Spock will die in the next movie

[F. King Daniel]

I'm just glad they've dumped that retarded "sex only once every seven years" crap.
"Driven to mate once every seven years, free to have sex as often as you want inbetween" (the original intent of the "Amok Time" writer) sounds a lot more plausable/believable to me.

Or are we supposed to believe Spock and Uhura just hold hands and kiss ?

 

[FarStrider]

. . . it is just a very vocal minority who don't want anything to change from the holy writ of TOS that are screaming the loudest about Spock and Uhura. . .

Or might it be a few people think that having a "The O.C." style hot-and-heavy romance is totally contradictory to the concept of a Vulcan's emotional control? I wouldn't have any problem with Spock/Uhura if he just showed a little more restraint. Like, you know, a Vulcan.

oh, I'm sorry, you seem to want him to be a machine. . . Spock was going on a SUICIDE mission. . . with a 95% chance of death. . . he's young, he's HALF-HUMAN. . . he just lost his planet, he just lost his mother right in front of his eyes, he has just been emotionally compromised by the annoying James T. Kirk in front of everyone and had to give up the captaincy of the ship and his father has just given him permission to be who he truly is for the first time in his life. . . given these facts, Spock was VERY restrained. . . This is not TOS Spock. . .you have to acknowledge that different things have shaped him. . .but even going back to TOS, Spock was way more emotional in the first season, and ST09 takes place even before that. . . so, you are just picking nits. . . but, ultimately, you don't have to like his characterization or the movie, that's your prerogative. . . however, I think you should go back and watch TOS without the rose-coloured glasses, Spock was more emotional than you seem to think. . .

~FS

 

[RookieBatman]

. . . it is just a very vocal minority who don't want anything to change from the holy writ of TOS that are screaming the loudest about Spock and Uhura. . .

Or might it be a few people think that having a "The O.C." style hot-and-heavy romance is totally contradictory to the concept of a Vulcan's emotional control? I wouldn't have any problem with Spock/Uhura if he just showed a little more restraint. Like, you know, a Vulcan.

oh, I'm sorry, you seem to want him to be a machine. . . Spock was going on a SUICIDE mission. . . with a 95% chance of death. . . he's young, he's HALF-HUMAN. . . he just lost his planet, he just lost his mother right in front of his eyes, he has just been emotionally compromised by the annoying James T. Kirk in front of everyone and had to give up the captaincy of the ship and his father has just given him permission to be who he truly is for the first time in his life. . . given these facts, Spock was VERY restrained. . . This is not TOS Spock. . .you have to acknowledge that different things have shaped him. . .but even going back to TOS, Spock was way more emotional in the first season, and ST09 takes place even before that. . . so, you are just picking nits. . . but, ultimately, you don't have to like his characterization or the movie, that's your prerogative. . . however, I think you should go back and watch TOS without the rose-coloured glasses, Spock was more emotional than you seem to think. . .

~FS

We're not talking about general emotionalism; I do think that Spock was portrayed as way too emotional (and I've talked to people who liked the movie who also felt that way, so it has nothing to do with anti-movie bias), but the point I was making was about the way Vulcans conduct romance. That fundamental element of Vulcan culture wouldn't have been changed by the "different things that shaped" Spock.
If you want to go back and watch TOS, check out Journey to Babel, or The Enterprise Incident. Both of these feature Vulcans in amorous relationships that don't go snogging any chance they get. Not even when they're alone, never mind in front of people.

Ah, heck, I just stopped caring. If nobody else had a problem with it, I'm not gonna bother trying to convince the whole world that my interpretation of how Vulcans act is the right one. It's just not that important to me. (But the point was, that element of it was what I didn't like about Spock/Uhura, not the relationship itself.)

 

[FarStrider]

Well what can she be? Prior to the Spock thing she just received communications and was a minor character with little to do, now she has been pushed to the fore using this romance no one saw coming just to be more appealing to certain demographics.

She's the main female character in the ensemble, the only female of the main seven characters. . . She can be someone who doesn't have 3 lines in the movie (Including 'hailing frequencies open,') sits with her back to the camera and disappears for 2/3s of the film's runtime. . . she can go on away missions and interpret things now, since she has been upgraded to a Xenolinguist. . . maybe her character won't be used as a bad joke who doesn't know Klingon, despite the fact that she's the communications officer of the flagship for years, and the Klingons have been the Federation's main enemy for that entire time. . . maybe Star Trek can evolve past the "Triumvirate" and become a true ensemble. . . oh. . . and maybe she can have the intelligent, nerdy logical, hot boyfriend while she's doing all of this!!! . . . wow it's not the 60s anymore, and she's not going to the back of the bus. . . women's lib. . . oooh aaaah. . .

