That's insulting to the artists.
They were rushed, the FX was only finished a week before the episode aired.
Spoilers ST Discovery - Starships and Technology Season Three SPOILER Discussion
- Thread starter Mark_Nguyen
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They were rushed, the FX was only finished a week before the episode aired.
Not like Cochrane needed a bucket full of antimatter to make the pheonix run, probably just a few grams. In my mind I always thought each "Thump" of the Enterprise D reactor is only 1 molecule or atom of matter/antimatter colliding. and it going thump, thump thump at warp is it throwing more fuel in faster.
To run out of Deuterium is stupid.. you can find interstellar hydrogen everywhere, especially with the ramscoops, and you'd just need to do a gas giant dive every once in awhile to re supply.. Antimatter is different as it needs to be processed, maybe be able to "Scoop" up some ocasionall atoms in space, but its nominally a manufactured supply like Gasoline. So they would need to manufacture it or barter at stations and systems for it. Same for Dilithium, its a consumable.
Now in Disco, what about the shape of they crystals? In Elan of Troyus the shape of the crystals were the problem in getting the system to settle down. Do they get a random crystal, then throw it in a milling machine like a diamond to get a correctly shaped crystal? ( I know.. mundane crap,, but hey!)
Maybe the "wands" were telling the programable matter to permenantly settle in the new configuration while the bed, etc. were just temporary constructs?
To run out of Deuterium is stupid.. you can find interstellar hydrogen everywhere, especially with the ramscoops, and you'd just need to do a gas giant dive every once in awhile to re supply.. Antimatter is different as it needs to be processed, maybe be able to "Scoop" up some ocasionall atoms in space, but its nominally a manufactured supply like Gasoline. So they would need to manufacture it or barter at stations and systems for it. Same for Dilithium, its a consumable.
Now in Disco, what about the shape of they crystals? In Elan of Troyus the shape of the crystals were the problem in getting the system to settle down. Do they get a random crystal, then throw it in a milling machine like a diamond to get a correctly shaped crystal? ( I know.. mundane crap,, but hey!)
Maybe the "wands" were telling the programable matter to permenantly settle in the new configuration while the bed, etc. were just temporary constructs?
I assume raw Dilitium has to be refined to remove impurities and errors in lattice structure. Only in an emergency would you use raw crystals.
I'm surprised there isn't "Synthetic Dilithium Crystals" mass produced to the same design & standards.
To be fair, it's also stupid to run out of gas, when there's some in every cubic kilometer beneath our cars. Or gold, when there's some in seawater.
Interstellar deuterium might be way too thin to be of any worth. And the Janeways of Starfleet would always try and find suitably enriched sources for it, which means that every attempt at finding a friendly gas station would leave them more starved of the thing, until it would become impossible to hunt for non-enriched sources. A drilling rig can easily run out of fuel oil before reaching a drill site...
As for synthetic dilithium, I like to interpret the TOS paddles as matrices for microcrystals - in much greater need for constant realigning or "energizing" than a good-sized lump, but OTOH far more easily acquired from synthesis or from carefully sweeping the floors of a crystal cutting workshop. A lump is a great discovery, and using its natural facets gives you endurance and robustness. But when a facet wears out, realigning for a new one requires the expertise of one Leland T. Lynch, and when all the facets are worn out, the rest of the crystal is a paperweight, or then will be cut to smaller pieces (and microcrystal dust) at a suitable facility for lesser-utility reuse.
Or then recrystallized, but apparently this process won't evolve beyond rudimentary flat-tire-repair-kit levels even in the 32nd century... Perhaps Her Highness Me Hani Ika Hali Ka Po's process would have been better? At least the DSC heroes thought it would be the eternally burning lightbulb or the truly free lunch. But they knew squat about the actual process, and Po possibly came up with nothing better than the thing that later amazed Scotty and let Book down after the fender-bender.
Timo Saloniemi
Interstellar deuterium might be way too thin to be of any worth. And the Janeways of Starfleet would always try and find suitably enriched sources for it, which means that every attempt at finding a friendly gas station would leave them more starved of the thing, until it would become impossible to hunt for non-enriched sources. A drilling rig can easily run out of fuel oil before reaching a drill site...
