ST: Nemesis And Data's Demise

[Timo]

After all, in First Contact, he was being fired at with a machine gun and he turns the woman who was trying to kill him with, "Greetings."

Might be Lily was simply a lousy shot. The dozen or so bullets that hit Data and penetrated his clothing might also have penetrated his skin, but failed to do any internal damage; the rest just missed, which is what you usually get if you fire a light machine gun from the hip.

Having the one and only original Data appear alive and well again would actually be less implausible than having Lore reappear after "Datalore". Data was blown to space (and not necessarily to bits) inside a debris field inside a spatial anomaly; his body might have disappeared from sensors easily enough. Lore was transported to normal boring vacuum; sensors ought to have picked him up, and our heroes should then have rescued/apprehended him.

Of course, "Datalore" probably intended for Lore to be beamed out in a lethal manner. And the episode would be more consistent that way, too. Supposedly, the Crystalline Entity would attack the ship the very moment the shields were dropped and something was beamed out. Yet when Lore is beamed out, the CE just withdraws.

Was Lore delusional in thinking that the CE understood him and his plan? Never mind, the very act of dropping the shields should have caused the CE to attack, plan or no plan. So odds are that the shields were not dropped, and Lore was beamed against the shields and ceased to exist at that moment. Except that "Brothers" proves it didn't happen...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Smellincoffee]

How expensive would it be for a CGI Data to walk around in another movie? If he had a slightly artificial appearance, that would be in character -- and Brent Spiner could still participate in the lines and scenes, since (to my knowledge) CGI characters have a real-life stand-in when the scenes are being filmed with actors.

 

[PianoWizzy]

How expensive would it be for a CGI Data to walk around in another movie? If he had a slightly artificial appearance, that would be in character -- and Brent Spiner could still participate in the lines and scenes, since (to my knowledge) CGI characters have a real-life stand-in when the scenes are being filmed with actors.

That... is a brilliant idea. Why wasn't this though of earlier??

 

[Gepard]

That... is a brilliant idea. Why wasn't this though of earlier??

Because that kind of CG technology is expensive and cutting edge – a term that can't be applied to any Trek film, bar maybe TMP and Trek XI – and it arrived about a decade too late for the TNG films.

If Paramount's going to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at Trek features, as they did with JJ's film and as they would have to to pull off something like this, I'd much rather have seen it used to show us more expansive locales, better ships, and really alien aliens, rather than catering to fans' inability to let go.

 

[Satyrquaze]

Face it folks, the original Data is atoms. Gone. Done. Over. Now, that guy in the Countdown comics is a whole other matter, but whatever he is, B4, new construction, etc, he's NOT the original Data.

Not that it matters since just off the top of my head: Spock, Riker, O'Brien, and Harry Kim were all killed (or nearly killed) and replaced with exact dupilcates at one time or another.

Hell it could be argued that everytime anyone stepped in the transporter they were disintegrated atom-by-atom and an exact duplicate was created at the landing point.

 

[FlapJoy]

That... is a brilliant idea. Why wasn't this though of earlier??

Because that kind of CG technology is expensive and cutting edge – a term that can't be applied to any Trek film, bar maybe TMP and Trek XI – and it arrived about a decade too late for the TNG films.

If Paramount's going to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at Trek features, as they did with JJ's film and as they would have to to pull off something like this, I'd much rather have seen it used to show us more expansive locales, better ships, and really alien aliens, rather than catering to fans' inability to let go.

They really woudn't need to replace Spiner with a full CGI character, they could just use CG to smooth out Spiner's age lines and slim down his gut, and so he could still play Data for quite a few years more. I doubt it would be as expensive or as complicated as a fully CGI Data... see Jeff Bridges as his own "youngified" MCP counterpart in TRON Legacy.

 

[Saxman1]

That... is a brilliant idea. Why wasn't this though of earlier??

Because that kind of CG technology is expensive and cutting edge – a term that can't be applied to any Trek film, bar maybe TMP and Trek XI – and it arrived about a decade too late for the TNG films.

If Paramount's going to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at Trek features, as they did with JJ's film and as they would have to to pull off something like this, I'd much rather have seen it used to show us more expansive locales, better ships, and really alien aliens, rather than catering to fans' inability to let go.

They really woudn't need to replace Spiner with a full CGI character, they could just use CG to smooth out Spiner's age lines and slim down his gut, and so he could still play Data for quite a few years more. I doubt it would be as expensive or as complicated as a fully CGI Data... see Jeff Bridges as his own "youngified" MCP counterpart in TRON Legacy.

Spiner gives the impression in the Collector's Edition of the film that he's too old to continue to play an android. In fact, he makes it sound as if he's tired of Data. Well, old and fat androids are typically not the norm in Sci Fi, so he was wise to bow out. As it turned out, after the film's poor showing, Parmount was done with TNG. To be honest, Data didn't look all that great in Insurrection, either.

Somewhere along the line, Sirtis had a bad facelift, making her look vaguely Oriental and Frakes is just HUGE. It was time to end TNG and I say this as a big fan of the series (the movies, not so much).

 

[FlapJoy]

Because that kind of CG technology is expensive and cutting edge – a term that can't be applied to any Trek film, bar maybe TMP and Trek XI – and it arrived about a decade too late for the TNG films.

If Paramount's going to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at Trek features, as they did with JJ's film and as they would have to to pull off something like this, I'd much rather have seen it used to show us more expansive locales, better ships, and really alien aliens, rather than catering to fans' inability to let go.

