ST Continues "To Boldly Go": A Fan Edit

[Matthew Raymond]

Among other things, they would also need to somehow impose the same yoke on their production that TOS had, namely a network to answer to, advertisers to please, and an audience to keep tuned in. I don't know how they'd do that, but the same results cannot be achieved without those same pressures.

Well, obviously we can't realistically reproduce these exact pressures for fan films, but is there a way to create a similar level of oversight? Perhaps a script writer's group where writers critique each other's work and give notes?

I've yet to see any fanfilm with a script as well-structured as even an episode of Gravity Falls.

As a Gravity Falls fan, I'm not sure I like what you're implying. Dost thou besmirch the the Gravity Falls/Rick and Morty multiverse?!?

 

[Maurice]

It's a kids show and it's better structured than any fanfilm. That says a lot about how poorly structured the latter are.

 

[XCV330]

STC hit one out of the ballpark, writing wise, with their first episode. I enjoy the series as a whole immensely. I did not care for the White Iris or the civil war episode. In retrospect it does seem like the were often trying to put lightening back in a bottle after the first episode. I wonder if they had not had to stop early, if they would have tried the "tie every thing up with a bow" approach to the final two episodes.

Now that a few years have passed, rewatching STC it's interesting the choices that were made. I'm not against the choice for how it ended. They could have simply soldiered on episodically, but they'd been sowing the seeds for the finale for awhile. I would have preferred that, acting as it it were Season 4 and it just didn't get renewed. But I'm grateful that they did it at all, and I enjoy watching it.

I have said it elsewhere but Haberkorn's Spock is really good; better than Quinto's and easily on par with Peck's. I enjoyed Chris Doohan's take on Scotty. His version of the character is obviously based on his father, but maybe a little edgier, a little close to the breaking point, and that makes sense from the standpoint of being in that ship for 5 years.

The McKenna character was always going to run into Cousin Oliver problems. I think Specht did a good job with it, anyway. I did not like the way they killed her off, but it was a pretty star trek way to do it. I like to think that it would have stayed in Scott's mind and given him an idea one day many years later.

 

[Maurice]

See, I don't think any STC episode had a good script except maybe "Lolani." Their first one is so stuffed with fan-service I barely made it through it. I think their scripts were generally better than the average fanfilm, and not quite as fanwanky as any NV script, but neither were they pro quality.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

Even Fontana's and Gerrold's scripts for New Voyages were rather subpar affairs, the former being rather surprisingly mediocre.

The latter script by Gerrold (Blood & Fire) is no great shakes either,

Spoiler: especially the ending

Alex Freeman is infected by the bloodworms and must sacrifice himself, bereaving Peter Kirk

. How Gerrold could do this, knowing how many of his fellow LGBT's feel about that kind of ending when it involves gay and lesbian characters (and especially considering this incident concerning this show, the protest against which spawned this con), I have no idea.

But the fact is that screenwriting is hard, and it takes a lot of working at it to produce anything any good.

I know that from experience, having tried (and failed) to write a TV script and a novel.

And when you start by trying to connect dots and do callbacks and sequels you're handicapping yourself from the get-go.

Sometimes it works (Discovery and Picard) and as you've shown, sometimes it doesn't (Star Trek Continues).[/QUOTE]

 

[albion432]

Shatner doing what he did on the set of TOS was a dick prima donna move that just got him enmity for years to come from the others except for Kelly. At least he wasn't like this guy on the set of a certain police procedural set in Hawaii, who did the same thing, but was even worse.

I totally agree with you here, and I used to lament the fact that he oft times prevented the secondary characters from have more to say or to do. I don't feel that way anymore. While I love each and every supporting character, I eventually realized that had Shatner not been a prima donna on set, Star Trek wouldn't be the same show we have come to love today. And while it may have been better otherwise, it's equally possible that it could have been worse. With the fan films as examples of how Star Trek might have played out had the secondary characters had more to say and do (it doesn't play all that well for me), it seems even more likely that Shatner made the right call. He may have been disliked by his coworkers, but he likely improved the final product.

Btw, that guy from the Hawaiian police show was Roddenberry's initially pick for Kirk, but when he demanded 50% ownership of the show, Roddenberry passed him up for Shatner. I, for one, am thankful the guy was greedy!

 

[STEPhon IT]

I don't believe Shatner's interpretations are fair and it's clouded by actors who suddenly thought their roles were as important as the main cast. My understanding the birth of the Star Trek Conventions had propel these disgruntled actors to shine and create a world which were off base. Season 3 of Star Trek was very difficult for Shatner, he was going through a divorce and his vehicle show was failing. The scripts he thought was not very good and from his perspective he was trying desperately to save the series from cancellation. He was working hand in hand with the producers and the directors on set and would have discussions on how to impact the performances, lets not forget Nimoy was just as guilty of taking lines from actors in particular James Doohan where Spock is now chatting engineering stuff while the Chief Engineer is RIGHT THERE.

Shatner was unfairly the fall guy because he was direct and didn't have the time to apologize or consider those actors as an ensemble... which they weren't. I thought one of the biggest mistakes of the movies were having those supporting actors around when they should've wrote them off after TWOK.

 

[albion432]

Well, obviously we can't realistically reproduce these exact pressures for fan films, but is there a way to create a similar level of oversight? Perhaps a script writer's group where writers critique each other's work and give notes?

