Spoilers ST Prodigy - StarShips & Technology Season 1 Discussion

[Deks]

Perhaps they give introverted and/or socially awkward officers that duty, because they ostensibly can handle being alone for longer periods of time without going nuts?

That would make sense... but what wouldn't make sense is to put just 1 person onboard.
Its usually a SF guideline to not send less than 2 people in a shuttle for example. Why would they station a single indvidual on a deep space relay station?
Adding another person (or 3) who could basically just 'avoid' each other most of the time (but would otherwise KNOW they are all there) if they are 'socially awkward' or 'introverted' would make more sense (though the term 'socially awkward' to me implies that the 'majority' somehow got things 'correct'... when in fact we know that social interaction is complex and not necessarily universal for everyone, along with the fact that you can have billions of people doing and thinking something they think is correct, but in fact its not).

People of similar backgrounds or with similar social tendencies DO get along better than those of different ones... so just putting say 4 'introverts' on the station would perhaps provide the necessary social contact but in a way that they can still give each other as much space as possible while at the same time preventing each other from going 'insane' due to complete lack of contact with anyone (or just give them a 'companion animal' or a few if that's enough).

Introverts and 'socially awkward' individuals don't completely avoid social interaction. Some of us just prefer peace and quiet most of the time and keeping to ourselves, but not necessarily being cut off entirely from 'civilization' or everyone. Just knowing someone else is there sharing the same space (but isn't bugging you all the time with conversation, etc.) is a good thing.
Company, but not in a classical sense - maybe a dog or a different type of animal in that case would work?

I remember TNG episode where that female SF officer was stationed on a UFP relay station, and she had a dog with her (quite likely to keep her company).

Heck, why not have a hologram or several in that case to keep the Denobulan company if/when needed? That would make more sense for companionship if you want to keep them mentally sane.
People (as we have seen) can form connections with holograms, so having them there if the person needs them would have been prudent.

It would appear that someone didn't get the memo when they put together that MSD. Very little of it makes sense (what's with that slanted corridor at the bottom of the primary hull?) and was probably not intended to be viewed close-up. Once again, the show-runners underestimated the fans' inclination for checking the details. Only Lower Decks seems to get it.

And for the record, I would absolutely HATE to use a keyboard that was laid out like that!

The MSD doesn't mesh well with the exterior of the hull actually because it indicates it has about 7 decks overall.

However, I counted about 10 decks across the saucer from its top section to the lower edge if the positions of the windows on the hull is any indication.
If we add another 4 or 5 decks tot he secondary hull (which is doable), you get an Intrepid class ship size right there (which would also make the Dauntless almost 4x bigger than the Protostar - that would certainly make all those trailer shots of the Dauntless and Protostar together make more sense - but then it falls flat on its face if the Protostar is scaled correctly to accommodate for the size of the bridge and its crew (which someone else did just that and they mentioned that the Protostar is actually the size of an Intrepid class ship - I could live with that... in that case, making the Dauntless similar size wouldn't be an issue - just scale the things correctly please).

But, it would also mean that SF designed its own Dauntless to be about twice as large as Arturis Dauntless (which would make sense if they wanted the ship to be able to do deep space missions for extended periods of time at the far reaches of the Galaxy - if not BEYOND the Galaxy).

 

[fireproof78]

Perhaps they give introverted and/or socially awkward officers that duty, because they ostensibly can handle being alone for longer periods of time without going nuts?

Or perhaps it is entirely volunteer.

 

[David cgc]

- We see that the Protostar is able to replicate a submarine vehicle with little fanfare (Subaway? Runnasub?), which isn't mentioned again once the mission is over. It has its own number on the side, which lends credence to my idea that it represents the DESIGN number carried in the ship's memory, instead of the number of shuttles / aux craft the ship has overall. More like Thunderbirds, in other words.

I haven't doubled back for a closer look, but at first glance, I thought it resembled the Jellyfish, which could have some interesting implications. Maybe it's a generic extreme-environment design that was adapted for Spock?

 

[Deks]

I haven't doubled back for a closer look, but at first glance, I thought it resembled the Jellyfish, which could have some interesting implications. Maybe it's a generic extreme-environment design that was adapted for Spock?