Without Uhura, Kirk wouldn't have been able to convince Pike or Spock that he was more than a attention-seeking trouble maker. . .without her backing him up about the message she translated, the Enterprise would have been destroyed when it came out of warp. . . She's the character that has to ultimately validate Kirk's rise to power (Notice the three times she called him 'Captain')

ST09 was a two hour movie meant to introduce the 7 main charecters, a villain, the side characters and the alternate timeline. . . Kirk and Spock are the main characters, they got the most development. . . Uhura and McCoy got developed in relation to their connections to Kirk and Spock, and Scotty, Sulu and Chekhov were developed just enough to make them recognizable. . . the writers couldn't spell everything out about everyone. . . the next movie will give them a chance to expand on the characters since they won't have to introduce them to the audience again. . .

~FS

 

[FarStrider]

We're not talking about general emotionalism; I do think that Spock was portrayed as way too emotional (and I've talked to people who liked the movie who also felt that way, so it has nothing to do with anti-movie bias), but the point I was making was about the way Vulcans conduct romance. That fundamental element of Vulcan culture wouldn't have been changed by the "different things that shaped" Spock.
If you want to go back and watch TOS, check out Journey to Babel, or The Enterprise Incident. Both of these feature Vulcans in amorous relationships that don't go snogging any chance they get. Not even when they're alone, never mind in front of people.

Ah, heck, I just stopped caring. If nobody else had a problem with it, I'm not gonna bother trying to convince the whole world that my interpretation of how Vulcans act is the right one. It's just not that important to me. (But the point was, that element of it was what I didn't like about Spock/Uhura, not the relationship itself.)

The thing about Vulcans is that they act differently with every actor. . . and every writer. . . and realistically, as a sentient species, not every individual is going to act in the same way. . .

In "Journey to Babel," we don't actually see Amanda and Sarek truly alone, they are on a diplomatic mission. . . of course they are going to be restrained. . .as a matter of fact, we never saw ANY canonical Vulcan relationship without the public filter. . . we never saw how they would act in their own home away from prying eyes. . . there are always at least two people in a relationship, and in the case of an inter-species relationship like Sarek and Amanda's there had to be some compromise for it to work between them. . . Amanda Grayson is a human woman. . . do you honestly think that the only physical affection she received from Sarek was finger touches? Humans are tactile creatures. . .Amanda is not going to live among an alien species, light years from her home planet and everything she knows and only receive the ozh'esta finger kisses. . . realistically she would go crazy. . . Sarek loved her, and he obviously had to make some compromises to keep her. . .

~FS

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm just glad they've dumped that retarded "sex only once every seven years" crap.

According to Dorothy "DC" Fontana, who oversaw the Vulcan arcs during TOS, there never was an intention that Vulcans could only have sex once every seven years, merely that the urge to take a mate became overwhelming at this time.

You can't blame her for "fanon" assuming incorrectly.

 

[Pauln6]

oh, I'm sorry, you seem to want him to be a machine. . . Spock was going on a SUICIDE mission. . . with a 95% chance of death. . . he's young, he's HALF-HUMAN. . . he just lost his planet, he just lost his mother right in front of his eyes, he has just been emotionally compromised by the annoying James T. Kirk in front of everyone and had to give up the captaincy of the ship and his father has just given him permission to be who he truly is for the first time in his life. . . given these facts, Spock was VERY restrained. . . This is not TOS Spock. . .you have to acknowledge that different things have shaped him. . .but even going back to TOS, Spock was way more emotional in the first season, and ST09 takes place even before that. . . so, you are just picking nits. . . but, ultimately, you don't have to like his characterization or the movie, that's your prerogative. . . however, I think you should go back and watch TOS without the rose-coloured glasses, Spock was more emotional than you seem to think.

Vulcans are intensely emotional. This version of Spock has engaged in a relationship with a human and hasn't ended it (yet) like in TOS. His planet was just destroyed and his mother was killed. If he was 'excessively' emotional then it was appropriate - in this film at least.