They really woudn't need to replace Spiner with a full CGI character, they could just use CG to smooth out Spiner's age lines and slim down his gut, and so he could still play Data for quite a few years more. I doubt it would be as expensive or as complicated as a fully CGI Data... see Jeff Bridges as his own "youngified" MCP counterpart in TRON Legacy.

Spiner gives the impression in the Collector's Edition of the film that he's too old to continue to play an android. In fact, he makes it sound as if he's tired of Data. Well, old and fat androids are typically not the norm in Sci Fi, so he was wise to bow out. As it turned out, after the film's poor showing, Parmount was done with TNG. To be honest, Data didn't look all that great in Insurrection, either.

Somewhere along the line, Sirtis had a bad facelift, making her look vaguely Oriental and Frakes is just HUGE. It was time to end TNG and I say this as a big fan of the series (the movies, not so much).

That's a great point, it's hard to believe that TNG is more than 20 years old now. The actors are at the age of the TOS cast was during their movie run and it was showing. I guess TNG is quite done as it is. I still would love to see a TNG era show with a whole new cast that could have cameos by some of the original TNGer's.

 

[Captain Rob]

Because that kind of CG technology is expensive and cutting edge – a term that can't be applied to any Trek film, bar maybe TMP and Trek XI – and it arrived about a decade too late for the TNG films.

If Paramount's going to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at Trek features, as they did with JJ's film and as they would have to to pull off something like this, I'd much rather have seen it used to show us more expansive locales, better ships, and really alien aliens, rather than catering to fans' inability to let go.

They really woudn't need to replace Spiner with a full CGI character, they could just use CG to smooth out Spiner's age lines and slim down his gut, and so he could still play Data for quite a few years more. I doubt it would be as expensive or as complicated as a fully CGI Data... see Jeff Bridges as his own "youngified" MCP counterpart in TRON Legacy.

Spiner gives the impression in the Collector's Edition of the film that he's too old to continue to play an android. In fact, he makes it sound as if he's tired of Data. Well, old and fat androids are typically not the norm in Sci Fi, so he was wise to bow out. As it turned out, after the film's poor showing, Parmount was done with TNG. To be honest, Data didn't look all that great in Insurrection, either.

Somewhere along the line, Sirtis had a bad facelift, making her look vaguely Oriental and Frakes is just HUGE. It was time to end TNG and I say this as a big fan of the series (the movies, not so much).

Reminds me in NEM when Picard says early on that he'll be in the gym, Riker should have replied: "The Enterprise has a gym?"

 

[Admiral_Young]

Psychically the original Data is gone. However the download memories of Data are still dormant inside of B4 and the aforementioned Countdown comic did indeed imply that the Daystrom Institute was able to make a breakthrough and revive those memories. I believe Star Trek Online also did the same thing with Data. There are ways of bringing back Data if the people at Pocket Books were interested at all in doing so but on screen Data is dead and Brent Spiner will most likely not return. The rumor was that he wanted to kill Data as early as "Insurrection". A way to have Spiner return other than CGI is of course an TNG animated series which I think would be an excellent way to return to the TNG era.

 

[Timo]

It oughtn't be difficult to rebuild Data if they just happened to find his head after that explosion, either. This has been successfully done before, after all...

The odds are low that the TNG cast would return in any live-action form. So Spiner's reluctance to perpetuate the character shouldn't be an obstacle as such for having Data re-emerge in comics, books, animated shows and so forth.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JarodRussell]

Why Data needed to die if they already knew it was the last movie is beyond me.

 

[Timo]

Hero deaths always give added value to stories, don't they? Especially when the story has jumped media, losing the repetitive, reset-button TV format and reaching a level where things can actually happen. We also got a main character marriage there, at long last.

They could have done even more on the closure thing, of course: say, saying that the heroes had united for this particular trip one last time, almost by accident (the Troi wedding), and would otherwise be scattered to the four winds (thus giving another excuse for having Worf around - he's "not really there"). Or saying that the E-E would not be repaired for some time, or even destroying that ship for good. But too much closure for "out-universe" reasons ("This will be the last one") is distracting...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Admiral_Young]

Data died so Bent Spiner would not be tempted to return if they ever did a future movie but like I said they even left themselves a back door plot to bring him back if they ever wanted to in the form of B4.

 

[Saxman1]

The TNG era of Trek is finished. The future is the reboot Kirk era.

 

[Galileo7]

NEM ... attempted to remake TWOK with TNG characters

...sadly, without Nicholas Meyer at the helm

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ That begs a question...what would a Nick Meyer TNG helmed movie be like? I don't think he would have ever had done a TNG film if asked but still...it is an interesting thought.

 

[JarodRussell]

^ That begs a question...what would a Nick Meyer TNG helmed movie be like? I don't think he would have ever had done a TNG film if asked but still...it is an interesting thought.

He was asked to direct Nemesis. But he is the kind of director of wants to rewrite the script he's filming.

 

[Galileo7]

^ That begs a question...what would a Nick Meyer TNG helmed movie be like? I don't think he would have ever had done a TNG film if asked but still...it is an interesting thought.

He was asked to direct Nemesis. But he is the kind of director of wants to rewrite the script he's filming.

It would not have hurt NEM, Paramount should have let Nick Meyer rewrite and direct. Nick Meyer's Star Trek NEMESIS would have been a far, far better film than the one we got from director Stuart Baird.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I had no idea that Meyer was asked...and I would have had no problem letting re-writing the script although considering that Stewart and Spiner worked on the story maybe that wouldn't have happened lol.