SPOILER ALERT -- Review Myriad Universes: Infinity's Prism

[Christopher]

There is something that nags at me in the back of my mind, though because it's a fictional device and it makes the stories a *lot* more interesting it's just something I thought about, rather than which detracted from my enjoyment of the stories in any way, and that's that in 'A Less Perfect Union' and 'Seeds of Dissent' the characters we know probably wouldn't exist because the timeline divergence is so far in the past.

I have that same problem with the Mirror Universe, but it's an accepted conceit of the Trekverse. I actually offer a bit of a technobabble fudge for it in my Places of Exile annotations.

As for Seeds of Dissent, I kind of assumed that the characters only approximately resembled the characters we know, due to their somewhat different genetic heritage.

I personally, particularly liked 'Places of Exile.' Something Voyager could not do, a flaw partially forced upon it by its premise (a ship always on the move and never returning to one specific point) was follow up on a lot of the stories and establish much history with specific races (except for the Borg) as they would never return to that place. I also particularly liked following up on the Caretaker refugees, and the inclusion of a Vorta was a nice change-up for a Voyager story. This story had an emotional impact that I felt the show was a little too tentative with, and it shows that Voyager could have been capable of a lot more, no matter how much I enjoyed it week to week.

Thanks!

 

[Omega Particle]

I have that same problem with the Mirror Universe, but it's an accepted conceit of the Trekverse. I actually offer a bit of a technobabble fudge for it in my Places of Exile annotations.

As for Seeds of Dissent, I kind of assumed that the characters only approximately resembled the characters we know, due to their somewhat different genetic heritage.

To a layman like me, that explanation works as well as any!!

It's most certainly an incrediby fun conceit to see our favourite characters behave differently. I think the stories would have a little less punch if they were all about original characters, because much of the point of these stories to my mind is to explore alternate lives for our favourite characters rather than just alternate universes.

 

[William Leisner]

I finished 'Infinity's Prism' this morning and thoroughly enjoyed it. I find alternate history stories incredibly intriguing, if only to see how the events that we see depicted on screen could have turned out differently and the subsequent effects that would have had.

There is something that nags at me in the back of my mind, though because it's a fictional device and it makes the stories a *lot* more interesting it's just something I thought about, rather than which detracted from my enjoyment of the stories in any way, and that's that in 'A Less Perfect Union' and 'Seeds of Dissent' the characters we know probably wouldn't exist because the timeline divergence is so far in the past.

The conception of a specific individual is a product of a trillion trillion specific choices being made in a certain way. Change one of those decisions and the more the choices that are made the further the decisions will diverge from the original strand. The changes that occur around you increase exponentially from the point of divergence. For example (and see one of the recent Doctor Who episodes for a good indication) turn left and you'll be faced with a certain chain of decisions, turn right and the set of decisions and the effect they have on the world around you diverge very, very quickly.

A fair point, and I did touch on it a bit in ALPU...

Spoiler: A Less Perfect Union

... with the absence of San Francisco native Hikaru Sulu, and the presence of Takako, the descendant of a SF Blast survivor.

But as Christopher said above, it's an accepted conceit in Trek, as well as in much of the alt-hist genre. And while some decisions may create some divergances, not every one will, nor will they be all-encompassing. If, for example, Nixon been elected in 1960, the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights Movement would have played out at least somewhat differently... but my parents would almost certainly still have gotten married, and still have had sex that day in '66.

To say that Richard Bashir and his wife would even exist to meet and produce a child that looked like the Julian Bashir we know is a crazy improbability.

The book's cover notwithstanding, there's no real reason to believe Princeps Bashir looks like the Julian we all know and love.

 

[Omega Particle]

A fair point, and I did touch on it a bit in ALPU...

Spoiler: A Less Perfect Union

... with the absence of San Francisco native Hikaru Sulu, and the presence of Takako, the descendant of a SF Blast survivor.

I had wondered about that when I read it. I meant to do a quick search through Memory Alpha to see if the character you referenced in the spolier tag was just a relative I hadn't heard about, but that's pretty cool.

And great story by the way. I really liked the easy feeling of interaction between ENT and TOS. It was nice to see that it's possible for characters from both series to comfortably co-exist, considering how there's a fairly vocal group of TOS fans quite aggressive about how ENT and TOS shouldn't exist together.