As for synthetic dilithium, I like to interpret the TOS paddles as matrices for microcrystals - in much greater need for constant realigning or "energizing" than a good-sized lump, but OTOH far more easily acquired from synthesis or from carefully sweeping the floors of a crystal cutting workshop. A lump is a great discovery, and using its natural facets gives you endurance and robustness. But when a facet wears out, realigning for a new one requires the expertise of one Leland T. Lynch, and when all the facets are worn out, the rest of the crystal is a paperweight, or then will be cut to smaller pieces (and microcrystal dust) at a suitable facility for lesser-utility reuse.
Or then recrystallized, but apparently this process won't evolve beyond rudimentary flat-tire-repair-kit levels even in the 32nd century... Perhaps Her Highness Me Hani Ika Hali Ka Po's process would have been better? At least the DSC heroes thought it would be the eternally burning lightbulb or the truly free lunch. But they knew squat about the actual process, and Po possibly came up with nothing better than the thing that later amazed Scotty and let Book down after the fender-bender.
Timo Saloniemi
Wow, 1x 32nd Century Quantum Torpedo knocked the shields of Discovery off line.
That's quite the power gap.
Earth "FINALLY" has Planetary Shields of some form.
That's quite the power gap.
Earth "FINALLY" has Planetary Shields of some form.
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I would think it more energy efficient to get deuterium off of giant planets atmosphere, then in interstellar space. Of course, nebulae in Trek are unrealistically dense,so they might do.
It was two torpedoes.
And quite frankly, just 1 should have probably destroyed Discovery easily - but its possible that when that transporter sabotage device was put in place to prevent inspectors beaming from Discovery, it also allowed Discovery's shields to partially absorb the torpedoes (the torpedo and transporter frequencies could have been close enough to allow that - also, the ship DOES have Sphere data and the computer may have been in the process of upgrading the shields in the background after scanning 32nd century Earth ships and initial nearby technology when they arrived at The Colony in the previous episode - or just from scanning Booker's ship)... at least to the point where the shields would go down with 2 of the torpedoes hitting the ship without outright destroying it.
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I was not that impressed.
The USS Defiant (a Constitution class ship) was able to destroy 100 year old ships from the Mirror universe with 1 or 2 phaser shots of 2 seconds duration.
The power gap should be in the 'ridiculous' when comparing 32nd century and 23rd century (and yet, what we saw was maybe 100 years worth of power gap - aka 24th century).
But, in Discovery's defense, its possible the transporter sabotage device may have played a part in preventing Discovery from being destroyed (as both torpedo and transporter frequencies could have been close enough to allow the shields to at least absorb the 2 torpedoes and then collapse while still allowing moderate damage to seep through to the hull) along with the Sphere Data which already merged with the ship and was adjusting it in the background perhaps?
I think it's more for "Plot Armor" reasons, but the fact that Discovery Era ships looks "More Armored" then TOS era feels similar to what the US went through from WW2 to modern era where the Hull armor isn't as thick or strong, but we have other forms of Active defense to compensate for the weaker armor.
Random observations:
It was Book's Nautilus that tractored the Discovery out of the ice. How come Rhys thought she was "something big"? Certainly not compared to the hero ship.
Seems Saru deflected Pike's attempt at setting the chain of command straight in "Sorrow II" because he felt Burnham should take over. And she probably should, being senior to Commander rank and all. But somehow the technicalities favor Saru anyway, presumably because Saru was appointed Acting Captain and Burnham was appointed nothing. And apparently it's now within Saru's rights to give himself a fourth pit in the badge, to go with his new status. Now that's weird. But if Georgiou can become an Admiral...
Speaking of which, some two dozen badges on the memorial wall. It's darned difficult to do a rank analysis with this particular type of badge... But the total volunteer crew count implied is short of the "full" 134-136 once mentioned, which is fine and well.
Tilly expects the Gateway Arch to remain? Prime Finnish design and all, but really...
That's some faceted dilithium. I wonder if that's high quality, or low?