Yeah, the sub reminded me heavily of the Jelliyfish ship we saw in ST 2009 that Spock used.
I don't see why a similar design phyolosophy couldn't be implemented between the two. Starships are capable of being submerged underwater - just there might be a limit for them in going too deep.

VOY was said that it could actually go to extreme depths where massive amounts of pressure are located, however, it would have to be modified to do that (and the mods would take a couple of weeks).

So... ships can be submerged, but in order to reach and maintain a position where heavy pressure is, it would need to be further modified (the Delta Flyer had little issue with that and only needed thruster modifications because it was already designed to withstand gas giant atmospheres with large pressures - and I assume that a simple shuttle could be modified with far less time than VOY because its much smaller in comparison).

Anyway... as far as shuttles, runabouts and auxiliary craft numbers go... we've already seen that if they are generally assigned to a ship, they carry the same insignia/numbers as the mothership in question.
It may be different in cases if they are assigned to stations. DS9 had several runabouts assigned to it at first, but they all had their own insignias and not DS9 ones.

This was probably because it was a Bajoran station and Bajorans weren't part of UFP at the time. The UFP was there in an administrative capacity. Sure, at some point the station stopped being an outpost and was turned into a full starbase (aka, probably when SF installed all its weapons and tech onto it)... at which point I suppose the 'ownership' of the station was dual (Federation and Bajoran due to their close ties)... but the auxiliary craft assigned to it probably wouldn't bear DS9 insignia yet until Bajor became UFP member world.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

Observations for 1x12:

- Despite the cube being shut down somehow, the gang decides to enter and land instead of beaming aboard. Worried that a transport signal would be viewed as more of a threat than an antimatter-powered starship with a transwarp-speed FTL drive parking inside? If they were after information, then why not dial up a shuttle and take that?

- The Borg don't have elevators, but we know they have train technology from the sights of Unimatrix One et. al.

- Perhaps owing to this weird relationship with artificial gravity, they see the need to have suspension bridges that can be destroyed with relative ease to save our heroes.

- So are we saying that all the future tech that future Janeway hasn't made it into the fleet? I mean if there were an Omega Directive sorta thing keeping that knowledge from the general public except maybe when a starship DID encounter the Borg, you'd think that the Protostar could've had the capacity to whip up a trans-whatever torpedo for use in situations like this?

- The Dauntless was project-managed by a certain B'elanna Torres, according to Admiral J's logs on the subject. At this point, she'd be raising a young Miral (if Tom is still galavanting around the quadrant on USO tours or whatever) so @Mike McDevitt and I wonder if she'd be along for the ride or not, given this is her (starship) baby and I'm guessing the Dauntless class is hardly meant for large scale production..?

Mark

 

[Mike McDevitt]

There's a reference in 'Let Sleeping Borg Lie' that I missed which came up on twitter. "Neurolytic pathogen" implies the mickey slipped to the Borg by the time-travelling Admiral Janeway in 'Endgame' is still having an effect years later (although apparently not constantly across the entire collective if the Borg are still a going concern a few years ago to the Oakland's Captain Ramsey & Durga in 'Much Ado About Boimler'). But there could potentially be a collective-wide sluggishness to this day.

 

[Mark_Nguyen]

One wonders if the Romulan stuff going into Picard S1 is related as well. One good novel oughtta do it...

Mark

 

[Deks]

There's a reference in 'Let Sleeping Borg Lie' that I missed which came up on twitter. "Neurolytic pathogen" implies the mickey slipped to the Borg by the time-travelling Admiral Janeway in 'Endgame' is still having an effect years later (although apparently not constantly across the entire collective if the Borg are still a going concern a few years ago to the Oakland's Captain Ramsey & Durga in 'Much Ado About Boimler'). But there could potentially be a collective-wide sluggishness to this day.

Fun fact: the neurolithic pathogen got into SF possession when VOY rescued Icheb (his body made the thing).
It was a good plan in endgame to use the pathogen, only this time to infect the Queen at the Unimatrix ... that's bound to have galaxy wide reprecussions as opposed to be contained to a single vessel since the Queen 'regulates' the Collective as a whole.

As such, the pathogen's effects are likely going to vary from one Borg ship to the other. Some Borg ships like in Prodigy could be in sleeping mode, while others could operate still but at a diminished capacity (giving local species greater ability to resist).