 

[Christopher]

And while some decisions may create some divergances, not every one will, nor will they be all-encompassing. If, for example, Nixon been elected in 1960, the Vietnam War and the Civil Rights Movement would have played out at least somewhat differently... but my parents would almost certainly still have gotten married, and still have had sex that day in '66.

Yeah, but if the same sex act played out at the same moment in two different timelines, there's no guarantee the same sperm cell, or any sperm cell, would've fertilized the egg. The butterfly effect comes into play -- just having Richard Nixon cross the street in California rather than sitting in the Oval Office at a given moment in time would affect the movements of the molecules around him, and cause weather patterns to turn out differently, and the different global heat flow could just make the bedroom a little warmer and jostle the sperm into a different configuration. Or it could cause a storm that made one of the lovers late for their dinner date so that they never had sex at all.

So the only way you can have the same people being born in different timelines is by assuming there's some sort of causal resonance across timelines leading to the same people being born, the same names and ship designs being decided on, etc. Which is pretty arbitrary sometimes, but necssary as a fictional conceit.

Speaking of ship designs, one thing I would've liked to see in A Less Perfect Union was a description of the Earth Starfleet vessels being different, perhaps less advanced in some ways, than their main-timeline counterparts. After all, I assume that not all 23rd-century Starfleet technology comes exclusively from Earth designs. So in my mind, I imagined Pike's Enterprise to be sort of a hybrid between TOS and ENT technologies.

 

[EnochRoot]

Finished "Places of Exile" this morning. Very enjoyable story about my least favorite Trek TV show.

The world building that went on in forming the Delta Coalition was a more interesting goal than simply getting back to Earth. I submit it is also more true to the spirit of Star Trek. "Places of Exile" spent more time telling me what it meant to actually be in the Delta Quadrant than most of the TV series. The epilogue to "Places of Exile" also filled me with a sense that Janeway had triumphed in a more important way than the final scene of "Endgame".

I was quite happy to discover the role episodes like "Prototype" and "Distant Origin" played when the crew was forced to stay in one place and confront the long term ramifications such situations could have. I liked that peace with the Groundskeepers came from 2 sides seeking understanding rather than blowing each other up real good.

I would have liked to see Mr. Bennett explore Vidiian (although it was touched upon), Ocampan, Talaxian, and Kazon society and how it would be effected by the Coalition. I recognize this would have been quite impossible given the page count, but since they were the TV series first attempts at giving us recurring alien cultures I wonder if Mr. Bennett could have got me more interested in them than the TV series did.

 

[Christopher]

Finished "Places of Exile" this morning. Very enjoyable story about my least favorite Trek TV show.

Thank you!

The world building that went on in forming the Delta Coalition was a more interesting goal than simply getting back to Earth. I submit it is also more true to the spirit of Star Trek.

That's what I felt too, and I believe it's what Michael Piller and Jeri Taylor intended. Not to build a new Federation, that is, but to make a show that was about exploring the unknown rather than trying to run from it. They told us from the beginning that the characters would soon get over their longing for home and embrace the wonder. But I always feared that the premise would make it difficult to live up to that, and as it turned out, it did. "Scorpion" was where that line was finally crossed -- where the characters had a clear-cut choice between two ways of defining their purpose, and resolved it once and for all in favor of the quest for home. That's why I chose to go back to that point and explore the other path.

"Places of Exile" spent more time telling me what it meant to actually be in the Delta Quadrant than most of the TV series.

ST spends a lot of time showing us people exploring the frontier, but DS9 aside, it rarely explores what it means to live on a frontier. Dig beneath the romance, and a frontier is a place where people have to live in a foreign environment without their normal support structures and institutions, and must therefore make adaptations and compromises to survive. That's a dynamic I've been interested in exploring ever since I took a history course on frontiers in college. (The frontiers weren't in college, the course was.)

The epilogue to "Places of Exile" also filled me with a sense that Janeway had triumphed in a more important way than the final scene of "Endgame".

Well, it helps to have denouement.

I liked that peace with the Groundskeepers came from 2 sides seeking understanding rather than blowing each other up real good.

And did you notice that it also explains why we didn't see Species 8472 again after the peace talks in "In the Flesh?" Because the outcome affects their interaction with all timelines in our universe, of course. But I still left the door open for them to return someday.

