SPOILERS - Wonder Woman 1984 - Review Thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by TREK_GOD_1, Dec 25, 2020.

  1. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Location:
    Escaped from Delta Vega
    REVIEW: Wonder Woman 1984
    DCEU #9


    Diana / Wonder Woman: Like the majority of the DCEU's major character casting, Gadot is pretty much flawless, and had created an unforgettable version of the character.

    The opening narration has Gadot sounding as if she were elderly, as if this adventure was now in the remote past…along with the 21st century experiences.

    As in the first WW film, we are seeing Themyscira fully realized. Too bad it will likely be featured in a story set in the present.

    Trevor: So, he did not remember much after starting his doomed flight, but wherever he ended up, it was “good”. One would think he was in Heaven, but he’s not much with details, which should have been a red flag for Diana—along with her easy acceptance of his wish-born return.

    Thankfully, Trevor was not truly back as his original being. In other words, he was not back from the dead in a literal sense.

    Barbara Minerva / Cheetah: Insecure, nerdy Barbara using the Dreamstone to fulfill her desires would be somewhat understandable, if said desires were based in need, rather than want (the point). But the audience knows she’s driven by self-serving emotions, so this villainess lost even a hint of sympathy, when she was supposed to be sympathetic.

    She’s not a “born” deviant like the Red Skull, so her character needed the element of a woman in over her head thanks to a temporary wrong turn down an unethical lane, but that was not to be found in Minerva. This was compounded by the fact that she took the irredeemable step of murdering her would-be rapist. Revoked wish or not, she made a conscious decision to kill. That said, Kristen Wiig made the most out of her flawed character.

    THE GOOD: Some viewers have complained that Wonder Woman did not have much screen time, but I remind them that it was established that Diana had purposely laid low over the decades, only appearing when necessary, thus she was successful at remaining a hidden figure (which of, course ties into the general lack of public knowledge about her in Dawn of Justice).

    Diana said “the truth is bigger than all of us”—yes, that—and the simple morality tale (of not using power or deceit to satisfy personal desires) would be a good framing issue / struggle for several characters, but it was most effective with Diana herself still dealing with failings of greed (regarding Trevor’s return). Showing her being so weak was a solid way to show she is not perfect.

    After all of her years, she really learns to fly. So much for needing a jet.

    So, this film universe does not have invisibility technology—it is organic, generated by individuals. Not really a problem, as the Invisible Jet was never a make-or-break element for this version of Wonder Woman.

    The WW action scenes (and getting more displays of her strength) were striking as usual…except the CG Cheetah, because it was .too clearly...CG.

    THE BAD: In the finale, Diana appears to be happy, or settled with life as it stands, but having her be so joyful is not consistent with her lonely, sort of isolationist attitude the next time she is seen--in chronological order--in Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice and in the present-day scene at the end of Wonder Woman (even after emailing her thanks to Bruce Wayne for the photo).

    I’m not certain if Jenkins, et al., intended to overplay the gross end of 1980s culture, but similar to the mall / setting theme of Stranger Things’ third season, its directed with as much excess as many a cartoonish movie from that decade, to the point of distraction.

    Maxwell Lord: What bit of development Lord had as a caring father who had insecurity issues of his own behind the greed/business showmanship, was buried by a truckload of BS. Despite Johns and Jenkins claiming Lord was inspired by Wall Street’s Gordon Gekko and Hackman’s Lex Luthor, the obvious influence was a rather ridiculous caricature of Donald Trump (more than anyone else), which will not only date the film (ironically set in the past), but it removed the edge a would-be megalomaniac needed, if he became the living embodiment of wish fulfillment. Pascal was too over the top for this viewer to invest much interest in him. Lesson One to filmmakers wanting to take an obviously political shot: shut that crap down, or your zeal to jump on the soapbox to spread your message / create a “hit job” on a real person will take audiences out of the film.

    Diana says, “This world was a beautiful place…just as it was.” What? Of the three screenwriters, Johns and Jenkins are certainly old enough to know 1984 was anything but that (in so many categories), so the line made Diana appear naïve, particularly in the wake of seeing the tendencies and negative course of mankind during World War I, its aftermath and influence on the world.

    Lynda Carter stunt casting. Eh.

