its possible that future is the 'real' one that will happen either way and its all part of a time loop/predestination paradox and the Vau'N'A'Kat will go through the Civil war anyway).

However, if the Protostar did end up in an alternate future (meaning that Solum might might not have a civil war in Prime timeline - assuming Gwyn can unify the Vau'N'A'Kat)... then it stands to reason that Disco could have travelled to a similar alternate future where the Burn did happen (but the Prime timeline future didn't have the Burn).

Hopefully, in the prime timeline (the one we are seeing with ST: Prodigy), UFP managed to move away from dilithium and M/AM in the 25th/26th century, and as such, the Burn would have never come to be for UFP and most of the galaxy (or at least, it could happen, but it would only affect species that recently acquired FTL capabilities and have used Dilithium (to regulate reactions) and M/AM (to power their Warp drive).

But (as of right now), everyhing seems to point to Disco being in the 'Prime timeline' and not an 'alternate future'.
 
How do we know Disco's 32d century events is the future of TOS-VOY?

The people who currently hold the Star Trek IP say this. Of course, you’re under no obligation to believe them, since this is all fiction and you have free will to think whatever you want. And in ten years when Disney owns Star Trek, they’ll just decanonize it all anyway so they can create their own thing.
 
If you pigeon hole power generation for Everybody to M/A power with dilithium regulation. You have a problem.
Within canon. Species have been FTL ing about for millions of years. Empires rise and fall. Tkon, Iconian Etc. And with that reason they used dilithium..
So after a 1000 years of the federation.. The Galaxy runs out of dilithium? Ah no..
Each ship has what.. A few kilograms of dilithium?
I knows.. Beating a dead horse that has been beaten for 2 years.

We have no data to support the premise that the Tkon Empire or Iconians used Dilithium and M/AM for power generation though, do we?

But I agree with you that the premise of the Milky Way running out of Dilithium after about 1000 of UFP being in place is rather absurd.
But what's even more absurd is that UFP never moved away from Dilithium and M/AM in the 25th or 26th century at the latest (especially given the fact SF encountered, scanned and studied alien power generation systems that go beyond M/AM and Dilithium and even R&D'd its own during the 24th century).

And given the kind of society UFP is (and the knowledge and technology they have), reverse engineering it (or at least making their own prototypes (however crude) would have been possible within a decade or two after encountering those technologies), with more progress down the line.

It seems the writers prohibited UFP from 'having nice things'... or basically portraying it as a 'properly advanced civilization' and would need to write stories around that setting rather than just waving stuff away for the sake of drama (which is apparently easier and they didn't have to change things too much).
 
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Did DIS address whether Romulan singularity cores were affected by the Burn? Dilithium is only used to stabilise M/A reactions so they shouldn't be. But then Romulan tech might not interface well with Fed tech, and then there's all the issues with the Romulan displacement following Hobus. If it were STO, we have already seen Romulan/Fed/Klingon hybrid ships, but from DIS the Romulans have reunified with the Vulcans so either they could share tech or their own tech-base was so degraded they had to reunify to survive.
 
Given the time traveling in PRO, I am uncertain about the disco 32d century is the PU future, just one of many possibilities.
 
that the Tkon Empire or Iconians used Dilithium and M/AM for power generation though, so we?
Not me, just a hypothesis that no one else in the galaxy according to trek writers has an alternative, why would previous civilizations.

Also leaves out transwarp beaming, Iconian gateways, transwarp hubs, artificial wormholes. Etc.
 
Did DIS address whether Romulan singularity cores were affected by the Burn? Dilithium is only used to stabilise M/A reactions so they shouldn't be. But then Romulan tech might not interface well with Fed tech, and then there's all the issues with the Romulan displacement following Hobus. If it were STO, we have already seen Romulan/Fed/Klingon hybrid ships, but from DIS the Romulans have reunified with the Vulcans so either they could share tech or their own tech-base was so degraded they had to reunify to survive.
if you need two M/AM warp cores to contain miniature Protostar.. why wouldn't you need something similar for a miniature black hole? we know that the Remans were being used to mine for dilithium, so obviously the romulans were using it for something.
 