I would have liked to see Mr. Bennett explore Vidiian (although it was touched upon), Ocampan, Talaxian, and Kazon society and how it would be effected by the Coalition. I recognize this would have been quite impossible given the page count, but since they were the TV series first attempts at giving us recurring alien cultures I wonder if Mr. Bennett could have got me more interested in them than the TV series did.

Well, first off, the Coalition sends someone to explain to the Kazon that ice, which is found in millions of bodies on the outskirts of any planetary system, is actually water. Once the Kazon realize that water isn't a scarce commodity after all, they rediscover the art of washing their hair, with help from shampoo provided by the Vidiians' top-notch chemical engineers. Once their hair looks presentable and their scalps no longer itch, the Kazon's nasty disposition evaporates and they stop persecuting the Ocampa. The Talaxians make a fortune supplying stylists to the Kazon, allowing them to gain enough interstellar clout to bring the Haakonians to the table and negotiate their world's freedom. So everybody's happy.

Next, the Coalition sends envoys to explain about deuterium to Rick Berman and Brannon Braga...

 

[Yassim]

There is something that nags at me in the back of my mind, though because it's a fictional device and it makes the stories a *lot* more interesting it's just something I thought about, rather than which detracted from my enjoyment of the stories in any way, and that's that in 'A Less Perfect Union' and 'Seeds of Dissent' the characters we know probably wouldn't exist because the timeline divergence is so far in the past.

I haven't read the book, but...

as far as the show goes, I've always assumed that there are an infinite number of universes, so in *one* of them, the universe is just like ours, only evil. All the same individuals, born at exactly the right time to form the same crews we know and love... but with goatees.

In fact, maybe the similarities are related to the accessibility of that universe from our own. The physical similarities are a result of some kind of dimensional proximity.

 

[Christopher]

It's a common misconception that the Many-worlds theory means there's an infinite number of universes. It isn't even true that every possible arbitrary permutation must happen. Even with a large number of divergent timelines, the same laws of causality apply to all of them. Every event in every existing timeline is the result of a chain of causes leading up to it, with each event in that chain occurring for a reason rather than completely at random, and that places limits on what can actually happen, as can limiting physical conditions. So you can't just make up some random, absurd situation and say "this happens in some timeline because everything does." That's just not how it works.

 

[DarthPipes]

Just finished "Places of Exile" a few minutes ago. I was never really a fan of Voyager, despite watching it early in the show's run and watching the finale. So I was surprised with how much I really enjoyed this story. Like "A Less Perfect Union" I think it did a better job with the show's premise (surviving and living in the Delta Quadrent) then the actual show did. What's built here by the Voyager crew is incredibly and more satisfying compelling and would have made for an interesting Star Trek show.

The divergent timelines got a little confusing but I still found it to be very intriguing. Well done, Mr. Bennett.

 

[Christopher]

Thanks!

 

[Leandar]

I've come to a realization. I hate you authors. You make these stories SO GOOD and I know I won't likely get any more from these various universes, especially the Khanate. Thanks! Thanks a lot!

On a more serious note, I thoroughly enjoyed these stories, they were all WAY beyond my expectations, as I wasn't looking for these to be all that good. Congratulations to all the authors and I can't wait for book two!

 

[William Leisner]

Sorry... I'll try to make Losing the Peace suck more...

 

[DarthPipes]

One thing I was thinking about...convincing the Coalition that Earth once to join is a tough enough job. But I imagine that convincing the people of Earth themselves to join would be even more so. Is the majority of people on United Earth are hardcord isolationists, I can imagine they would erupt when they learned that their president was secretly trying to get them to join the Coalition.

 

[KRAD]

Sorry... I'll try to make Losing the Peace suck more...

I can't imagine you'll find that too difficult...............

 

[Leandar]

Sorry... I'll try to make Losing the Peace suck more...

Nah, don't worry about it. This is a kind of pissed off I don't mind having.

 

[Dancing Doctor]

Christopher, I have a question, based off of the annotations you provided.

Spoiler: Places of Exile annotation

In the annotations you provided for Chapter 2, you said "Megon is loosely based on a certain prominent American politician of Irish descent who condemns immigrants in the same terms that were used in the past to condemn Irish-Americans, apparently without recognizing the irony (or hypocrisy, as the case may be)."] I thought that you had done a nice commentary on the hypocrisy and irony of politicians criticizing immigrants, especially when many of the scenes you wrote dealing with such issues could, if you replace the names and descriptions of locations and species, easily reflect verbal ripostes between Senators and Congresspeople.

