Spock as a mystic in Season 2

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Spock was the opposite of a mystic in TOS.

He may have benefited from some of the inward contemplation of his personal mind-body spirituality* that some mystics practice.

Look at Tuvoc; he used meditation and inward contemplation as an exploration of "self" in a way that helped him control his emotions and, frankly, to try to be the best Vulcan he could be. That type of contemplation of the self through meditation and reflection to become intimately familiar with one's self, including emotions, is something I suspect (going by what we have seen in various Star Treks) is common among Vulcans.

*And I use "spirituality" in the non-religious way. A mind-body spirituality that has no affiliation with a supreme deity, but rather is about fine tuning the the conscious and subconscious self.

 

[Tuvix5675]

Going with your assertion that DSC season 2 Spock seems he may be a mystic, maybe it will be that mystic phase that has a direct bearing on his transformation from The Cage Spock to TOS Spock.

So DSC Spock may not yet be like TOS Spock, but he may be quite different than The Cage Spock. It may be a spiritual journey that helps him control his emotions to become the TOS Spock, and we may be getting a glimpse of that spiritual journey in DSC season 2.

I'm not really a fan of how character developments have been handled thus far in this series (Burnham, Stamets, Saru, Tilly, Lorca, Sarek, Harry Mudd). Fortunately, Gretchen Berg and Aaron Harberts (executive producers) are gone as show runners (as is Les Moonves as head of CBS), though I'm not really too clear on how they influenced the outcome of specific characters, they can generally be held responsible for anything in the series. Kirsten Beyer is still there and I didn't like how Saru was written in "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" or "Choose Your Pain."

 

[guyute03]

Not worried. Hoping they evolve him into the character we know & love.

Let's see where this goes.

 

[Mudd]

Not worried. Hoping they evolve him into the character we know & love.

Let's see where this goes.

You mean, maybe they've hired real writers?

 

[DaveyNY]

Heh...

You mean, maybe they've hired real writers?

One would assume that anybody hired to work on a TV show probably has a SWG card saying that they ARE a REAL Writer...

Now whether or not they are GOOD writers, time will tell.

 

[Mudd]

Heh...


One would assume that anybody hired to work on a TV show probably has a SWG card...

What's a "SWG?"

 

[fireproof78]

It’s a half-ass explanation and as King Bob said, diminishes that character in the minds of the audience. Some things should just be better left to the imagination.

So, it stays in my imagination. That's the thing. I can strike the balance between the two, existing simultaneously in appreciating the story and yet not (necessarily) connecting it to a future self. It kind of filters through my head canon, as it were, and connects throughout the material.

For the PT, Anakin doesn't really fit without a heavy amount of filters, such as using ancillary material like the novels. Kelvin Spock is greatly improved for me because I can utilize his Prime timeline self to see just how big of an impact different people had.

Time will tell with Spock. I certainly don't see the issue with this journey (thus far) and if it doesn't fit than it gets ignored.

Spock was the opposite of a mystic in TOS.

And?

 

[DaveyNY]

What's a "SWG?"

I got it wrong...
I thought it was the "Screen Writers Guild" ... I should have typed "WGoA" ...
The Writers Guild of America.
My bad.

 

[JKM]

I think one of the key reasons Spock attempted to undergo Kholinar was because he was becoming too human by the end of TOS. Kirk was constantly taunting him over it too. "You're becoming more human all the time." And McCoy was always quick to point out the "Gotcha!" moments any chance he got.

If no other episodes ever existed, I'd still call Spock a bit of a hypocrite in WNMHGB just by looking at information from the episode itself. I blame that on the writers not having a handle on the character yet. But, in retrospect, it also looks like Spock not having a handle on whoever he wants to be either. He wants to be one thing but he doesn't always quite measure up to it.

To me that is Spock's story and always has been. He's always at war within himself and if memory serves me, he says so once to Kirk in the Episode where Kirk is split into his good half and Evil Half. He wants to be Vulcan, but the fact is he is half human and all that comes with it. That means viewers get to see his constant struggle, which makes for a really interesting character and someone viewers relate with. We kinda see Spock in the movies after Vger finally begin to accept who he is and I think that was what Kirk was trying to get him to do all along.

Also in response to first quote, I don't see what Kirk teases him about as "Taunting" him. I think he's trying to get Spock to accept his human half and is not teasing him maliciously. Sometimes it almost reads like flirting to me, which would fit Kirk's character, I think. He probably flirts with everybody. Not to mention Spock's responses to him show its obviously friendly banter. 'It's terrible having bad blood like that.' -Kirk

I actually thought it was really interesting as to how Discovery Spock responded to Pike's similar type comment of 'Spock are you smiling?' and Spock answers 'Yes.' In TOS he would've answered Kirk 'There is no need to be insulting, Captain.'

 

[Lord Garth]

I actually thought it was really interesting as to how Discovery Spock responded to Pike's similar type comment of 'Spock are you smiling?' and Spock answers 'Yes.' In TOS he would've answered Kirk 'There is no need to be insulting, Captain.'

Good catch!

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I actually thought it was really interesting as to how Discovery Spock responded to Pike's similar type comment of 'Spock are you smiling?' and Spock answers 'Yes.' In TOS he would've answered Kirk 'There is no need to be insulting, Captain.'