    WHERE IT STANDS IN THE DCEU: The irony of Jenkins wanting to shape Wonder Woman into solo films with their own tone / message, is that the far superior entry (the first film, obviously) was the darker, grittier film that was clearly produced in the creative environment of its DCEU predecessors, so there was a consistent creative and in-universe feel / path taken. In trying to move away from the best of the established universe of the DCEU in this specific manner, Wonder Woman 1984, stands as a partial outlier, and not in a successful way. Gal Gadot is a positively perfect in the role of Diana / Wonder Woman, and would be amazing--as usual--if she appeared in other DCEU films, but WB needs to take a serious, long look at this film before considering a third solo act.

    GRADE: Mixed.
    A
    - Gadot's performance / Themyscira sequence.
    C - The plot, and the lack of fleshed-out, believable motives behind Barbara and Lord using the Dreamstone.
     
  2. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    Just finished watching it. The app was pretty good but it did get stuck a few times. Probably just teething problems being a newish app with 4K video.
    The movie was good but the ending was pretty sappy. I would have just snapped his neck. :)
    It’s a shame it was the 80’s and that he didn’t see the Enterprise at Smithsonian. That would have been a good gag. Also they should have had him say “remember where we parked” when they land the invisible jet.
    The reveal of who the ancient Amazonian was fine but I still would have gone with Lucy Lawless. Surprised there wasn’t more. I was expecting a Snyder Cut tease.
     
  3. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2000
    Location:
    Terre Haute, IN. USA
    Grade: B-

    Good:
    - Gal Gadot continues to shine as WW. She is not just gorgeous but her radiance and warmth come through. And she nails the role. Pedro Pascal is fantastic as Max Lord. Chris Pine is great as Steve.
    - Beautiful movie. Great cinematography. Great soundtrack. The whole flashback scene in Themyscira is breathtaking.
    - There are some genuinely great moments like Diana and Steve in the invisible jet flying through the fireworks and the scene with Wonder Woman coming down through the clouds in the gold armor.
    - There are also some really touching emotional moments like Diana saying goodbye to Steve and the scene between Max Lord and his son at the end.
    - The wonder in Steve's eyes at seeing the marvels of 1984 was great.
    - I also liked the grand finale. The movie makes it clear that the wishing stone can be undone if everyone renounces their wish. So it made sense that WW saves the day by getting everyone, including Maxwell Lord to give up their wish. And it was a very WW way of winning I think. I am glad she did not just punch her way to victory.

    Bad:
    - The movie is a bit uneven. It starts with a fun sequence of Wonder Woman stopping petty criminals in the mall and saving innocents. It feels a lot like Donner's Superman movie. But then it shifts to a more serious, grounded movie with Diana in civilian clothes, at work, meeting Barbara etc. It takes an hour before we see Wonder Woman again. The second half is better than the first half IMO.
    - There are definitely some "don't think about it" moments. For example, Diana and Steve just getting into a plane at the Smithsonian and flying off. I'm pretty sure planes on exhibit are not fully fueled and ready to fly. The lasso of truth is overused and OP. It can show the past to Steve. It can pull bullets out of the air. It can grab unto planes that are miles away. There are some bad edits where WW lassos a plane and then in the next scene, the lasso is around her hip and she uses it again.
    - And it might be in the comics but I am not sure how I feel about WW flying like Superman. It just does not really feel like a power WW should have IMO.
    - The big fight between WW in the gold armor and Cheeta is a bit underwhelming.
    -The worst issue with the movie might be how they bring Steve back. He basically takes over a person's body without their permission. We even see Diana sleep with Steve when he would be in another person's body. The movie totally glosses over this big ethical issue.
     
  4. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2000
    Location:
    Terre Haute, IN. USA
    That is more of a Superman/Batman move than a WW move.
     
  5. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    Wasn’t referring to that. That’s how she kills him in the comics.
    I agree about the flying but I think here she was just gliding.
     