Observations for 1x12:

- Despite the cube being shut down somehow, the gang decides to enter and land instead of beaming aboard. Worried that a transport signal would be viewed as more of a threat than an antimatter-powered starship with a transwarp-speed FTL drive parking inside? If they were after information, then why not dial up a shuttle and take that?

Beats me. Maybe this was part of holo Janeway's strategy this time around. The Borg were sleeping so it was unlikely they would have noticed the Protostar inside. Remember that 'relevant technology' is deemed relevant by the Borg if the power signature of the vessel is high enough to peak their interest (the Proto core and drive could have been either dormant, or the Protostar power signature as a whole could have been dampened by holo-Janeway so as to not arouse Borg's interest).

- The Borg don't have elevators, but we know they have train technology from the sights of Unimatrix One et. al.

- Perhaps owing to this weird relationship with artificial gravity, they see the need to have suspension bridges that can be destroyed with relative ease to save our heroes.

I'm kinda torn on this one. Given the amount of drones on a Borg ship at any given time and the fact its a collective, the Borg could assign any number of drones in a given section of a vessel to work on specific issues. There can be what 50 000 to 100 000 drones on a cube.
That can easily negate the need for elevators since most of the areas of the cube would have more than enough drones in them to do the work that needs to be done.

In fact, from VOY, it was said when the Hansens were observing the drones on the cube they were tracking that they were under the impression that drones from different sub-units didn't interact with one another.
Obviously, in the case the did, it indicated the Borg may have suspected the drone to be studied by the Hansens and tried to look for more evidence of how they were doing that (hence the reason for unusual interaction).

- So are we saying that all the future tech that future Janeway hasn't made it into the fleet? I mean if there were an Omega Directive sorta thing keeping that knowledge from the general public except maybe when a starship DID encounter the Borg, you'd think that the Protostar could've had the capacity to whip up a trans-whatever torpedo for use in situations like this?

Using future tehnology in such a capacity could violate the Temporal Prime Directive. VOY and JAneway may have been given a free pass on using the technology to pass by the Borg with safety while dealing a crippling blow to them in the process), but on a large scale, its possible SF would deem the use of such tech not a good idea and might alter the balance of power.

SF was always concerned about the balance of power in the Galaxy, so its possible that it was decided as a whole the future technology won't be used unless a greater Borg threat emerged and until sufficient time has passed for the technology to emerge (though in the future admiral janeway timeline, this likely occurred earlier than 23 years from 2378... while VOY was still in the DQ - otherwise, per future Janeway's admission, the ship wouldn't have made it back).

So, in that timeline, it was said VOY spent 23 years in the DQ. Janeway and the crew probably developed the armor and torpedoes bw

- The Dauntless was project-managed by a certain B'elanna Torres, according to Admiral J's logs on the subject. At this point, she'd be raising a young Miral (if Tom is still galavanting around the quadrant on USO tours or whatever) so @Mike McDevitt and I wonder if she'd be along for the ride or not, given this is her (starship) baby and I'm guessing the Dauntless class is hardly meant for large scale production..?

Torres may have been the project manager for designing the SF built Dauntless, but why wouldn't this design be meant for large scale production?
Torres contribution would have been relevant in producing the first SF made Dauntless class ship, but not subsequent ones since SF would have to have copies of all the design specs, along with knowledge and experience from Torres' work on the first one (she would have kept detailed sensor records, data logs, etc. that SF wuld use to mass produce the thing - or at least create sufficiently large amount of Dauntless class ships to send out into deeper areas of the Galaxy for exploratory reasons).

This is kinda my beef with the way some people think. Something similar happened in Disco S4 with second generation of the Spore Drive. Apparently, we're supposed to think that Tarka never kept any logs or sensor records while making the thing, so it was turned into a fuss when the prototype was taken and said that SF couldn't reproduce it without the prototype?
Who wrote that nonsense?
A project of that importance would be something that warranted close supervision, and SF would want to have sensor records of EVERYTHING pertaining to that development, and would make backups upon backups stored in different locations for security purposes which would be updated practically every second while Tarka (and presumably his team) worked on the thing.

