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[Spoilers] Seriously flawed plotline

I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan ...
<snip>
... opinions five months before a film is released when you don't have the facts.

-Shawn :borg:


I liked Battlefield Earth.

really? well...


"Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes....
...
...
...
...In the first case it was necessary to renounce the consciousness of an unreal immobility in space and to recognize a motion we did not feel; in the present case it is similarly necessary to renounce a freedom that does not exist, and to recognize a dependence of which we are not conscious.
I like pie.


EDIT TO ADD:
I apologize pre-emptively for stepping on a moderator's toes.
 
Yup, everyone who's against this movie is only worried about plant colors. :rolleyes:

From what I've read here, for the most part, yeah. Not exactly the plant colors, of course, but issues akin to it. Its time to bust the mold and leave the canon crap behind and see if Abrams can make Trek fun and relevent again. Here's hoping he can. And damn the canon.:p
 
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So we take a character who had a really interesting backstory. Tarsus IV anyone? And we're replacing it with poor Jimmy being raised by Uncle Druncle, so he turns out a turd.

Major step up there. :rolleyes:

I will have you know, young lad, that this James Kirk was being raised by Uncle Druncle to wear really cool Procuct Placement undergarments by Under Armor on screen.

Know your place, Trekkie! Haven't you ever heard of Suspension of Disbelief?
 
I am sorry but, honestly you can not make any critiques of the quality of the writing of this film, when you have not seen it or the script yet.

its ok to make critical comments about things, but it helps to have seen more than 2 mins of the thing your critiqueing before doing so.

From what we now know, Kirk is a cadet when he sneaks onboard the Enterprise. Then, when Pike goes off-ship to deal with an emergency, Spock is placed in command and Pike makes Kirk the First Officer under Spock. This is despite the fact that Scotty, McCoy, Uhura, Sulu and a hundred other officers are onboard. An insubordinant and almost criminal cadet is promoted to First Officer ... and then, having been goaded by future Spock, Kirk provokes young Spock into losing his emotional cool, at which point he assumes command of the Enterprise, once again without hundreds of other officers objecting to this jump in the chain of command.

If this were some generic sci-fi movie shown on a Sunday afternoon on the Sci-Fi Channel, I could ignore that incredibly poorly thought out and illogical (yes, I'm opening up space for Spock jokes) plot and then make fun of it on here the next day ... but this is Star Trek! Forgetting that the characters and ship already have a well-defined history that's being rewritten, it's supposed to be, well, you know, good. And not totally illogical and unbelievable.

Yes, I'll still be first in line to see the movie, yes, I'm still a Star Trek fan, but come on, couldn't they have done better than this to reboot the franchise? Poor poor poor writing.
 
Why are folks still asking why? This film obviously deviates from TOS and isn't TOS so why do we have threads asking why?? Take it for what it is. Its not TOS-its a reimagining and if you can't see that now then you'd better not watch the film or you'll be in for one heck of a disappointment.
 
Why are folks still asking why? This film obviously deviates from TOS and isn't TOS so why do we have threads asking why?? Take it for what it is. Its not TOS-its a reimagining and if you can't see that now then you'd better not watch the film or you'll be in for one heck of a disappointment.
Again, how do you know this? All indications by the people involved say that it doesn't deviate from TOS. I don't get how making it more accessible to a wider audience deviates from TOS.

-Shawn :borg:
 
Why are folks still asking why? This film obviously deviates from TOS and isn't TOS so why do we have threads asking why?? Take it for what it is. Its not TOS-its a reimagining and if you can't see that now then you'd better not watch the film or you'll be in for one heck of a disappointment.
Again, how do you know this? All indications by the people involved say that it doesn't deviate from TOS. I don't get how making it more accessible to a wider audience deviates from TOS.

-Shawn :borg:
How is it like TOS?
 
Why are folks still asking why? This film obviously deviates from TOS and isn't TOS so why do we have threads asking why?? Take it for what it is. Its not TOS-its a reimagining and if you can't see that now then you'd better not watch the film or you'll be in for one heck of a disappointment.
Again, how do you know this? All indications by the people involved say that it doesn't deviate from TOS. I don't get how making it more accessible to a wider audience deviates from TOS.

-Shawn :borg:
How is it like TOS?
How is it not?

The production staff have all said that they've made every effort to stay faithful to Trek canon. So until you see the movie, don't you think you're just going to have to take their word for it?

-Shawn :borg:
 
Why are folks still asking why? This film obviously deviates from TOS and isn't TOS so why do we have threads asking why?? Take it for what it is. Its not TOS-its a reimagining and if you can't see that now then you'd better not watch the film or you'll be in for one heck of a disappointment.
Again, how do you know this? All indications by the people involved say that it doesn't deviate from TOS. I don't get how making it more accessible to a wider audience deviates from TOS.