The protowarp consists of 2 warp cores and the protostar. So, definitely requires dilithium.

They never specify velocities in Disco's future, they may be going faster than the protodrive by then with their version of regular warp.
How do we know Disco's 32d century events is the future of TOS-VOY?
They literally play a clip from "Unification II"
 
The protowarp consists of 2 warp cores and the protostar. So, definitely requires dilithium.

Yes, but SF encountered more advanced power generation technologies which didn't need dilithium or M/AM and had seen them, scanned them, and even managed to repair some of them for others.
Its a bit ludicrous to assume SF could never find a replacement for dilithium and M/AM when other species clearly have.

They never specify velocities in Disco's future, they may be going faster than the protodrive by then with their version of regular warp.

That's unlikely because they said it would have taken them decades to get back to the Federation HQ under regular Warp if they were forced to make the trip like that after willingly destroying the Spore Drive to get out of the 10C field.

They literally play a clip from "Unification II"

Yes, but at the same time, many alternate futures could easily have a lot of historical events play out the same way... and others not so much.
Its still possible Disco ended up in a slightly different future of what the Prime Timeline is... much like its implied the Protostar originally did when it went through the anomaly.

Time travel is finnicky though. PRO writers already implied before that they consider certain writing to be a 'cheap copout'... so its still possible the future in which Chakotay ended up in could in fact be the 'real future' which will happen regardless, and that all of the events we witnessed to date were meant to happen and happened originally (but that otherwise no one is the wiser for all of this being a predestination paradox as of yet and are instead just treating the future in which the future Chakotay is in an 'alternate' one... but without explaining how they arrived at this conclusion).
 
I don’t think the idea that 32nd century technology is still reliant on dilithium indicates any kind of technical stagnation. It’d be like hearing about the high value of copper today and assuming nothing had changed from the Bronze Age.
 
if you need two M/AM warp cores to contain miniature Protostar.. why wouldn't you need something similar for a miniature black hole? we know that the Remans were being used to mine for dilithium, so obviously the romulans were using it for something.
I got the impression that only the bigass Warbirds used singularlies, presumably everything else used matter-antimatter reactors.
 
if you need two M/AM warp cores to contain miniature Protostar.. why wouldn't you need something similar for a miniature black hole? we know that the Remans were being used to mine for dilithium, so obviously the romulans were using it for something.

They probably sold it to other aliens.

They literally play a clip from "Unification II"

Yes, but at the same time, many alternate futures could easily have a lot of historical events play out the same way... and others not so much. Its still possible Disco ended up in a slightly different future of what the Prime Timeline is... much like its implied the Protostar originally did when it went through the anomaly.

Yep. That scene of Nimoy we saw was his Discoverse counterpart (i.e. old Ethan Peck) who essentially did the same things that Prime Spock did.
 
If you can repair the reactor, then it stands to reason you have the basic understanding of some of its principles of operation... meaning, SF would have had enough to start R&D on its own version by the time VOY got back, and have a prototype about 10 to 20 years later... and the first versions could probably be large ones used on starbases by say early 25th century... but beyond that point, reducing the size of the reactors would be possible to start using them on starships as means of replacing dilithium and antimatter (possibly late 25th century or early 26th century).

I think though that it would take some degree of time, even under optimal circumstances, to learn how to use a foreign/new technology with some degree of success, if at all. For example, I was recently rewatching "Balance of Terror" and "The Enterprise Incident," and the latter is about the Enterprise successfully capturing a cloak. Scotty manages to jury rig it to cloak the ship, but only barely, and the FASA Romulan books mention that Starfleet captured several other cloaking devices but weren't able to achieve the same results, and some such missions were hazardous because Romulan ships would rig the cloaks with sabotage devices (explosives typically) if they were removed from the original vessel. In one case, a Starfleet ship managed to cloak but then wasn't able to uncloak or be detected on sensors, so the crew was trapped and apparently lost.