And to add my two cents...
Although it's a short clip without context, the way Spock said "Yes" sounded as if he was quite pleased with himself -- sort of the way Dr. Phlox sounded delightedly please with himself when said just about anything.

 

[Tuskin38]

Before Gretchen Berg and Aaron Harberts were kicked off the show, they were saying Spock wouldn't be in the season, but after they left, suddenly we have Spock.
Coincidence?

I know Frakes said Spock would be in a flashback in his first episode, but that's probably Spock as a kid.

 

[USS Triumphant]

And to add my two cents...
Although it's a short clip without context, the way Spock said "Yes" sounded as if he was quite pleased with himself -- sort of the way Dr. Phlox sounded delightedly please with himself when said just about anything.

I've kinda suspected that Spock might be under the influence of something in that scene, similar to the spores in "This Side of Paradise". Pike doesn't sound like he's teasing or just being matter of fact - he seems a bit concerned.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I've kinda suspected that Spock might be under the influence of something in that scene, similar to the spores in "This Side of Paradise". Pike doesn't sound like he's teasing or just being matter of fact - he seems a bit concerned.

Spock winds up under the influence so often, he should get his license revoked.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I've kinda suspected that Spock might be under the influence of something in that scene, similar to the spores in "This Side of Paradise". Pike doesn't sound like he's teasing or just being matter of fact - he seems a bit concerned.

Like I said, we have no context, so all we can do is speculate, but I don't sense the real concern on Pike that you sense. I think it will just a be a cute little exchange between the two of them that is meant to show us the rapport and familiarity that may exist between Pike and Spock.

It also might be meant to show that a young Spock was probably a little more emotional than the he was by, say, the 2nd or 3rd episode of TOS's production run.

I mean, Spock was pretty damn amused by the quivering/humming blue plant in The Cage without being under the influence of anything, so maybe the writers are playing a bit off of that early penchant of a younger Spock being amused by things that he finds worthy of his amusement.

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[Nerys Myk]

Like I said, we have no context, so all we can do is speculate, but I don't sense the real concern on Pike that you sense. I think it will just a be a cute little exchange between the two of them that is meant to show us the rapport and familiarity that may exist between Pike and Spock.

It also might be meant to show that a young Spock was probably a little more emotional than the he was by, say, the 2nd or 3rd episode of TOS's production run.

I mean, Spock was pretty damn amused by the quivering blue plant in The Cage without being under the influence of anything, so maybe the writers are playing a bit off of that early penchant of a younger Spock being amused by things that he finds worthy of his amusement.

Like guys going gaga over Mudd's brides?

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

Like guys going gaga over Mudd's brides?

Or his sarcastic quip about Earth Emotions is WNMHGB.

In that scene, Spock knows damn well what "irritating" means. He just wants to be all smug about it (with a sly little smile) so he can get a dig in on Kirk and human emotions:

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Again, the scene above was the first time we meet Kirk (and Spock, for that matter, since "The Cage" went unaired when WNMHGB came out). The writers were probably going for establishing for the audience the familiarity between Kirk and Spock. The playful banter tells us immediately that they are friends.

I think the same establishment of a familiarity might be the reason for the DSC "smiling" scene between Pike and Spock.

 

[eschaton]

So, we do know in general the reason why Vulcans suppress their emotions is because of how strongly they feel them as opposed to humans correct? Basically, a Vulcan can either have strict mental discipline or else risk falling into paranoia and bloodlust.

The thing is, Spock is only half Vulcan. Presuming he's really roughly halfway between humans and Vulcans, that means one might expect that it's less dangerous to be emotionally uncontrolled for him than an average Vulcan - albeit much more dangerous than for a Human. Hence he can walk the line - and even stumble over it from time to time - without really risking his sanity. He stays under control emotionally more due to his own internalized identity as being "fully Vulcan" than any real need to do so.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So, we do know in general the reason why Vulcans suppress their emotions is because of how strongly they feel them as opposed to humans correct? Basically, a Vulcan can either have strict mental discipline or else risk falling into paranoia and bloodlust.

The thing is, Spock is only half Vulcan. Presuming he's really roughly halfway between humans and Vulcans, that means one might expect that it's less dangerous to be emotionally uncontrolled for him than an average Vulcan - albeit much more dangerous than for a Human. Hence he can walk the line - and even stumble over it from time to time - without really risking his sanity. He stays under control emotionally more due to his own internalized identity as being "fully Vulcan" than any real need to do so.

If you believe Vulcan propaganda, the human "blood" makes Spock more prone to emotional "excesses".

 

[fireproof78]

So, we do know in general the reason why Vulcans suppress their emotions is because of how strongly they feel them as opposed to humans correct? Basically, a Vulcan can either have strict mental discipline or else risk falling into paranoia and bloodlust.

The thing is, Spock is only half Vulcan. Presuming he's really roughly halfway between humans and Vulcans, that means one might expect that it's less dangerous to be emotionally uncontrolled for him than an average Vulcan - albeit much more dangerous than for a Human. Hence he can walk the line - and even stumble over it from time to time - without really risking his sanity. He stays under control emotionally more due to his own internalized identity as being "fully Vulcan" than any real need to do so.

I'm not sure how one could draw that conclusion, but ok. I just figured that Spock's mental discipline allowed him to manage his otherwise erratic nature due to being a hybrid.