This is something that bugged the heck out of me. We're supposed to think that villains get this kind level of adequacy written to them, but SF is portrayed as a band of morons who don't do such a thing (which is also somehow used as a plot point to come back and bite them in the rear end).
Its beyond stupid to contemplate if you want my opinion.

In the 24th century, Torres wasn't Tarka (obviously) and she was SF through and through by that point, so Torres wouldn't be needed to mass produce the Dauntless class ships because her work and sensor records on the first one would have been more than enough for SF to mass produce them.

It would be the same thing with Leah Brahms who initially worked on the galaxy class. Her involvement was needed for the first Galaxy class, but not for mass producing the thing.
Obviously, SF may want to bring in same people who worked originally on a given class of ships if they are stuck in upgrading them, but 24th century is also a different era... seems SF here would be a smidget more 'competent'.

 

[fireproof78]

This is kinda my beef with the way some people think. Something similar happened in Disco S4 with second generation of the Spore Drive. Apparently, we're supposed to think that Tarka never kept any logs or sensor records while making the thing, so it was turned into a fuss when the prototype was taken and said that SF couldn't reproduce it without the prototype?
Who wrote that nonsense?

This is a trend I see in many projects, not just Star Trek. Star Wars has the whole thing with the Death Star plans being the only copy, and once Vader recovers them the threat will be eliminated. It doubles down on this in Attack of the Clones with Dooku walking around with a copy of the Death Star as if that was the only one.

Digital file copying unfortunately doesn't seem to get figured in to a lot of different plots I read.

 

[Deks]

This is a trend I see in many projects, not just Star Trek. Star Wars has the whole thing with the Death Star plans being the only copy, and once Vader recovers them the threat will be eliminated. It doubles down on this in Attack of the Clones with Dooku walking around with a copy of the Death Star as if that was the only one.

Digital file copying unfortunately doesn't seem to get figured in to a lot of different plots I read.

Which is utterly nonsensical because SF is all about exploration, discovery and scanning everything to death and having a record of it.
We've seen that stuff on-screen done by SF a LOT... including didtal file copying... but then the live action series intentionally dumbs stuff down and says: 'oh its a prototype... if it gets lost, we can't make another one'.

All of the stuff VOY encountered in the DQ would be recorded in its databanks and SF can work from that alone.
Sure, not everyone is Torres, but they don't have to be... even if it takes a year or two longer for others to get to where she would have (for example).

Similar thing with Tarka... the guy worked for the Emerald Chain before... so it stands to reason his work would have been kept under close supervision with sensors, etc.
SF would have been meticulous about that.

Even the Protostar class starship and the Protodrive could be recreated if the Protostar itself got destroyed.. SF built it for crying out loud. They MUST have detailed records of it.

But as it stands, it seems like only aliens and bad guys do digital file copying and setting up sensible security precautions.

When it comes to the Death Star... here's the thing... the plans existed of course. And there's no reason to think other copies (in secure locations across the Empire) didn't exist (though, I don't recall anything being mentioned on this matter).

Maybe it would have been more realistic if the plans which Vader were after were encrypted with sophisticated techniques to prevent most methods of duplication so they had to be physically moved from one location to another.
Was anything mentioned that other copies of the DS plans existed?

I can understand if you need special equipment to transmit or copy the plans... that much would make sense, so you wouldn't be able to just do all of that on the fly given the sensitivity of the data.

But I sincerely doubt that SF would be so careless to not monitor development of gen 2 of the Spore Drive AND not have any sensor records of the process that was implemented to make it at every step of the way. So, even if the progress was recorded buy Tarka stole the prototype at the end and didn't record that last step... the previous steps leading to that one would have been MORE than enough for SF to extrapolate how to make another one.

Furthermore, they still have detailed scans and knowledge of gen 1 drive on Disco... so, what would be the real loss here anyway besides some time?
Trek writers also ignore one very useful thing: 'Computer, analyse all the data pertaining to USS Discovery's Spore Drive and initiate automated R&D of next generation of the drive which would represent a modern and more efficient take on the technology and could be incorporated into most or all SF ships with relative ease'.

And presto. Trek computers are pretty good like that ever since 24th century (so SF could easily do this with ANYTHING literally)... what's worse is that SF had a dozen ships with extremely powerful computer systems stationed at the cloaked HQ in the 32nd century 100 years after the Burn... these guys didn't even think apparently to do a similar request of the computer and leverage computing power of all stationed ships at HQ to do continuous R&D for new technologies it seems using automated algorithms like we're starting to do now.