Fancy editing there, with them coming out of sporespace near Saturn and then suddenly being at Earth. Between which phrases of dialogue do we insert the hours that passed (seeing the ship was at high sublight but not quite relativistic yet)? And was UEDF comatose at the wheel when letting the heroes get that close? Also, how strong are those elephant ships, if they expect a fight with Wen's ships rather than a massacre, and can't even destroy the Discovery? Are future weapons weak because there's no dilithium to spare for making them strong, like there isn't for making them go?
Interesting that Book has been to Donatu yet Earth was "too far away"... But hey, it's a "new quadrant", in the original sense of the word. Or is it in the late TNG sense after all, and Hima and Donatu are in Beta?
The rest is technologically rather straightforward. But this is the first time we learn the host species of the Trill symbionts is actually the Trill species. Or at least as far as Saru can read the Sphere Data. Oh, well, time to stop beating that poor hobby-horse.
Timo Saloniemi
It was Book's Nautilus that tractored the Discovery out of the ice. How come Rhys thought she was "something big"? Certainly not compared to the hero ship.
Seems Saru deflected Pike's attempt at setting the chain of command straight in "Sorrow II" because he felt Burnham should take over. And she probably should, being senior to Commander rank and all. But somehow the technicalities favor Saru anyway, presumably because Saru was appointed Acting Captain and Burnham was appointed nothing. And apparently it's now within Saru's rights to give himself a fourth pit in the badge, to go with his new status. Now that's weird. But if Georgiou can become an Admiral...
Speaking of which, some two dozen badges on the memorial wall. It's darned difficult to do a rank analysis with this particular type of badge... But the total volunteer crew count implied is short of the "full" 134-136 once mentioned, which is fine and well.
Tilly expects the Gateway Arch to remain? Prime Finnish design and all, but really...
That's some faceted dilithium. I wonder if that's high quality, or low?
Fancy editing there, with them coming out of sporespace near Saturn and then suddenly being at Earth. Between which phrases of dialogue do we insert the hours that passed (seeing the ship was at high sublight but not quite relativistic yet)? And was UEDF comatose at the wheel when letting the heroes get that close? Also, how strong are those elephant ships, if they expect a fight with Wen's ships rather than a massacre, and can't even destroy the Discovery? Are future weapons weak because there's no dilithium to spare for making them strong, like there isn't for making them go?
Interesting that Book has been to Donatu yet Earth was "too far away"... But hey, it's a "new quadrant", in the original sense of the word. Or is it in the late TNG sense after all, and Hima and Donatu are in Beta?
The rest is technologically rather straightforward. But this is the first time we learn the host species of the Trill symbionts is actually the Trill species. Or at least as far as Saru can read the Sphere Data. Oh, well, time to stop beating that poor hobby-horse.
Timo Saloniemi
When they see Earth, it's in visual range, which could still be very far away.
EDF doesn't have long-range sensors.
Warning shots are weaker, I guess, or these raider ships aren't very strong.
This still doesn't remove the editing problem, because the continuous dialogue then extends to the moment where they definitely reach the Earth and the planetary defense forcefield goes up. (Suggesting, incidentally, that such fields didn't exist back in the 2250s, considering the hero lack of comprehension at seeing the generators.)
Yeah, the two torps might have been scaled back to only rattle Book's small ship. Or then scaled back to only destroy her but not anything bigger. With adjustable antimatter warheads, probably firing a weak one means there's more oomph left for the ones not fired, a concern for UEDF. At least if their torps use antimatter.
But of course they'd still fire two, in case one was a dud...
One tech issue I failed to comment on: when the workbees and astromech droids spot-weld utterly random spots of the hull, we see a pair of big barrels right next to the camera. Which part of the ship is that? Have those things always been there at the nacelle bow ends or something? Or are they retractable? New additions?
...Are they the so far elusive torpedo tubes, meaning even the visual team is involved in spin control come this new season?
Timo Saloniemi
Yes, in context Rhys’s ‘big’ line doesn’t make sense. I was expecting to see a much larger ship than something that fits in Discovery’s shuttlebay.