I've thought about this very point, and you're correct, it would be difficult, even impossible, to emulate the conditions and restraints the creators of TOS contended with. Something like a writer's group could work, but who would comprise it? It would be equally difficult/impossible to recreate the quality of the original creative staff of TOS. It seems that a Robert Justman type figure would be essential, someone to point out the shortcomings of the script. Most importantly, the creators of the fan film would have to want the input, which I have a feeling would not always be the case. It does seem an impossible task to recreate the proper conditions that would lead to the same caliber of storytelling that TOS presented.

Despite my criticism of fan films, I realize how hard it is to produce anything of quality, and I do respect productions like STC and have a deep gratitude for what they have done.

 

[albion432]

that includes the one I wrote waaaay back in 2004.

Was your script produced?

 

[Maurice]

Was your script produced?

No. It's discussed over here (link) w/an annotated work-in-progress script which gets into a lot of the particulars of screenplay writing.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Well, obviously we can't realistically reproduce these exact pressures for fan films, but is there a way to create a similar level of oversight? Perhaps a script writer's group where writers critique each other's work and give notes?

Is it possible STC camp had such a group and made compromises and still the scripts were what they were? The compromises could've been how much fanservice they should inject into their movies. Is there enough in the script for our great cast wouldn't believe they're wasting their time in Georgia? The one thing I doubt was these productions were shooting on a first draft, there had to be multiple drafts before Vic hit the green light.

 

[Maurice]

I can't speak to STC, but Gschnitzer used to say they at NV tried to, to paraphrase him, "meet their fans expectations," which I argued meant pandering to the detriment to their scripts at the level they were doing it.

But people make the films they want to make.

 

[albion432]

No. It's discussed over here (link) w/an annotated work-in-progress script which gets into a lot of the particulars of screenplay writing.

I enjoyed Starship Exeter, and I seem to remember some conceptual artwork based on your script, regarding the aliens in the story. It's a shame it won't be produced. Ever try to get it made into an Exeter comic? I know they (at least one) exists.

 

[Maurice]

There was a one-off Exeter TAS comic, yeah. I'd rather discuss Exeter over in the Atlantis Invaders thread than here, though.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I thought one of the biggest mistakes of the movies were having those supporting actors around when they should've wrote them off after TWOK.

Then why bother to have Star Trek movies be made, then? The appeal of the movies was seeing all of the cast come back, no matter how mistaken Doohan, Takei, Koeing, and Nichols were about how their characters should've been on The Original Series. And what stories would be told in these post-TWOK movies?

 

[STEPhon IT]

Shaka Zulu, the interesting idea about the Romulans and their desire for Genesis, creating new grounds for upstart characters like Saavik, and David Marcus and introducing new young faces in the movies. When I first saw TWOK, I didn't think the movie gave the impression Nichelle and the rest would return, but there they were in TSFS and I never felt their impact. No disrespect to those characters so just hear me out -- I do love those characters, but speaking objectively -- what was disappointing about TSFS was the lost for big ideas. During the closing of TWOK my brain was going overdrive just thinking about the possibilities, I could hardly wait to see the next chapter on my Dad's laserdisk collection for family night; that's the impact that movie had for me. As much as I found TVH, my fav Trek movie, extremely entertaining - I still wanted Star Trek to go out there. No more launching from Earth, just have Kirk, McCoy, Saavik, David and the new fresh crew aboard the Enterprise within the depth of deep space.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

^Saavik and David travelling space with Kirk, Spock and McCoy was as unlikely as Marvel Comics aquiring DC Comics, or vice versa (for one, Merrick Butterick didn't want to play David Marcus forever, for two, most likely Robin Curtis also didn't want to play Saavik forever, so that shoots down your whole idea right there.) Nobody at Paramount was ever going to not have the rest of the crew there for the movies, as cool and amazing as you or others like you wanted this to happen (and what you just mentioned is only going to happen with the Kelvinverse characters, in particular Chekov not coming back in a future movie due to the untimely passing of Anton Yelchin.)

 

[Matthew Raymond]

It's a kids show and it's better structured than any fanfilm. That says a lot about how poorly structured the latter are.

Only if you presume poor structure in the former. I'd say there's a lot of very good writing in media intended for children. Shows like Gravity Falls, Avatar: The Last Airbender and Tron: Uprising have significant adult fanbases. (Hell, half of YouTube did videos on the series finale of She-ra and the Princesses of Power.) Yes, there are some very poorly written children's shows, but I don't accept the premise that those shows are poorly written because they're written for a general audience that includes children.

(Although shows that are written solely for children and not for adults are usually pretty bad. I'll never forget how bad that Little Einsteins episode with the wish boxes was. Dumbest thing I've every seen on television. The show title is a lie!)

Is it possible STC camp had such a group and made compromises and still the scripts were what they were?

Entirely. Rewrites don't necessarily make scripts better. There are a lot of compromises that writers can be forced to make, and it can drain you of your creativity and resolve.

That said, I'm not sure that's what happened to STC. It seems more like the writers were choosing to make sequels to previous Star Trek episodes. I don't think there was really anyone in the writers' room telling them not to. You need a true critical eye to catch stuff like that.

 

[Bixby]

STC had a ''writer's room''?

 

[Bixby]

I'm teasing (partly), but I will give credit to them for two things: having a number of professional actors among their cast gave STC an advantage as far as spoken dialogue. amateur actors from many other Trek fanfilms would not have the ear nor the experience to tweak their scripts when needed. And second, they many times resisted the urge to just do no-content/ dogfights in space type of episodes.
However like most other amateur productions they fell prey to established characters acting out-of-character, lapses in story logic, excessive fanwankery and lack of true danger in their storylines.