• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

SPOILERS - Wonder Woman 1984 - Review Thread

I think I liked '84 better than the first. But I also think it's the more flawed film.

Gadot was excellent, as was Chris Pine. Those two really work well together, and the emotional arc worked so well that it carried me through the kind of dull middle section of the film. I really enjoyed the humanity of Diana having to surrender the only reward she could ever ask for in order to regain her strength and save the world. It both effectively conveyed the journey she's been on as a character, and gave that note of tragedy to being a mythic hero that the DC films have kind of reached for.

I expected to hate Max Lord, as the idea of the character became clear during the film. Maybe it's the earnestness with which Pascal played him, but I feel like it worked better than it should have. His motivation was shallow, but believable. He was a loser who would do anything to be a winner. No matter the cost. Almost. That ending was beautifully Wonder Woman. No fisticuffs, just truth and love. This is how you show greatness in your hero, by having them stay true to the ideals they claim to stand for and embody them in the face of challenge. (Taking notes, Mr. Snyder? No, I didn't think so.)

Barbara Minerva. Wiig does a great job with not a whole lot of material. I rolled my eyes so hard when the character was introduced, she was such a stereotypical nerd loser with a social crush on the hero. I had visions of Electro from Amazing Spider-man 2. But Patty Jenkins and Wiig succeed in giving the character some meat. I kind of love that the most sinister thing about Minerva is her insecurity, but that it opens the door so something truly evil. I do think it's a bit of a shame that she's just a henchwoman at the climax of the film. And I thought the mutant cat form of Cheetah looked extremely cheesy, but that may be inevitable with the concept.

Also, going to be completely honest, but prior to watching this film it never once occurred to me to see Kristin Wiig as sexy. That's not at all a comment on the actress, I've not consumed much media in which she has appeared, but my mental image of her was very much SNL, not Vogue. But girl can work it. Damn. In spite of myself I was totally drooling when she showed up in the cheetah print outfit. I absolutely love that they managed to make her believably a vixen, without going vamp.

I did find the action scenes fairly trite and dull. Some of the lasso shenanigans were cool, but the most iconic image in the film, to me, was Diana using the lasso to swing from the lightning bolts, and that was just transitional and not part of a fight scene. And the golden Amazon armor was completely superfluous, lasting only moments before being discarded. I guess it was a fun way to work in Lynda Carter, but it was otherwise unnecessary to the film. And I feel like it could have stood to be 20-25 minutes shorter. I was, frankly, bored during the middle of the film. But not as bored as I was by the entire third act of the first one.

Also the cheetah character was off for me. Here was a basically good person that seemed to turn 'evil' for no real reason. Yes she wanted to keep her powers but it seemed to reach for me that she suddenly wanted revenge in some fashion.

When she made her wish, the price she paid was her kindness, her empathy. In order to become hot and popular, as she imagined Diana to be, she gave up the one thing about her that was truly beautiful and worthy of admiration.

Her wish sort of made her into a sociopath. Everything after just sort of followed from the selfishness and delusions of grandeur. I thought her arc was actually pretty good. The movie could have been a little bit clearer on why she ultimately renounced her wish at the end. I assume the lasso's truth power made her see that she had quite literally turned herself into a monster, but I felt like they could have given us a little bit more closure there.
 
I expected to hate Max Lord, as the idea of the character became clear during the film. Maybe it's the earnestness with which Pascal played him, but I feel like it worked better than it should have. His motivation was shallow, but believable. He was a loser who would do anything to be a winner. No matter the cost. Almost. That ending was beautifully Wonder Woman. No fisticuffs, just truth and love. This is how you show greatness in your hero, by having them stay true to the ideals they claim to stand for and embody them in the face of challenge. (Taking notes, Mr. Snyder? No, I didn't think so.)
I liked everything you wrote, but here you really nailed it. I just posted something along the same lines but I like your version better. :}
 
Overall I liked it but it wasn’t as good as the first one. I think Cheetah looked pretty good and Wiig was very good. And Pascal was also very good. Usually it’s a woman in a clothes changing montage so it was nice to see a man doing it for once.

I hope the third movie brings Wonder Woman to the present day.

Couple of Easter eggs:
Duke of Deception was one of the names given for the God who created the wish stone. He’s one of Wonder Woman’s villains.

Maxwell Lord’s upset investor was Simon Stagg who’s an antagonist to Meramorpho.
 
Not nearly as bad as some DCEU films, but way too long & boring.

Suffers from Mad Men syndrome, where everything is so, so 80's but also so, so brand new. Nothing is lived in.