  6. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I watched the movie as soon as it came up, and I really enjoyed it, I'd put it right up there with the first one.
    The highlights of the movie were the two opening scenes, the flashback to Diana as a kid on Themyscira, and the mall fight.
    The all four leads did a great job.
    One of the big questions going into the movie was how they were going to bring Steve back, and I was pretty happy with how they did in, it fit the story perfectly. The way they flipped the dynamic between him and Diana, with her now teaching him about life in the '80s was pretty fun. I was a little disappointed they got rid of Steve again at the end, but with the story they were telling it was pretty much the only way they could end it. For a second at the end, I thought maybe they were going to have her end up with the guy who's body Steve was in, but that would have opened a whole weird can of worms.
    As cheesy as it is, a tiny part of me is kind of hoping they take a page out of the Lynda Carter series playbook, and have Diana run into Steve's nephew, also named Steve and played by Chris Pine in the next movie.
    The other action scenes in the later part of the movie were pretty good, although none of them quite reached the level of the opening. The Wonder Woman/Cheetah fight was OK, but not quite as good the mall fight.
    Oh, and according to an interview with Patty Jenkins I read the majority of transformed Cheetah stuff was Kristin Wiig in makeup and a costume, not CGI.
    Completely disagree, her talking him down felt way more appropriate for this version of the character and the rest of the movie leading up to it.
    Sorry, but I've got to disagree again, that would not have been anywhere near as fun. Having the most significant other live action Wonder Woman play her was a lot more impactful than an actress who voiced her in one direct to video animated movie. Yes, I know she was also Xena, but Xena was not Wonder Woman, or even an Amazon. That was one of my favorite parts of the entire movie, and I'm hoping that it's a set up for a bigger role in the next movie, and not just a fun little Easter egg cameo.
     
  7. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    I was joking about the neck snapping. Hence the smiley face.
    Im surprised during that scene they didn’t show a young Bruce, but i suppose he probably wasn’t around a telly during it.
     
  8. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2006
    Location:
    Escaped from Delta Vega
    Agreed.

    That was an assbrained decision for the Carter TV series, and it would be just as bad if the DCEU mirrored that unbelievable act of plotting convenience. Diana revoking her wish and the pain it caused was a lesson she needed to learn; having a Trevor look-alike (or relative) show up would not only be ridiculous, but toss the lesson about the price of selfish desire and sacrifice taught to her in this story.

    The Cheetah engaged in the fight was clearly CG.
     
  9. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Yeah, the exaggerated stuff with her jumping and flipping around was, but looking closely you could see that a lot of the simpler stuff was a costume.
    One other thing I meant to comment on, is it really amazes me how many of these movies take out the character's main, big nemesis from the comics out in one movie. I would think they would want to keep characters like Ares and Cheetah for Wonder Woman, Zod for Superman, or Green Goblin and Doc Ock for Spider-Man, around for potential rematches in future movies. At least Aquaman kept both Ocean Master and Black Manta alive, and Dr. Strange and Thor kept Mordo and Loki around.
     
  10. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2017
    It was very bad of Diana to jump into bed with him. That guy could have been seeing someone. If the genders were reversed it would have looked even worse.
     
  11. marillion

    marillion Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
    Location:
    Making days brighter here in New Mexico
    Agreed, but at the same time I can understand why she did it. She’s been heatbroken for decades and suddenly her true love returns. Sorry, but emotions and hormones would probably overrule any kind of logic. To that end, also, after that scene, there is very little PDA.
    Overall, I give this a solid B.
    The jet thing really bugs me. It was a good scene overall with the fireworks, etc, but seemed very “Night at the Museum” to me. Plus, there’s no way Steve would be able to figure out how to fly even an old jet. It would also not have enough fuel to fly there and back again. I get it... just let it go, but it distracted me.

    Kristin Wiig was AMAZING in this. She killed the part and I loved her take on the role.

    Pascal was very good as well. I have never read WW comics so I don’t know Lord’s backstory but he did really well, bad wig (I assume) aside.

    My issue is that there was no real resolution for any of the villans.. Do they get a pass? What happens to them in the end???

    The credit scene was AWESOME!!! So great!! Would love for her to be in Pt. 3

    Oh and the Edda Candy nod was awesome too!
     
  12. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
  13. Q2UnME

    Q2UnME Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2003
    Location:
    Inman, SC
    As others have conveyed, I found that I enjoyed the first movie a bit more than this outing. Little uneven and probably could have used some additional editing; a little longer than it needed to be. Overall, I’d say 7.5 out of 10
     
  14. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    It might work if it was just a cameo, she would meet him, feel sad for moment, then move on from it. But on the whole I agree.
    Or even worse if Diana got pregnant.
     
    Anwar and TREK_GOD_1 like this.
  15. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Location:
    Noname Given
    I thought this movie had some very good moments and Gal Gadot is a marvelous actress who did very well with what she was given.

    But like others have said overall it was very uneven, and I thought it really could have used another editing pass. And yes I thought the final battle was both underwhelming and just kind of put in there because they had to have something.

