Spock as a mystic in Season 2

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Tuvix5675, Dec 24, 2018.

  1. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He may have benefited from some of the inward contemplation of his personal mind-body spirituality* that some mystics practice.

    Look at Tuvoc; he used meditation and inward contemplation as an exploration of "self" in a way that helped him control his emotions and, frankly, to try to be the best Vulcan he could be. That type of contemplation of the self through meditation and reflection to become intimately familiar with one's self, including emotions, is something I suspect (going by what we have seen in various Star Treks) is common among Vulcans.

    *And I use "spirituality" in the non-religious way. A mind-body spirituality that has no affiliation with a supreme deity, but rather is about fine tuning the the conscious and subconscious self.
     
  2. Tuvix5675

    Tuvix5675 Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm not really a fan of how character developments have been handled thus far in this series (Burnham, Stamets, Saru, Tilly, Lorca, Sarek, Harry Mudd). Fortunately, Gretchen Berg and Aaron Harberts (executive producers) are gone as show runners (as is Les Moonves as head of CBS), though I'm not really too clear on how they influenced the outcome of specific characters, they can generally be held responsible for anything in the series. Kirsten Beyer is still there and I didn't like how Saru was written in "Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum" or "Choose Your Pain."
     
  3. guyute03

    guyute03 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not worried. Hoping they evolve him into the character we know & love.

    Let's see where this goes.
     
  4. Serveaux

    Serveaux Tasteless and unnecessary Premium Member

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    You mean, maybe they've hired real writers?
     
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  5. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Heh...
    One would assume that anybody hired to work on a TV show probably has a SWG card saying that they ARE a REAL Writer...

    Now whether or not they are GOOD writers, time will tell.
    :techman:
     
  6. Serveaux

    Serveaux Tasteless and unnecessary Premium Member

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    What's a "SWG?"
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    So, it stays in my imagination. That's the thing. I can strike the balance between the two, existing simultaneously in appreciating the story and yet not (necessarily) connecting it to a future self. It kind of filters through my head canon, as it were, and connects throughout the material.

    For the PT, Anakin doesn't really fit without a heavy amount of filters, such as using ancillary material like the novels. Kelvin Spock is greatly improved for me because I can utilize his Prime timeline self to see just how big of an impact different people had.

    Time will tell with Spock. I certainly don't see the issue with this journey (thus far) and if it doesn't fit than it gets ignored.

    And?
     
  8. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I got it wrong...
    I thought it was the "Screen Writers Guild" ... I should have typed "WGoA" ...
    The Writers Guild of America.
    My bad. :techman:
     
  9. JKM

    JKM Commander Red Shirt

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    To me that is Spock's story and always has been. He's always at war within himself and if memory serves me, he says so once to Kirk in the Episode where Kirk is split into his good half and Evil Half. He wants to be Vulcan, but the fact is he is half human and all that comes with it. That means viewers get to see his constant struggle, which makes for a really interesting character and someone viewers relate with. We kinda see Spock in the movies after Vger finally begin to accept who he is and I think that was what Kirk was trying to get him to do all along.

    Also in response to first quote, I don't see what Kirk teases him about as "Taunting" him. I think he's trying to get Spock to accept his human half and is not teasing him maliciously. Sometimes it almost reads like flirting to me, which would fit Kirk's character, I think. He probably flirts with everybody. Not to mention Spock's responses to him show its obviously friendly banter. 'It's terrible having bad blood like that.' -Kirk

    I actually thought it was really interesting as to how Discovery Spock responded to Pike's similar type comment of 'Spock are you smiling?' and Spock answers 'Yes.' In TOS he would've answered Kirk 'There is no need to be insulting, Captain.'
     
  10. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Good catch!
     
  11. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And to add my two cents...
    Although it's a short clip without context, the way Spock said "Yes" sounded as if he was quite pleased with himself -- sort of the way Dr. Phlox sounded delightedly please with himself when said just about anything.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
  12. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Before Gretchen Berg and Aaron Harberts were kicked off the show, they were saying Spock wouldn't be in the season, but after they left, suddenly we have Spock.
    Coincidence?

    I know Frakes said Spock would be in a flashback in his first episode, but that's probably Spock as a kid.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
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  13. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've kinda suspected that Spock might be under the influence of something in that scene, similar to the spores in "This Side of Paradise". Pike doesn't sound like he's teasing or just being matter of fact - he seems a bit concerned.
     
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  14. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Tomorrow Never Knows Premium Member

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    Spock winds up under the influence so often, he should get his license revoked.
     
  15. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Like I said, we have no context, so all we can do is speculate, but I don't sense the real concern on Pike that you sense. I think it will just a be a cute little exchange between the two of them that is meant to show us the rapport and familiarity that may exist between Pike and Spock.

    It also might be meant to show that a young Spock was probably a little more emotional than the he was by, say, the 2nd or 3rd episode of TOS's production run.

    I mean, Spock was pretty damn amused by the quivering/humming blue plant in The Cage without being under the influence of anything, so maybe the writers are playing a bit off of that early penchant of a younger Spock being amused by things that he finds worthy of his amusement.

     
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  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Tomorrow Never Knows Premium Member

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    Like guys going gaga over Mudd's brides?;)
     
  17. Jackson_Roykirk

    Jackson_Roykirk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Or his sarcastic quip about Earth Emotions is WNMHGB.

    In that scene, Spock knows damn well what "irritating" means. He just wants to be all smug about it (with a sly little smile) so he can get a dig in on Kirk and human emotions:


    Again, the scene above was the first time we meet Kirk (and Spock, for that matter, since "The Cage" went unaired when WNMHGB came out). The writers were probably going for establishing for the audience the familiarity between Kirk and Spock. The playful banter tells us immediately that they are friends.

    I think the same establishment of a familiarity might be the reason for the DSC "smiling" scene between Pike and Spock.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
  18. eschaton

    eschaton Commodore Commodore

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    So, we do know in general the reason why Vulcans suppress their emotions is because of how strongly they feel them as opposed to humans correct? Basically, a Vulcan can either have strict mental discipline or else risk falling into paranoia and bloodlust.

    The thing is, Spock is only half Vulcan. Presuming he's really roughly halfway between humans and Vulcans, that means one might expect that it's less dangerous to be emotionally uncontrolled for him than an average Vulcan - albeit much more dangerous than for a Human. Hence he can walk the line - and even stumble over it from time to time - without really risking his sanity. He stays under control emotionally more due to his own internalized identity as being "fully Vulcan" than any real need to do so.
     
  19. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Tomorrow Never Knows Premium Member

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    If you believe Vulcan propaganda, the human "blood" makes Spock more prone to emotional "excesses".
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure how one could draw that conclusion, but ok. I just figured that Spock's mental discipline allowed him to manage his otherwise erratic nature due to being a hybrid.