The scene on the pad was still inappropriate though. Uhura is an officer and should have been the one showing the restraint. And if it was a suicide mission that was because, well duh, only two people were beamed across instead of a dozen - the ship does have several transporter rooms and each pad handles 6 people. It was crazy not to send across security back-up or computer expert back-up or someone who can read Romulan. In other words it was a mission that Uhura was qualified to go on (she undestands Romulan better than Spock) but no, as in TOS we see the boys taking on things that really should be Uhura's job. That's progress!

 

[Devon]

We're not talking about general emotionalism; I do think that Spock was portrayed as way too emotional (and I've talked to people who liked the movie who also felt that way, so it has nothing to do with anti-movie bias),

And what does those people have to measure against? This Spock is about the same age as "The Cage/WNMHGB" Spock, who smiled with glee and nearly laughed in those episodes.

 

[RookieBatman]

. . .as a matter of fact, we never saw ANY canonical Vulcan relationship without the public filter. . . we never saw how they would act in their own home away from prying eyes. . .

What about The Enterprise Incident?

 

[FarStrider]

What about The Enterprise Incident?

OK. . . I'll grant you "The Enterprise Incident," BUT. . . what we see in that episode is the mental foreplay of 2 people who don't really know one another and are not in any kind of established relationship. . .plus, Spock is playing a part, so it's not fair to use that as the basis of how every Vulcan acts in a relationship. . . in ST09, Spock and Uhura are in a relationship. . . we don't know the depth of it, but we do know that Spock wanted his last message to go to her (and not his father), so, even if it is not sexual at this time, it is deep. . .

The scene on the pad was still inappropriate though. Uhura is an officer and should have been the one showing the restraint.

OK, this -- this is a double standard that just pisses me off. . . Spock isn't an officer? The way I remember it, he is actually a Commander, right? Riiiiight. . . why aren't you saying anything about his professionalism? Because if you watch the scene closely (and I know it is hard, because Spock and Uhura are at the edge of the screen, you will see that Spock pulls Uhura onto the pad and is the one who initiates that kiss, not the other way around. . . Uhura is not forcing herself on him, and Spock is not a little boy who needs to be protected from her icky girl cooties. . . Real world example: Have you ever watched soldiers going off to war? They are allowed to kiss their significant others before leaving on a mission that they might not come back from, and no one questions their "professionalism". . .

And if it was a suicide mission that was because, well duh, only two people were beamed across instead of a dozen - the ship does have several transporter rooms and each pad handles 6 people. It was crazy not to send across security back-up or computer expert back-up or someone who can read Romulan. In other words it was a mission that Uhura was qualified to go on (she undestands Romulan better than Spock) but no, as in TOS we see the boys taking on things that really should be Uhura's job. That's progress!

And this is just looking for things to nitpick. . . the movie was about the beginning of Kirk and Spock's friendship. . . not Kirk and Spock and the 10 redshirts that get killed on the Narada. . .
1. Tactically speaking, the fewer people you beam into hostile territory the fewer you have to beam out. . . Scotty, expert transporter operator that he is, was surprised that he was able to beam 3 people from 2 locations onto 1 pad. . . also, it's a sneak attack. . . you sort of lose the element of surprise when you have a platoon of red shirts surrounding you. . .they beamed across to what was supposed to be an empty space, and if it had been, they would have been able to get Pike and disable the drill without being seen. . .

2. Spock knows enough Romulan to understand the thoughts of a stunned Romulan, and he is also a computer expert (ie. Kobayashi Maru), so, they don't need Uhura for those things, and since they are not planning to negotiate with Nero, (which would be her specialty) in what world would it make any sense to bring her along on what is essentially a suicide mission?

Of course I want to see Uhura kicking ass at her job in the next movie. . . but you know what. . . in ST09, even with what some feel was a limited role, she still was more important to the plot than she was in all of the 6 original films combined. . .

~FS

 

[Pauln6]

The scene on the pad was still inappropriate though. Uhura is an officer and should have been the one showing the restraint.

OK, this -- this is a double standard that just pisses me off. . . Spock isn't an officer? The way I remember it, he is actually a Commander, right? Riiiiight. . . why aren't you saying anything about his professionalism? Because if you watch the scene closely (and I know it is hard, because Spock and Uhura are at the edge of the screen, you will see that Spock pulls Uhura onto the pad and is the one who initiates that kiss, not the other way around. . . Uhura is not forcing herself on him, and Spock is not a little boy who needs to be protected from her icky girl cooties. . . Real world example: Have you ever watched soldiers going off to war? They are allowed to kiss their significant others before leaving on a mission that they might not come back from, and no one questions their "professionalism". . .