    And IDK but Maxwell Lord's motivation was unclear in that did he really just want to rule
    the world / give everyone their wish? I understood him wanting his current venture to be successful; but it really spiraled into something that just didn't make a lot of sense. Also the cheetah character was off for me. Here was a basically good person that seemed to turn 'evil' for no real reason. Yes she wanted to keep her powers but it seemed to reach for me that she suddenly wanted revenge in some fashion.

    I loved most of the interaction between Gal Gadot and Chris Pine, And in the end it was nice to see her realize she had to let go for a variety of reasons; but yeah overall the film's plot was uneven and unfocused.

    I enjoyed the first film a lot more.
     
  16. Romulan_spy

    Romulan_spy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2000
    Location:
    Terre Haute, IN. USA
    There are a couple times where Maxwell Lord tells his son that he will be a success soon and his son will be proud of him. So his motivation was earning the love and admiration of his son. He wanted his son to look up to him and be proud of him. But Max gets carried away, not knowing what is good enough, and always wanting more. The ending really hits this home when Max apologizes to his son but his son says something like "I always loved you because you are my dad" We also see the flashback showing that Maxwell's dad mistreated him and made him feel like a loser. Maxwell had an inferiority complex and felt the need to prove that he was not a loser. So it is a major character arc for Max.
     
    Grendelsbayne and Anwar like this.
  17. Janeway’s Girl

    Janeway’s Girl Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2014
    I was SO HAPPY that we got flashbacks to Themyscira! I was worried we wouldn’t see it again. I love it whenever she uses the Lasso Of Truth because it’s such an awesome weapon and makes every scene epic!

    Watching Steve go crazy over the modern world was really fun. As soon as they mentioned taking a plane to Egypt I knew she was going to turn it invisible, and it was so cool!

    I didn’t like Max Lord and Barbara/Cheetah as the villains. Didn’t really enjoy the second half of the movie. Max going nuts with the wishing just seemed weird. The movie felt too long.

    Nice cameo from Lynda Carter.

    It was an okay movie but I enjoyed the first one a lot more.

    I don’t remember hearing her theme throughout the movie?
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    The bad guy was Loki, right?

    A trickster god of lies with many names.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
  19. M'rk son of Mogh

    M'rk son of Mogh Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    It was alright. Pretty disappointed overall. Gadot did great with some very cheesy lines, and there were a lot of over the top and cartoony moments. Like Steve driving the tank/vehicle standing up AND loading and firing the missile as easily as he did in Cairo, not to mention flying the jet to get there, just lots of little distracting moments like that. Yet I thought Pine did an equally good job. Cast and acting was definitely perfect, really.

    Also think it would have been a better movie if it wasn't Wonder Woman, but more of a Twilight Zone Monkey's paw type of movie.
     
    Anwar likes this.
  20. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Although I thought the Lasso was overpowered this time around, what was shown is Diana using it the way it's meant to be, dealing with Lord and wishes in a way only Diana could. In this situation with what was happening around the world I can't see Superman or Batman solving the crisis at all, much less peacefully. This was Wonder Woman at her finest. Besides, we already saw her take out Cheetah.
    At the start of the film he was insolvent, on the verge of bankruptcy, playing a Ponzi scheme, probably about to be arrested for fraud. The thing with the wishes is that it was a Monkey's Paw, there is always a cost, and that cost has terrible effects. The more he used it the more out of control he became. Effectively, he didn't have a motivation other than having lost his sanity. It was supposed to spiral out of control, as did all of those events throughout history that brought down civilizations.

    The same holds true for Cheetah, Barbara had an understandable motive that made me sympathetic, , but the cost was to drive her into being a killer. That was her cost.

    It strikes me that the cost for the three of them was effectively the same. Barbara and Maxwell lost their humanity, while Diana was losing her "Amazonity".
    There was also the time he was complaining about how often he had his son, with him in earshot, causing him to run off probably crying. I'm motivated by wanting my son to be proud of me too. I don't do that through ongoing multi-million dollar fraud. I did it by getting a business degree and making good use of it, among dozens of other ways, similar to what most dads do.

    BTW, why did child Diana lose the contest at the beginning? She cheated. That's what she did bringing Steve back, what Lord did, what Barbara did. That's why in the open voiceover monologue, she says she wished she'd paid more attention.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
    Grendelsbayne likes this.