Wait, how many days has the movie been out?I think I see a rage thread coming. It feels good not to really care. *Kicks back and waits for others to argue.*
hehe. I was waiting to see when you would show up in this thread
Spock and Uhura [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Professor Moriarty
- Start date
hehe. I was waiting to see when you would show up in this thread
Yes I know, sorry I should have been clearer.
Kirk's needs are inferior. I don't care about his need to conquest. He has the galaxy for that. And plenty of Orions that haven't blown up.
I can see Spock still being a cold fish though, especially as as defense mechanism and Kirk being all warm and empathic with Uhura, stepping into the breach as it were.. and then I will hate him.
all very interesting. I agree with the jist of what you wrote. however, I do not believe Spock is a cold fish. he can blow hot AND cold, but he's not cold. not Spock Prime, not NuSpock.
agreed in entirety about Kirk.
PS. uh oh. sorry about the spam, mods!
Oh Sorry again Indranee, I don't seem to be very clear these days, perhaps the excitement has gone to my head..
Yes I agree Spock is not a cold fish, either Spock. But where else will he go emotionally when things are out of control but to retreat into that kind of maddening logic that struggles to deny emotion? Think of Sarek telling Spock that marrying Amanda was the logical thing to do because he was an Ambassador to Earth.. because he had to be strong for Spock and show him the Vulcan way when he was being teased, give him a Vulcan answer. Only much later when Amanda was dead did he tell Spock the truth, that he married her because he loved her.
Spock's whole world is gone and at varying stages he WILL need to retreat to Vulcan logic and to deny his feelings. During those times he will very likely not be emotionally available to Uhura. Plenty of humans are like this in times of stress, how much more the Vulcans? So I can see Kirk taking advantage of this, being the warm empathic one always available to contrast Spock's downtime. I would imagine there would be a competitive streak there which would make him want to take what Spock had, just to prove to himself he could. He's clearly less mature in this film than in TOS because of his youth and not growing up with a father.
Yes I agree Spock is not a cold fish, either Spock. But where else will he go emotionally when things are out of control but to retreat into that kind of maddening logic that struggles to deny emotion? Think of Sarek telling Spock that marrying Amanda was the logical thing to do because he was an Ambassador to Earth.. because he had to be strong for Spock and show him the Vulcan way when he was being teased, give him a Vulcan answer. Only much later when Amanda was dead did he tell Spock the truth, that he married her because he loved her.
Spock's whole world is gone and at varying stages he WILL need to retreat to Vulcan logic and to deny his feelings. During those times he will very likely not be emotionally available to Uhura. Plenty of humans are like this in times of stress, how much more the Vulcans? So I can see Kirk taking advantage of this, being the warm empathic one always available to contrast Spock's downtime. I would imagine there would be a competitive streak there which would make him want to take what Spock had, just to prove to himself he could. He's clearly less mature in this film than in TOS because of his youth and not growing up with a father.
Do we have reason to believe he never finished it in this timeline? I wondered that when he asked his mother about it, I don't think it was clear.
And.. yeah. World of heartache for sure.
Yep. They're not getting married and honeymooning on Risa any time soon.
This is off topic but; Please Greg, tell us you've been approached about new work for nuTrek or any other Trek! I'd also love to see you tackle Voyager in the DQ. *sorry - overcome by excitement over your presence . . . *
I think it was great. A Kirk/Uhura relationship would have been lame and predictable. No relationship at all wouldn't have pleased hollywood executives. I like the way it was subtly introduced in the assignment scene. At that time, I had no idea what was going on. I too thought Uhura was his prized pupil or something and there was the whole Kirk and Uhura flirt going on. But it was a nice way to foreshadow the whole thing. It played out well into the story.
I like the way it was subtly introduced in the assignment scene. At that time, I had no idea what was going on. I too thought Uhura was his prized pupil or something and there was the whole Kirk and Uhura flirt going on. But it was a nice way to foreshadow the whole thing. It played out well into the story.I haven't waded through all the responses, so someone else may have already brought this up but....
I really enjoyed the movie but this is one of the things that really gripes at me. I think it's pretty clear from the "reassignment" scene and from later events that Spock and Uhura have an ongoing relationship. That means that they were lovers when she was a cadet and he was an instructor -- her instructor.
I don't care what you say about timelines and advances in human relationships or anything else. Such an affair, particularly when it involves favoritism, is UNETHICAL in any century in any universe. And Spock, as we all know, is nothing if not ethical.
To me, this was a poorly thought out attempt to "spice up" the new movie. New Spock has plenty of moments in which he demonstrates that he is less emotionally controlled than in the old series. The Uhura/Spock affair is just gratuitous.
I call bullshit on the whole thing.