Well yes, but the context of this thread is that Spock is emotionally compromised so the fact that he is acting unprofessionally is a given. It's the 23rd century, maybe officers on duty are allowed to kiss each other on duty but they were also on a clock in this scene and they wasted precious seconds with Uhura standing on the pad.

And if it was a suicide mission that was because, well duh, only two people were beamed across instead of a dozen - the ship does have several transporter rooms and each pad handles 6 people. It was crazy not to send across security back-up or computer expert back-up or someone who can read Romulan. In other words it was a mission that Uhura was qualified to go on (she undestands Romulan better than Spock) but no, as in TOS we see the boys taking on things that really should be Uhura's job. That's progress!

And this is just looking for things to nitpick. . . the movie was about the beginning of Kirk and Spock's friendship. . . not Kirk and Spock and the 10 redshirts that get killed on the Narada. . .
1. Tactically speaking, the fewer people you beam into hostile territory the fewer you have to beam out. . . Scotty, expert transporter operator that he is, was surprised that he was able to beam 3 people from 2 locations onto 1 pad. . . also, it's a sneak attack. . . you sort of lose the element of surprise when you have a platoon of red shirts surrounding you. . .they beamed across to what was supposed to be an empty space, and if it had been, they would have been able to get Pike and disable the drill without being seen. . .

2. Spock knows enough Romulan to understand the thoughts of a stunned Romulan, and he is also a computer expert (ie. Kobayashi Maru), so, they don't need Uhura for those things, and since they are not planning to negotiate with Nero, (which would be her specialty) in what world would it make any sense to bring her along on what is essentially a suicide mission?

I understand why only Kirk and Spock beamed across story-wise and yup it's true that they often did this in TOS too but it's still as daft now as it was then. Was it in the Ultimate Computer that Kirk was left off a landing party by M5 and we were supposed to react like it was the worst thing in the world - lol.

No way will you convince me that it would be tactically unwise to send more people. Difficulty transporting people is bogus because they have more than one transporter room and 400+ crew to operate them - Scotty does not have to be the only one on watch; in fact it makes more sense for different rooms to be monitoring different crew in different locations but again, story-wise this doesn't happen.

The Narada is HUGE. Sending across 6 people makes them more likely to be discovered than 2? Nonsense! Plus I never said Spock wasn't qualified to go, merely that if he was killed the mission failed. If two qualified people go, it doubles their chances. Similarly I can think of two occasions where Kirk had to be saved - once by Spock and once by Pike. Obviously those incidenets were put in for dramatic effect and would have happened even if more crew had been sent (the Dungeonmaster ups his game based on the number of players after all) but they highlight the vulnerability of sending only two people who then have to split up to complete the mission! Crazy. At the very least, two teams of two should have been sent so they could watch each other's backs. Would Spock and Uhura on the same team have ruined the Kirk/Spock bonding? Same for Kirk and the security chief (lets kill some more redshirts!).

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: QUINTO'S SPOCK SHOULD BE CONSTANTLY SHOUTING!!!

I'm just glad they've dumped that retarded "sex only once every seven years" crap.

According to Dorothy "DC" Fontana, who oversaw the Vulcan arcs during TOS, there never was an intention that Vulcans could only have sex once every seven years, merely that the urge to take a mate became overwhelming at this time.

You can't blame her for "fanon" assuming incorrectly.

But I can and do blame the Enterprise writers for perpetuating the myth and saying flat-out (during "Fusion", I believe it was) they only do it once every seven years.

Plus T'Pol only banged Trip once, leaving it vague as to whether it was the seven-year itch, her drug-addled mind, or a clear-headed choice.

Enterprise's frequent stupidity pissed me off royally at times, like no other television show (and I'm a fan of Enterprise!)

 

[DevilEyes]

Re: QUINTO'S SPOCK SHOULD BE CONSTANTLY SHOUTING!!!

I'm just glad they've dumped that retarded "sex only once every seven years" crap.

According to Dorothy "DC" Fontana, who oversaw the Vulcan arcs during TOS, there never was an intention that Vulcans could only have sex once every seven years, merely that the urge to take a mate became overwhelming at this time.