Every scene drags on and feels like it could be chopped in half, right from the opening race through the end.

I feel bad for the guy Chris Pine possessed. Neither Pine nor Diana even considered the fact that they stole his life and basically killed him. Not a single mention of this all movie. Not even the end when Pine convinces her to "do the right thing". I mean, they had sex using his unwilling, unknowing body. That should raise some moral issues....

The climax - they had Lord broadcasting to everyone on earth. I thought they were gonna go all the way and have Diana snap his neck on live TV. Nope, she knocks the cameras away and gives a speech. Sure, it would have repeated Man of Steels ending, but they already spent 5 minutes showing how the superman flying pose is really the Wonder Woman flying pose, so who cares?

Who wants to bet the Christmas ending was tagged on after they changed the date to Dec 25?

So they found Asteria's corpse, stripped her naked, took her armour back to the island, left her body, but she wasn't dead and she's been super heroing for 4000 years without anyone noticing?

Wonder Woman can make things invisible now?

The wish stuff never made much sense at all.

So after all that Lord is just... free? No repercussions?

I liked Kristen Wiig as Cheetah, although her transformation was a Batman Returns Selena Kyle knock-off.

Ah well. Killed two and a half hours during a pandemic Christmas.
 
Last edited:
So they found Asteria's corpse, stripped her naked, took her armour back to the island, left her body, but she wasn't dead and she's been super heroing for 4000 years without anyone noticing?
.

Asteria was never seen again after the Amazons left her behind. Diana tells Steve that when she came to the world she went looking for her, but all she was able to find was the armor.

As to the rest, yes. Turns out Wonder Women are particularly sneaky about their superheroing.
 
I love the first two acts of the first one, but thought the finale was a total dud.

This is the opposite. Most of the film was kind of a plodding bore, but it absolutely stuck the landing.

Pedro's had a big week with endings.
 
Asteria was never seen again after the Amazons left her behind. Diana tells Steve that when she came to the world she went looking for her, but all she was able to find was the armor.

As to the rest, yes. Turns out Wonder Women are particularly sneaky about their superheroing.

I must have missed the line that they found her armour but not her body.
 
Should’ve streamed on Hallmark Channel. I guess it’s competently helmed but I just don’t really think there’s any point coming back to this one again.
 
Bad:
- The movie is a bit uneven.

Richard Pearson's editing was awful. It lacked pacing of any kind and simply attached one scene to another in a workman, "just get this job done" fashion sans understanding how to let related moments or chapters flow from one to another. Too many recent superhero movies suffer from this kind of disjointed editing (see: Avengers: Endgame).

There are definitely some "don't think about it" moments. For example, Diana and Steve just getting into a plane at the Smithsonian and flying off. I'm pretty sure planes on exhibit are not fully fueled and ready to fly.

Yes--that was ridiculous. No plane on display is actually functional, and certainly not a military plane with its weapons still in place. More of the "just get this job done" plotting in effect.

The worst issue with the movie might be how they bring Steve back. He basically takes over a person's body without their permission. We even see Diana sleep with Steve when he would be in another person's body. The movie totally glosses over this big ethical issue.

It was very bad of Diana to jump into bed with him. That guy could have been seeing someone. If the genders were reversed it would have looked even worse.

Jenkins and Johns will never address how immoral that was at all. In fact, no one in today's entertainment business and news media is likely to address that (in any serious manner or at all), unless the roles were reversed and a male hero had sex with the possessed body of a woman. Then, and only then would it be considered immoral and possibly charged with advocating something darker. The basic morality play about desire was in place, but, there are no moral repercussions for what Dianandid with the man's body. None.

Then, there were no consequences for Barbara consciously murdering the drunk at all; her last scene was more about her thinking about what got her to her current place (the desires to be different), but the idea of kicking a man to death was A-OK to Jenkins and Johns. Not a word about that from Barbara.

Yeah, the exaggerated stuff with her jumping and flipping around was, but looking closely you could see that a lot of the simpler stuff was a costume.

...and with most superhero films using CG stunt people, it is a distraction due to it being so clearly artificial.

One other thing I meant to comment on, is it really amazes me how many of these movies take out the character's main, big nemesis from the comics out in one movie. I would think they would want to keep characters like Ares and Cheetah for Wonder Woman, Zod for Superman, or Green Goblin and Doc Ock for Spider-Man, around for potential rematches in future movies. At least Aquaman kept both Ocean Master and Black Manta alive, and Dr. Strange and Thor kept Mordo and Loki around.