Someone's been sleeping behind the wheel it seems.

 

[fireproof78]

Was anything mentioned that other copies of the DS plans existed?

Not really, no. It is treated as "the copy" and that if it gets discovered, or stolen then they're screwed.

'oh its a prototype... if it gets lost, we can't make another one'.

Like I said, this is a pretty standard trope, and I have not seen it really be undone, not in genre fiction I follow, which I'll admit is limited.

So, while I 100% agree with you that the capability is there, and that technologically there is the ability to utilize algorithms, data analysis, reverse engineering, etc. and I would expect that from the real world. But, with Starfleet? Sorry, I don't.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

SF was always concerned about the balance of power in the Galaxy, so its possible that it was decided as a whole the future technology won't be used unless a greater Borg threat emerged and until sufficient time has passed for the technology to emerge (though in the future admiral janeway timeline, this likely occurred earlier than 23 years from 2378... while VOY was still in the DQ - otherwise, per future Janeway's admission, the ship wouldn't have made it back).

So, in that timeline, it was said VOY spent 23 years in the DQ. Janeway and the crew probably developed the armor and torpedoes bw

Basically, they want to save the tech as a hidden "Trump Card" or "Ace in their Pocket".
Something to pull out in times of crisis.

This is a trend I see in many projects, not just Star Trek. Star Wars has the whole thing with the Death Star plans being the only copy, and once Vader recovers them the threat will be eliminated. It doubles down on this in Attack of the Clones with Dooku walking around with a copy of the Death Star as if that was the only one.

Digital file copying unfortunately doesn't seem to get figured in to a lot of different plots I read.

Most of those writers don't have high computer literacy.

Someone's been sleeping behind the wheel it seems.

They've been sleeping for quite a while, it's a problem that has spanned all of Trek.

 

[Deks]

Basically, they want to save the tech as a hidden "Trump Card" or "Ace in their Pocket".
Something to pull out in times of crisis.

Possible, but it also possible these technologies won't be seen again.
Still, Prodigy writers have been surprisingly consistent and didn't shy from pushing tech forward for UFP... maybe the armor and transphasic torpeodes are part of the Dauntless arsenal (doubtful they would be part of the Protostar... but its possible - the kids simply might not know about it, and given holo-Janeway's memory corruption because of Drednok, she might not know about those technologies anymore and might rediscover them - that is IF the protostar has them, or could simply make them using the replicator and transporters).

Most of those writers don't have high computer literacy.

Which is very odd considering they are writing stories set in a technologically advanced setting where things like that would be standard practice.

They've been sleeping for quite a while, it's a problem that has spanned all of Trek.

Don't we (both) know it.
But like I said, Prodigy has been better than other live action Trek when it comes to pushing the tech forward and consistency... so, here's hoping that they will actively state that even if the Protostar and the Dauntless were to be lost, SF could recreate both designs easily enough... but that obviously, losing either ship is less than an acceptable outcome (it never is really) and every effort should be made at preserving them.

 

[fireproof78]

Most of those writers don't have high computer literacy.

Eh...probably not in any future technology sense. They probably know enough to do their job well enough to get by.

They've been sleeping for quite a while, it's a problem that has spanned all of Trek.

This is quite true. Which is why I don't hold it against current Trek. Otherwise, might as well toss all of Trek out and start over.

Still, Prodigy writers have been surprisingly consistent and didn't shy from pushing tech forward for UFP...

I do wonder if Prodigy writers benefit from two things-one, a consistent team without any BTS troubles and two, they are making a kid's show, which usually has less oversight by the powers that be because less is expected. So, they have more freedom to do that exploring and creative piece, without hitting all the demands of the higher ups, i.e. marketing, appearances, etc. Prodigy, for all it's oddness, might be in the best position to truly do something different with Trek.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Which is very odd considering they are writing stories set in a technologically advanced setting where things like that would be standard practice.

They're "Writers" first, not technologists.
Me and you are Technologists first, not writers.