You can't blame her for "fanon" assuming incorrectly.

But I can and do blame the Enterprise writers for perpetuating the myth and saying flat-out (during "Fusion", I believe it was) they only do it once every seven years.

Plus T'Pol only banged Trip once, leaving it vague as to whether it was the seven-year itch, her drug-addled mind, or a clear-headed choice.

It couldn't have been the former, since she had just gone through Pon Farr a few months/not over a year before (in the awful season 2 episode "Bounty").

 

[RookieBatman]

What about The Enterprise Incident?

OK. . . I'll grant you "The Enterprise Incident," BUT. . . what we see in that episode is the mental foreplay of 2 people who don't really know one another and are not in any kind of established relationship. . .plus, Spock is playing a part, so it's not fair to use that as the basis of how every Vulcan acts in a relationship. . .

Spock was playing a part, but it was a part of a mission whose success was contingent on her being fully convinced that he was into her. For the sake of the mission, I could see him pushing a little past what would be normal for Vulcans.

Also, just as a real-world tidbit, the third-seasons producers had originally taken the scene and made it a lot more physical, with full-on kissing and everything (without having seen it, since it wasn't ever filmed, I would have to say it sounds a lot like what Spock and Uhura did on the transporter). Both Leonard Nimoy and D.C. Fontana very strongly opposed this, saying that Spock or any Vulcan wouldn't be acting that way, even for the sake of the mission. So, that's not canon, and even if it was, you could still say it's just an alternate timeline, but I think that says a lot about how two people who were highly integral in the creation of Vulcan behaviors felt on the subject.

 

[FarStrider]

Spock was playing a part, but it was a part of a mission whose success was contingent on her being fully convinced that he was into her. For the sake of the mission, I could see him pushing a little past what would be normal for Vulcans.

You know what. . . thinking about it, I'm NOT going to grant you "The Enterprise Incident". . . here's why: We see Spock and the Commander having a drink, and he convinces her to go "slip into something more comfortable" while he uses that time to contact the Enterprise. She comes back, they start their foreplay, and are interrupted by subcommander Tal, who has intercepted Spock's signal. . . there was NO TIME for them to really do anything. . . we as an audience have no idea what they would have done if they had not been interrupted.

Also, just as a real-world tidbit, the third-seasons producers had originally taken the scene and made it a lot more physical, with full-on kissing and everything (without having seen it, since it wasn't ever filmed, I would have to say it sounds a lot like what Spock and Uhura did on the transporter). Both Leonard Nimoy and D.C. Fontana very strongly opposed this, saying that Spock or any Vulcan wouldn't be acting that way, even for the sake of the mission. So, that's not canon, and even if it was, you could still say it's just an alternate timeline, but I think that says a lot about how two people who were highly integral in the creation of Vulcan behaviors felt on the subject.

Is there a link to these interviews? Although, even if you could link to them, it doesn't matter, because interviews are NOT canon, (even those from the writers); however if you want to go there, I can point to several interviews where Leonard Nimoy says that Orci and Kurtzman and Abrams absolutely understood Spock's character (which is the reason he agreed to be in the movie), and that he was 'jealous' of the Spock/Uhura relationship in the movie. . .since he knows the character better than anyone, I guess we have to take his word who the character is. . .


~FS

 

[FarStrider]

Well yes, but the context of this thread is that Spock is emotionally compromised so the fact that he is acting unprofessionally is a given. It's the 23rd century, maybe officers on duty are allowed to kiss each other on duty but they were also on a clock in this scene and they wasted precious seconds with Uhura standing on the pad.

You just moved the goalposts here. . . Spock is fit enough not only to help plan the mission, but to go actually go on this mission of the absolute most importance to the Federation at the moment; but you are contending that he is so emotionally compromised that someone else (Uhura) should control his agency? You can't have it both ways. . . either he is in command of his faculties or he's compromised and shouldn't be allowed on the mission. The movie makes the case that he knows what he is doing.

I understand why only Kirk and Spock beamed across story-wise and yup it's true that they often did this in TOS too but it's still as daft now as it was then. Was it in the Ultimate Computer that Kirk was left off a landing party by M5 and we were supposed to react like it was the worst thing in the world - lol.

No way will you convince me that it would be tactically unwise to send more people. Difficulty transporting people is bogus because they have more than one transporter room and 400+ crew to operate them - Scotty does not have to be the only one on watch; in fact it makes more sense for different rooms to be monitoring different crew in different locations but again, story-wise this doesn't happen.