And on the subject of ships, why do we only see Burnham’s vessel once, and then we’re right back to the Nautilus? What happened to her ship? Why did they even make a ship for her? Why didn’t she just stay with Book the whole time?
The whole scene with the EDF ships was awkward. First we’re told that two ships are entering orbit, but there’s clearly like five of them. Then we’re told that ‘Earth’ is firing on them, but it’s the EDF ships that are doing the firing. It sounds like the planet was doing the shooting when it clearly wasn’t.
And on the subject of ships, why do we only see Burnham’s vessel once, and then we’re right back to the Nautilus? What happened to her ship? Why did they even make a ship for her? Why didn’t she just stay with Book the whole time?
The whole scene with the EDF ships was awkward. First we’re told that two ships are entering orbit, but there’s clearly like five of them. Then we’re told that ‘Earth’ is firing on them, but it’s the EDF ships that are doing the firing. It sounds like the planet was doing the shooting when it clearly wasn’t.
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The two barrels are the prongs in the middle of the deflector dish, methinks. I’m not sure of the room Tilly’s in to be able to fit behind it, though..,
Mark
Mark
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I guess it's possible Book has a fleet of ships to choose from, including a coaxial-warp ship he can't afford to take out except on Sundays.
Or it could have been Zareh's confiscated ship. But Rhys should have been able to identify that one.
Perhaps the Nautilus just has the secret superpower to appear big, just like it has the secret superpower to fold up upon herself so that she fits in the Discovery bay? And perhaps Book just likes to use that feature for the shits and giggles.
Supposedly Book isn't big on her crusade to find the Federation, so they'd have to split for business?
Amen to that. Plenty of disconnect between visuals and story here.
Timo Saloniemi
Yes, 2 probes are the deflector.
As for weapons, come up with other names.. No update from quantum torpedoes? What about transphasic?
The future is a bit meh in its depictions of improvements over the past 1000 years.
As for weapons, come up with other names.. No update from quantum torpedoes? What about transphasic?
The future is a bit meh in its depictions of improvements over the past 1000 years.
Agreed to a point, but you have to understand that just because the armor of a TOS ship isn't as thick as the one on new ships, it doesn't mean the new armor/hull wouldn't be far superior... technical efficiency allows us to do more with less... and I would imagine that since Federation was using Duranium and Tritanium in ship construction, both materials underwent advancements which would allow the Federation to create say paper-thin hull if they wanted in 24th century and beyond, but with flexibility, durability, adaptability and strength of the material being hundreds of times (if not thousands of times) superior to those found on TOS era ships (we've seen something similar 'In the Mirror Darkly' when the NX-01 class ship attacked the USS Defiant while its shields were down... sure, the Defiant rocked etc... but there was 0 visible damage to the hull).
Simply because of sheer advancement that would occur in 930 years (heck, even if you assume technology 'stalled' at a point when The Burn happened, that would still leave 810 years of massive advancements).
I don't think any amount of 'jiggling' here of plot armor would allow a 23rd century ship (or for that matter 29th century ships) to survive a single Quantum torpedo from the 31st century.
This is why I think the only way we could 'possibly' justify it is that we know shields can nullify weapons if adjusted to appropriate frequencies.
We know Adira installed a device that tapped directly into Disco's shields which prevented inspectors from beaming off (and those personal transporters would be able to pass through Disco's shields regardless because we know that powerful enough transporter beams can penetrate weaker shields with brute force alone - aka signal strength - or with adjusting frequencies to do so)... so I'm inclined to think the transporter and quantum torpedo frequencies were close enough to allow Disco's shields to absorb the 2 torpedoes but still transfer moderate damage to the hull like we saw (that, and Disco may have already started using Sphere Data to analyse and try to adapt itself to the new technology it encountered - it had Booker's ship in its shuttlebay after all - it would be a nascent stage at best, but possibly enough to prevent outright destruction)... otherwise, 1 31st century (or in this case 32nd century) torpedo should be able to easily destroy Discovery.
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Fair enough, but at this point, even moderately armed Shuttles are a danger to Discovery.
I swear, they better research some basic Shield, Phaser, & Hull Armor tech upgrades.
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