But like I said, Prodigy has been better than other live action Trek when it comes to pushing the tech forward and consistency... so, here's hoping that they will actively state that even if the Protostar and the Dauntless were to be lost, SF could recreate both designs easily enough... but that obviously, losing either ship is less than an acceptable outcome (it never is really) and every effort should be made at preserving them.

If it was me running the progams, each program would test only one advanced technology before combining all tech into a complete package.

The USS ProtoStar would be about the ProtoStar Reactor and it's advanced Warp Core/Drive system.

The Armor and Transphasic Torpedoes could probably be on other test vessels else where.

You wouldn't test everything at one time, that makes it a mess to debug and figure out issues.

Eh...probably not in any future technology sense. They probably know enough to do their job well enough to get by.

That wouldn't surprise me in the least.

This is quite true. Which is why I don't hold it against current Trek. Otherwise, might as well toss all of Trek out and start over.

The point is, many of us don't want to start over (Reboot or otherwise). We'd rather just fix what exists.

 

[fireproof78]

The point is, many of us don't want to start over (Reboot or otherwise). We'd rather just fix what exists.

I hear that point agree. But, again, how do you go back and undo all of what has been done? What technology do you keep and discard? How do you determine what is appropriate progress? Especially in the realm of Starfleet when it was done based upon 60s, 70s, and 80s technological understanding, and those limits from those writers carry over. That's why I like Prodigy way more than I thought I would because it's experimenting in a smaller way. By introducing these technologies to a child's audience it lets them reflect on what those limits are.

But, the limits still exist, by the nature of the franchise. The problems still exist. You can't debug an entire franchise, at least to me (maybe my inner Tolkien is coming out). Because when you get to these problems and say "This is not acceptable now, but in the past it was totally fine. But, it's all Star Trek so you know, figure it out." is a hard place for me to parse.

Prodigy might have an interesting place in Trek history. I do hope they do go in to a Starfleet Academy series and keep building upon this unique idea.

There's a reference in 'Let Sleeping Borg Lie' that I missed which came up on twitter. "Neurolytic pathogen" implies the mickey slipped to the Borg by the time-travelling Admiral Janeway in 'Endgame' is still having an effect years later (although apparently not constantly across the entire collective if the Borg are still a going concern a few years ago to the Oakland's Captain Ramsey & Durga in 'Much Ado About Boimler'). But there could potentially be a collective-wide sluggishness to this day.

I read this and it led me to a thought. What if the Borg are trying to assimilate the pathogen and in so doing it causes different reactions in individual cubes, since they can't use the Collective.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I hear that point agree. But, again, how do you go back and undo all of what has been done? What technology do you keep and discard? How do you determine what is appropriate progress? Especially in the realm of Starfleet when it was done based upon 60s, 70s, and 80s technological understanding, and those limits from those writers carry over. That's why I like Prodigy way more than I thought I would because it's experimenting in a smaller way. By introducing these technologies to a child's audience it lets them reflect on what those limits are.

But, the limits still exist, by the nature of the franchise. The problems still exist. You can't debug an entire franchise, at least to me (maybe my inner Tolkien is coming out). Because when you get to these problems and say "This is not acceptable now, but in the past it was totally fine. But, it's all Star Trek so you know, figure it out." is a hard place for me to parse.

Prodigy might have an interesting place in Trek history. I do hope they do go in to a Starfleet Academy series and keep building upon this unique idea.

Don't worry, me and Dek's have our own specific ideas of what technology will be like moving forward in the ST Timeline.

 

[fireproof78]

Don't worry, me and Dek's have our own specific ideas of what technology will be like moving forward in the ST Timeline.

Who's worried? I'd hire you guys as writers for my new series.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Who's worried? I'd hire you guys as writers for my new series.

Thanks, but we wouldn't be writers, we'd be Technical Technoloy Continuity & Progresison advisors.
Writers would be somebody else, but we would be embedded in every department.
From Art, Prosthetics, Writing, etc.

 

[fireproof78]

Thanks, but we wouldn't be writers, we'd be Technical Technoloy Continuity & Progresison advisors.
Writers would be somebody else, but we would be embedded in every department.
From Art, Prosthetics, Writing, etc.

Technical writers, is my preference. Knowing the ins and outs of every aspect to inform the rest of the writing staff.

Yes, writers for me on my dream staff.