The Narada is HUGE. Sending across 6 people makes them more likely to be discovered than 2? Nonsense! Plus I never said Spock wasn't qualified to go, merely that if he was killed the mission failed. If two qualified people go, it doubles their chances. Similarly I can think of two occasions where Kirk had to be saved - once by Spock and once by Pike. Obviously those incidenets were put in for dramatic effect and would have happened even if more crew had been sent (the Dungeonmaster ups his game based on the number of players after all) but they highlight the vulnerability of sending only two people who then have to split up to complete the mission! Crazy. At the very least, two teams of two should have been sent so they could watch each other's backs. Would Spock and Uhura on the same team have ruined the Kirk/Spock bonding? Same for Kirk and the security chief (lets kill some more redshirts!).

You are assuming that they have more than one transporter. . . that is never said or shown in the movie. . .so is not a valid argument.

I know I'm not going to convince you that what Kirk and Spock did is strategically sound. . . (in real life, it isn't). . . However, there is this thing called "willing suspension of disbelief," and all Star Trek shows and movies rely upon it. . I mean, not only are 6 people able to steal and pilot a starship, but they blow it up in the process, yet they are all still allowed to be in command positions afterward? A renown scientist has no idea how her own experiment actually works. . . her son uses an illegal substance without her knowledge. . . 'Star'fleet (the organization whose motto says something about "exploring strange new worlds") loses an entire planet. . . one where a most dangerous adversary has been marooned. . . a starship's sensors can pick up microscopic life, but not the humans standing 5 feet away? I know I can't tell you when to suspend your disbelief, but I'm positive that you have probably done it for other Star Trek movies. . .

And like I said before, there was no need to send Uhura on that mission, that wouldn't have been the wisest use of her talents. . .


~FS

 

[Pauln6]

You just moved the goalposts here. . . Spock is fit enough not only to help plan the mission, but to go actually go on this mission of the absolute most importance to the Federation at the moment; but you are contending that he is so emotionally compromised that someone else (Uhura) should control his agency? You can't have it both ways. . . either he is in command of his faculties or he's compromised and shouldn't be allowed on the mission. The movie makes the case that he knows what he is doing.

Lol - not moving the goalposts; just trying to place my comments in context. Humans are often emotional but it doesn't mean they can't do their jobs, nor does it mean that emotional outbursts aren't unprofessional. I love McCoy but dislike Trip Tucker because it seemed to me that McCoy's knew when it was appropriate to read someone the riot act whereas Trip just let his temper speak for him.

So yes, if Spock can be said to have been acting emotional, I think it is understandable in the circumstances. Pulling Uhura onto the pad was still unprofessional and emotional. Her staying in the embrace for as long as she did was unprofessional and emotional. The elevator scene was note perfect for me. This scene was mush. The same message could have been got across far more subtley and highlighted Kirk's observational skills at the same time.

You are assuming that they have more than one transporter. . . that is never said or shown in the movie. . .so is not a valid argument.

The NuPrise is bigger than the old and that had at least five transporter rooms (there needs to be one in the secondary hull for when the saucer section separates so we must have at least two). Even shuttles (like Scotty's) have transporters now it seems so yes, I am making a logical assumption that the Enterprise has more than one transporter.

I know I'm not going to convince you that what Kirk and Spock did is strategically sound. . . (in real life, it isn't). . . However, there is this thing called "willing suspension of disbelief," and all Star Trek shows and movies rely upon it.

And like I said before, there was no need to send Uhura on that mission, that wouldn't have been the wisest use of her talents. . .

Heh yeah Trek has some real logic howlers. I do get a bit frustrated when the writers could have made small tweaks to plug some of the gaps though.

There was no need for Kirk to go on half the missions he went on in TOS either but the writers wanted to use the character. I want the writers to use Uhura more and sending her to the ship as back-up for Spock would have been more exciting and unusual than putting her on the bridge just because she speaks Romulan (the bridge co-ordinates the entire ship- it's the grunts in the room downstairs that monitor all incoming traffic and translate what seems important - thus in putting her on the bridge it makes it less likely she can use her skill efficiently and in fact she makes no useful contribution while she's up there except to leave her post to speak with Spock i.e. the real out of plot reason for putting her on the bridge).