-Shawn :borg:
How is it like TOS?


well.... it has the same crew members. just played by different actors.
 
From what we now know, Kirk is a cadet when he sneaks onboard the Enterprise. Then, when Pike goes off-ship to deal with an emergency, Spock is placed in command and Pike makes Kirk the First Officer under Spock. This is despite the fact that Scotty, McCoy, Uhura, Sulu and a hundred other officers are onboard. An insubordinant and almost criminal cadet is promoted to First Officer ... and then, having been goaded by future Spock, Kirk provokes young Spock into losing his emotional cool, at which point he assumes command of the Enterprise, once again without hundreds of other officers objecting to this jump in the chain of command.

If this were some generic sci-fi movie shown on a Sunday afternoon on the Sci-Fi Channel, I could ignore that incredibly poorly thought out and illogical (yes, I'm opening up space for Spock jokes) plot and then make fun of it on here the next day ... but this is Star Trek! Forgetting that the characters and ship already have a well-defined history that's being rewritten, it's supposed to be, well, you know, good. And not totally illogical and unbelievable.

Yes, I'll still be first in line to see the movie, yes, I'm still a Star Trek fan, but come on, couldn't they have done better than this to reboot the franchise? Poor poor poor writing.

terrible plot, what's JJ been thinking.

Man is clearly a moron, I hope ppl don't abandon star wars XI, (no mistake, it sound like star wars plot,m not star trek) this is not the way to indulge fans who by all counts will form majority of the audience of this movie. :rolleyes:

JJ wtrf were you thinking man, have you ever seen single episode of star trek or any of the star trek movies, have you done any research.

JJ you are disgrace to the human race. :rolleyes:
 
From what we now know, Kirk is a cadet when he sneaks onboard the Enterprise. Then, when Pike goes off-ship to deal with an emergency, Spock is placed in command and Pike makes Kirk the First Officer under Spock. This is despite the fact that Scotty, McCoy, Uhura, Sulu and a hundred other officers are onboard. An insubordinant and almost criminal cadet is promoted to First Officer ... and then, having been goaded by future Spock, Kirk provokes young Spock into losing his emotional cool, at which point he assumes command of the Enterprise, once again without hundreds of other officers objecting to this jump in the chain of command.

If this were some generic sci-fi movie shown on a Sunday afternoon on the Sci-Fi Channel, I could ignore that incredibly poorly thought out and illogical (yes, I'm opening up space for Spock jokes) plot and then make fun of it on here the next day ... but this is Star Trek! Forgetting that the characters and ship already have a well-defined history that's being rewritten, it's supposed to be, well, you know, good. And not totally illogical and unbelievable.

Yes, I'll still be first in line to see the movie, yes, I'm still a Star Trek fan, but come on, couldn't they have done better than this to reboot the franchise? Poor poor poor writing.

terrible plot, what's JJ been thinking.

Man is clearly a moron, I hope ppl don't abandon star wars XI, (no mistake, it sound like star wars plot,m not star trek) this is not the way to indulge fans who by all counts will form majority of the audience of this movie. :rolleyes:

JJ wtrf were you thinking man, have you ever seen single episode of star trek or any of the star trek movies, have you done any research.

JJ you are disgrace to the human race. :rolleyes:


I can't tell who's being sarcastic and who's earnest anymore.
 
Which if he was a duty bound Book Worm he would have never cheated on the Kobashi Maru cause that isn't a by the book solution.
Not at all...

The line from Gary Mitchell was that Kirk was "positively grim" and a "stack of books with legs" and that Mitchell steered Kirk towards that "little blond lab tech" who Kirk almost married (the line that led to the creation of Carol Marcus) in order to get him to lighten up a little bit.

It never said that Kirk was a "by the book" sort of guy... that's not the same as being "grim and too serious."

In my experience, the people who are too grim, too serious... they're the ones who are MOST likely to cheat when they feel threatened. They'll cheat, backstab, bully... anything... in order to avoid whatever they fear. And they can justify it all to themselves.

It's the person who learns that there are more important things in life who finds it easier to accept misfortune (even perceived misfortune... like not being able to pass a test which, unbeknownst to himself, he wasn't supposed to be able to pass anyway!)
It's time to forget the twisted canon of Star Trek so we can begin to tell exciting stories.
The two are totally unrelated ideas.

You can tell incredibly exciting stories in the unaltered, canonical Trek universe.

And you can just as easily tell abject CRAP stories while simultaneously flushing all canon.