To use some non-Trek examples, Battletech has a lot of technological build options for vehicles but every advanced system typically has a trade off, if mainly expense and weight. If you want to add more weapons or gear to a unit, you might choose to install an extralight (XL) fusion engine to save space, which provides the same output as a standard engine of that type. The main downside is that the weight is saved by downgrading the basic shielding on the engine (it's much thinner and weighs less), so it's both more expensive to install and much more vulnerable to critical hits or damage. It can be a useful balance, but some pilots don't like the increased risk involved if they get into a losing battle.

There's also a substance like endo steel, which was a variant for internal structures that required manufacture in an orbital, zero-G environment. Such an environment allowed for several metals to be alloyed together with essentially perfect bonds, with the resulting structure being able to support more mass for equipment than a standard IS. But the tradeoff was that it was bulkier and cost more internal space as well, and such advanced factories became prime targets when the Succession Wars broke out. Endo steel became a lost technology for a time.

Gauss rifles, which fire projectiles magnetically (similar to a rail gun), have been popular weapons on heavy units for centuries because they have excellent striking power at range and generate very little heat. But they're also very bulky, with the standard model weighing 16 tons, just shy of the lowest mech weight class (20 tons). This means they're traditionally more restricted to massive vehicles that have enough space to carry them, and that lighter units don't have the option of employing them. There are a number of Gauss variants that allow more flexibility, but they're still considered at the heavy end of the spectrum. Also their ammunition loads are relatively limited per ton, and a critical hit can damage their magnetic firing system and disable the rifle.

There are also real life examples of technological advantages that weren't adopted regularly for many years, for practical reasons. Muzzle-loading rifles were known to have range and accuracy advantages over smoothbores for a long time, but didn't become regular issue for years because the rifling had the disadvantage of fouling the barrel even quicker than a normal barrel. So a rifleman had to make his shots count because he would likely get fewer of them at a time. Likewise, the use of camouflage patterns in places like North America to help blend in (as opposed to colorful national uniforms) was used by some soldiers and frontiersman, but increased the potential risk of being fired on by friendly troops because you weren't wearing the traditional colors.

All that being said, though, I do agree with your point that the Feds could have looked into other options. :) I've seen it suggested in some sources that the Romulans are one of the few powers to use heavy plasma weaponry, due to it being more destructive but less stable than comparable systems like phasers or disruptors. And although I think the Federation ban on developing cloaks is fairly silly in its limited canon context, I could see where Starfleet wouldn't necessarily see the need to use them as regularly because of the high power cost involved.
 
Yes, but at the same time, many alternate futures could easily have a lot of historical events play out the same way... and others not so much.
Its still possible Disco ended up in a slightly different future of what the Prime Timeline is... much like its implied the Protostar originally did when it went through the anomaly
Ever notice how Worf's hair changes between "Best of Both Worlds" I and II? Thus it cannot possibly be the same universe.

That's what you sound like when you ignore obvious authorial intent.
 
Ever notice how Worf's hair changes between "Best of Both Worlds" I and II? Thus it cannot possibly be the same universe.

That's what you sound like when you ignore obvious authorial intent.

There was a tear in quantum realities resulting in the Star Trek producers unable to get the original Michael Dorn for BOBW ep2 and they got his slightly altered version that required reworking of his hair. It happens alot in Star Trek from what I hear :whistle::D
 
Is that something vaguely similar to La Sirena?
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That screams Avery Frost Orion
http://bisbos.com/sf_tta_c_orion.html
 
Ever notice how Worf's hair changes between "Best of Both Worlds" I and II? Thus it cannot possibly be the same universe.

Except when his hair changed, his ship (inside and out), uniform, phaser, communicator and every other production value from 1990 didn’t change ;)
 
Well, with Quantum Slipstream, all they had was sensor scans from the few days they had the vessel, and they re created the drive from scrap, even bettered it with the benemite crystals.
 
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