Too many Holywood writers favour melodrama over common sense. I'd like a little of both please!

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: QUINTO'S SPOCK SHOULD BE CONSTANTLY SHOUTING!!!

and saying flat-out (during "Fusion", I believe it was) they only do it once every seven years.

The Vulcans of ENT also claimed that time travel was "impossible" and that mind melding was an extremely rare ability. Spock told us of a "Vulcan death grip".

But we know, from Spock and Valeris, that Vulcans - who supposedly cannot lie - can and do. And call it "an exaggeration", or even "a choice", when they do so.

So you're gonna believe 'em when they say they only have sex once every seven years?

 

[RookieBatman]

Spock was playing a part, but it was a part of a mission whose success was contingent on her being fully convinced that he was into her. For the sake of the mission, I could see him pushing a little past what would be normal for Vulcans.

You know what. . . thinking about it, I'm NOT going to grant you "The Enterprise Incident". . . here's why: We see Spock and the Commander having a drink, and he convinces her to go "slip into something more comfortable" while he uses that time to contact the Enterprise. She comes back, they start their foreplay, and are interrupted by subcommander Tal, who has intercepted Spock's signal. . . there was NO TIME for them to really do anything. . . we as an audience have no idea what they would have done if they had not been interrupted.

I guess that reasoning just depends on what you consider "foreplay." Not that I'm an expert on the subject, but I always thought decent foreplay involved some kissing, etc.

Is there a link to these interviews?

I didn't see them online, they were in books. I can't remember for sure, but I think it was I Am Not Spock, or maybe The World of Star Trek. I can try to dig them up for you...

Although, even if you could link to them, it doesn't matter,

Okay, good, that saves me the trouble of looking for them.

because interviews are NOT canon, (even those from the writers);

So, that's not canon, and even if it was, you could still say it's just an alternate timeline, but I think that says a lot about how two people who were highly integral in the creation of Vulcan behaviors felt on the subject.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

however if you want to go there, I can point to several interviews where Leonard Nimoy says that Orci and Kurtzman and Abrams absolutely understood Spock's character (which is the reason he agreed to be in the movie), and that he was 'jealous' of the Spock/Uhura relationship in the movie. . .since he knows the character better than anyone, I guess we have to take his word who the character is. . .

We don't really have to. I hesitate to say this, because I'm afraid you'll take it the wrong way. I am NOT accusing Leonard Nimoy of lying or purposefully obscuring the truth. However, we do have to consider that at the time Nimoy said these things, he had an obligation, as a part of the movie's cast, to say how great it was. When was the last time you saw an actor saying how terrible a movie was that they were in, shortly after it was released? Sure, maybe years later, but that's different. While it's fresh, they have a responsibility to help sell the movie by saying it's great even if they know it's crap. Remember the "we're all very pleased" speech?
Now, I'm NOT saying that Nimoy was lying, or that he thought it was crap, or that he was just saying that to sell tickets. But we do have to allow for the possibility that he may have been pouring it on just a little bit thick, since that's what actors are expected to do for for movies they're in. Whereas, when he and Fontana made those comments about The Enterprise Incident, the show was already long off the air, so they had no need to be anything but candid about it. Of course, it's possible that Nimoy's opinion of how Vulcans should act in those situations may have just changed, but mine hasn't. I didn't see anything in the movie to indicate that Abrams understood Spock's character. Of course, I didn't like Quinto, either, so maybe Abrams wrote it great, and I just didn't like how Quinto played it. But it's all subjective anyway.

The crux of the issue is this: I felt that, in my purely subjective opinion, that Spock acted way out of character throughout the movie, and especially in actions like that. That's a purely subjective judgment, since as you pointed out, there is a dearth of evidence on the subject in canon materials. But if you're watching a certain movie because you appreciate the main characters, and you felt that those characters weren't depicted in a way that you felt was true to them, then wouldn't that diminish your enjoyment of the movie? That's all I'm saying. If you thought it was in character, good for you! I wish I could see it that way, but I don't. I'm not trying to prove that it was an inaccurate depiction of how Vulcans act, because that's impossible. I'm simply trying to show that my point of view has some basis and wasn't just a vindictive knee-jerk reaction borne of a predisposition against the movie.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Would have loved to see the TOS movies go on without Spock. Also would have loved to see the Excelsior being Kirk's new ship.

You know they did some of that in the DC Trek comics that were out around that time.