But who is the "prominent American politician of Irish descent" you mention? I've been wracking my brain trying to figure that out.

 

[Mistral]

I just finished Mr. Leisner's and Mr. Bennett's stories-I'll read the last story before I read the posts here. I just wanted to comment while it was fresh. I really liked the first tale-T'pol was interesting and I liked the evolution of Kirk. Great tale. The second story was really good but wandered into some "godhood" territory. It reminded me of the Laumer story "The Multiplex(?) Man" where the character walks like a god at the end due to fortuitous circumstances. HOWEVER, despite the Janeway/Chakotay romance(God, I hate bumping into that in fan fic I read!) I enjoyed the story overall. It was a very rich tapestry and I had fun reading it. It felt good to read some "official" Trek tales, especially because they addressed alternative takes on known episodes. Oh, and I just loved Leisner's incorporation of original dialogue in his story. That was a very cleverly done bit of work and must have taken serious thought to make it flow naturally. Well done, gents!

 

[William Leisner]

Oh, and I just loved Leisner's incorporation of original [series] dialogue in his story. That was a very cleverly done bit of work and must have taken serious thought to make it flow naturally. Well done, gents!

That was where I was having the most fun writing, and where I was thinking, the readers will either love this or hate this. Glad it worked for you .

 

[Christopher]

Christopher, I have a question, based off of the annotations you provided.

Spoiler: Places of Exile annotation

In the annotations you provided for Chapter 2, you said "Megon is loosely based on a certain prominent American politician of Irish descent who condemns immigrants in the same terms that were used in the past to condemn Irish-Americans, apparently without recognizing the irony (or hypocrisy, as the case may be)."] I thought that you had done a nice commentary on the hypocrisy and irony of politicians criticizing immigrants, especially when many of the scenes you wrote dealing with such issues could, if you replace the names and descriptions of locations and species, easily reflect verbal ripostes between Senators and Congresspeople.

But who is the "prominent American politician of Irish descent" you mention? I've been wracking my brain trying to figure that out.

Spoiler: Answer to the question

Pat Buchanan has been known to use such arguments in his anti-immigration rhetoric.

The second story was really good but wandered into some "godhood" territory. It reminded me of the Laumer story "The Multiplex(?) Man" where the character walks like a god at the end due to fortuitous circumstances. HOWEVER, despite the Janeway/Chakotay romance(God, I hate bumping into that in fan fic I read!) I enjoyed the story overall.

I assume you're talking about Kes in terms of the "godhood" stuff? If so, then in both cases, I'm simply building on what the early seasons of VGR established. My goal here was to go back to the original, Piller/Taylor era of the series and build on the groundwork that they laid but their successors moved away from. Kes was always suggested to be a character with great untapped power, and indeed we saw her evolve to a near-"godlike" state eventually, but only as a way of writing her out of the series, so that her potential in that regard was never explored in depth.

As for Janeway and Chakotay, I don't know or particularly care what goes on in fanfiction. All I know is that Jeri Taylor clearly established a potential romantic relationship between them, one that they were unable to pursue due to their professional obligations. (See "Resolutions" in particular.) And one that was reasonably interesting in the early seasons when Janeway actually had a gentler, more human side and Chakotay actually had a personality of any kind. And that's the era of VGR that I was building on. Given how the characters were defined then, it followed that if Janeway and Chakotay ended up not serving together on the same ship, they would be free to pursue what they felt for each other.

And part of it was just that I wanted to take the characters in different directions than they went on the series. On the show, Harry was stuck as an ensign, so here he rose swiftly through the ranks. On the show, the Doctor became increasingly human, so here he embraced his potential as an AI. On the show, B'Elanna became more domesticated and balanced, so here, she went down a very dark path. On the show, Kes was stuck in a limited role, so here she was free to flourish. On the show, Seven's Borg persona dominated, so here she was Annika Hansen. And so, since on the show, the Janeway-Chakotay relationship fizzled out and was never resolved, here it went in the other direction. (And Neelix got the girl that he lost in the show, although I didn't originally plan on doing that.)