If you find canon too restrictive... move into an as-yet-unexplored corner of the "Trek universe." There are infinite numbers of stories you can tell in our own real world, today... how many more should there be in an entire GALAXY, with "a thousand worlds and spreading out" to cover?
Plus since everyone knew he cheated at the Kobiashi Maru wouldn't he have been EXPELLED From Starfleet.
Nope. Remember, the Kobayashi Maru test was a "test of character," and there's no way to win. So, had he simply cheated... and remained defiant afterwards... sulking and being pouty... yeah, they'd have expelled him. If he'd failed and taken it personally but not done anything... but been sulky and whiney... that would have almost certainly precluded him from the "Command Track."

So, he cheated... something that is actually a DESIRABLE TRAIT for a military commander in a real-world situation. If the book says "do this" and you find another way to solve the problem, that's not bad, that's GOOD. It's called "outside of the box thinking" and as they said in TWOK, it got him a commendation for original thinking.

He still could have been cashiered out, though. The real issue is "how do you deal with the consequences of your choices." Had he whined and moaned and so forth... he'd have been out. But if he stood up, defended his actions, and made a compelling argument... that would be enough to move him to the front of the class.
Contradictions in the original source do not make for good canon. Period.
True, but that, at least, is no contradiction. This new film, however, may introduce new contradictions, that in that regard I think your point is entirely valid.

I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if this has been stated. But, I see this Gary Mitchell reference come up all the time as describing Kirk as a cadet. It does not. Mitchell is describing Kirk as he was as an instructor at the academy: "Watch out for LT. KIRK, IN HIS CLASS you either think or sink." I have never served in the Navy, but I do recall reading in Tom Clancy's book about the submarine service that junior officers often spend a period of time back at the academy as instructors before they are given a command posting. Someone with more knowledge than me on that subject might clear that up. But in any case, the "stack of books with legs" was a Lt., not a cadet.
 
^
^^ I agree with this...and I believe it has been brought up before (if not in tthis thread, then in others), but I think this is a good enough point to bring up again.
 
terrible plot, what's JJ been thinking.

Man is clearly a moron, I hope ppl don't abandon star wars XI, (no mistake, it sound like star wars plot,m not star trek) this is not the way to indulge fans who by all counts will form majority of the audience of this movie. :rolleyes:

JJ wtrf were you thinking man, have you ever seen single episode of star trek or any of the star trek movies, have you done any research.

JJ you are disgrace to the human race. :rolleyes:


I can't tell who's being sarcastic and who's earnest anymore.
Considering the avatar, I think he's being sarcastic.

-Shawn :borg:
 
Here's how I think about it.

Right now the amount of plot we actually know is the same as someone who is given ten random 'action' pages from a 400 page novel.

I don't think one is qualified to review the novel's plot based on that and a bunch of internet rumors.

So I'm holding off judgement.
 
Here's how I think about it.

Right now the amount of plot we actually know is the same as someone who is given ten random 'action' pages from a 400 page novel.

I don't think one is qualified to review the novel's plot based on that and a bunch of internet rumors.

So I'm holding off judgement.


WHAT??? SENSE??? In THIS discussion???

BLASPHEMY!!

:D
 
Here's how I think about it.

Right now the amount of plot we actually know is the same as someone who is given ten random 'action' pages from a 400 page novel.

I don't think one is qualified to review the novel's plot based on that and a bunch of internet rumors.

So I'm holding off judgement.

Too true. The speculation is fun, but it ends there. Critiquing speculation becomes like belly-button contemplation.
As others have said, we really don't know the plotline of this movie. Nada. Not even a one sentence synopsis of what's driving the action.
-- We do know Kirk's life has been screwed up (or at least a timeline has been created where it's different), and the others, not so much.
-- Old Spock intervenes at some point to coach Kirk to take command of the Enterprise, which Kirk acknowledges is messing around with history. So, both know they are changing the future (or creating yet another new timeline, who the fuck knows).
-- We have no idea what's motivating Nero or what's driving old Spock.
-- Vulcan may or may not get destroyed. We don't know.
-- We may be watching a new timeline that goes off merrily on its own, or not.
-- People have to get over the stylistic differeneces between TOS and this movie one way or the other. One can like them or not, but no producer was going to go back to the 1960s look, even if the intent of the movie was to be very faithful to what went on back then.

Is XI a new beginning (a new timeline) or the story of the beginning (the timeline we knew)? It seems some are prepared to like or hate the movie based on whether it's one or the other.
But either way, the movie will have to stand on its own. And, that's how I plan to view it, even if my preference would be that it somehow end up to be the story of the beginning of the lives and events we are all familiar with. Still, if it's a new beginning (timeline), the only real disappointing thing in the end will be if it's not good (a good beginning to the new franchise).
 
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