On that point, one would think some producers feel characters as old as Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Superman, et al, have a deep bench of villains to use, so keeping one alive is not necessary. Further, the villain having death as the only possible outcome implies (from a screenwriting perspective) that he was too dangerous to live, which allows some writers to go "all out" with their villainy. Better examples would be Man of Steel's Zod (and Superman's response to Zod's evil acts), Raimi's Green Goblin, and MCU's Red Skull. In each case, the film benefited from logical reason why the villain died.

There are a couple times where Maxwell Lord tells his son that he will be a success soon and his son will be proud of him. So his motivation was earning the love and admiration of his son.

But his wanting his son to be proud of him had nothing to do with his origin point of creating the Black Gold scam (see: flashbacks), which predated the birth of his son. He was scamming and greedy for money long before the child came along, so most of his actions have little or nothing to do with his relationship to his son, the reason why I said this film's plot merely earned a C due to failing to establish a believable motive why Lord would go so far, and I will add risk his life with some magical rock he clearly did not understand.

The big franchise-related takeaway from Wonder Woman 1984 is all in the writing; the first film knew what kind of character and environment they wanted to construct, which perfectly and logically linked it to the rest of the DCEU. This film--aside from some Diana/WW moments and the Themyscira flashback--is (as noted yesterday) sort of an outlier from what was successfully established in the earlier movies. The reasons for this film's problems are too glaring to miss.
 
Last edited:
My ranking so far:
MoS
BvS
WW
Aquaman
Shazam
WW84
Suicide Squad
Justice League
Birds of Prey
 
Sophomore curse. I too found it much less than the first, with lots of forgettable action scenes. I've seen other films or shows where the hero is depowered to emphasize their struggle (or some such), and that's not why we watch these shows - we don't want to see them that way, we want to see them use their powers.

Oddly enough, I can accept a magical Amazon princess having powers to make a jet invisible, more than I can accept that a) the Smithsonian Museum has a British Tornado jet fighter with ferry tanks fueled and ready to go, b) a Tornado with a 2,400 mile ferry range can fly to Cairo and back (11,000 miles?), c) a WWI fighter pilot can figure out how to start up and fly a Tornado. Metaphysics and magic is one thing, but a Tornado is a real thing with real statistics. Also, flying a jet fighter into a field of exploding fireworks is sort of suicidal.

Did anybody else think this was an ass-backwards, left-handed interpretation of A Christmas Carol? Max was Scrooge, but instead of Ghosts teaching just him a lesson, the entire world had to learn the lesson by their own hubris.

And seriously, would all 7 billion people willingly renounce their wishes so quickly and easily? There had to be holdouts. In fact I didn't hear Barbara renounce hers.

Lucy Lawless?? I had no idea she was associated with WW at all. The ONLY person who could play that cameo was Lynda.
 
I got the impression that Lord renouncing his wish made all wishes he granted null and void. They didn’t need to be renounce their wishes
 
Just because you realize something was 'bad' and then you go and intentionally use it as a kind of 'lampoon' effect doesn't make the thing suddenly 'less bad'.

The overly 'cheese-acting/scripted' elements "inspired" by 80s quality made things pretty uneven.

The performances by the main actors in this were actually pretty good. Gadot is a very good Wonder Woman and her continued decades long mourning for the love of her life was expressed really well. Chris Pine immediately brightened the film as soon as he appeared, his chemistry with Gadot is great and his characters reactions to the 'future' were fun. Wiig surprised me the most because I never would have pictured her as a comic villain with super powers fighting against Wonder Woman, but I thought she did a good job.

Pedro Pascal was very fun as Maxwell Lord. It's easy to see that type of character fall into a one-note mustache-twirly villain type so kudos to the writing and acting there.

But the rest of the film they were in, the actions/acting/lines of supporting characters or just random people or characters was often really cringe and way too "ha-ha. This is 80s acting quality? Get it? Ha-ha!"

At times it felt more like watching the 80s version of Supergirl or Superman III in terms of how the characters acted/talked.

Just because movies or TV produced in a certain time period may have had subpar acting or writing doesn't mean when you set your movie in that time period you need to go back and have YOUR ACTORS and WRITING emulate that subpar stuff.
 
I got the impression that Lord renouncing his wish made all wishes he granted null and void. They didn’t need to be renounce their wishes

Barbara is one caveat there though. She and Diana made their wishes on the wish stone before Maxwell got it and became the wish stone.

Diana renounced her wish. Did we actually see Barbara renounce hers? She stopped being Cheetah, but that happened after she talked with Max on the plane and made 'another wish' and became the alpha predator. So she could technically still have her original wish of Diana's power.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top