I went into this movie absolutely unspoiled, about everything. (To the extent that I really thought that was Jada Pinkett-Smith when Uhura first appeared on screen.) I thought that Spock would give one of his patented, This is inappropriate responses when Uhura hugged him in the turbolift, and then my heart broke when he hugged her back. I was sold. I had caught the assignment reference earlier, but hadn't put the pieces together. The transporter goodbye didn't bug me at all because (1) it was worth seeing Kirk's expression, (2) it was worth finally getting confirmation of Uhura's first name, and (3) it was a classic "Please come back to me" scene that the hero gets when he's off on a probably suicide mission.
It works in this Trekverse because Sarek did not disown Spock when Spock joined Starfleet, as he did in TOS (Journey to Babel), and did not require Amanda to make the choice between her son and her husband. Spock, therefore, did not become ULTRA!Vulcan. Clearly, this Sarek was much more supportive of Spock's human characteristics from the beginning. Given Sarek's support and Amanda's nurture, this Spock seems to exist on a much more even keel, emotionally. He has acceptance of the positive emotions (love, friendship), and good control over the destructive ones (it take a fair bit to provoke him).
This is a very well-thought-out character and the relationship is consistent with it.
For all we know, Sarek and Amanda may have decided not to betrothe Spock and T'Pring, knowing it would probably be a bad idea.
It works in this Trekverse because Sarek did not disown Spock when Spock joined Starfleet, as he did in TOS (Journey to Babel), and did not require Amanda to make the choice between her son and her husband. Spock, therefore, did not become ULTRA!Vulcan. Clearly, this Sarek was much more supportive of Spock's human characteristics from the beginning. Given Sarek's support and Amanda's nurture, this Spock seems to exist on a much more even keel, emotionally. He has acceptance of the positive emotions (love, friendship), and good control over the destructive ones (it take a fair bit to provoke him).
This is a very well-thought-out character and the relationship is consistent with it.
For all we know, Sarek and Amanda may have decided not to betrothe Spock and T'Pring, knowing it would probably be a bad idea.
I know how drama works, thanks. I've got a degree in theatre and worked in The Biz for well over 25 years. Feel free to disagree with me but you're going to have to offer a better argument than "you don't know what you're talking about."
My argument is that the writers have taken a character who has always stood for the ethical, right decision and subverted that character in a very basic way. This isn't "dramatic" -- there is just as much, if not more, drama in a person standing for a particular code regardless of circumstance. This is a cheap, easy, poorly thought out choice and I didn't like it.
But, as I admitted in my first post, it's a quibble of sorts. On the whole, I was very pleased with the movie, am looking forward to seeing it again (and again) and looking forward even more to seeing where the new production team takes the franchise.
I haven't waded through all the responses, so someone else may have already brought this up but....
I really enjoyed the movie but this is one of the things that really gripes at me. I think it's pretty clear from the "reassignment" scene and from later events that Spock and Uhura have an ongoing relationship. That means that they were lovers when she was a cadet and he was an instructor -- her instructor.
I don't care what you say about timelines and advances in human relationships or anything else. Such an affair, particularly when it involves favoritism, is UNETHICAL in any century in any universe. And Spock, as we all know, is nothing if not ethical.
To me, this was a poorly thought out attempt to "spice up" the new movie. New Spock has plenty of moments in which he demonstrates that he is less emotionally controlled than in the old series. The Uhura/Spock affair is just gratuitous.
I call bullshit on the whole thing.
It is unethical, if their relationship started while she was his student. If, however, it started after she moved on and was no longer his student, it may not be unethical. I know many professors who married former students, but their relationships started only after the teacher/student relationship ended.
Another possibility is that they were both students in the academy before he became an instructor (he may have been in a class ahead of her), and by then, the relationship had already begun. That would not necessarily be unethical.
Thanks for the enthusiasm!
Nothing definite to report, I'm afraid. I'm talking to Pocket about a new TREK project, but I have two other books to write first. (TERMINATOR and CSI.)
Someday soon, though! The new movie has me fired up to get back to the 24th Century!
You got a point here. I this movie we never got a sense that Spock was a logical being. Because in almost no part of the movie he act more logical than most human. From his childhood scene to the Uhura assignment scene to the end. Somehow this have deluted the scene where he break down emotionally and violently when Kirk insult him about his mother.
I didn't have a problem with the emotion he showed. The character is still young; and don't forget, in early TOS he was CONSTANTLY SHOUTING.
Full Vulcans do sometimes show less than complete emotionlessness. Spock in TOS was the perfect example of "no zealot like a convert." Or as been famously noted: "More Vulcan than Vulcan."
Full Vulcans do sometimes show less than complete emotionlessness. Spock in TOS was the perfect example of "no zealot like a convert." Or as been famously noted: "More Vulcan than Vulcan."
My point is not about TOS since this movie is in a different timeline (in real life its a reimagination). Even if its pretty clear in TOS that he was overcompensating.
I didn't have a problem with Spock in the movie. Its just that as a dramatic point watching Spock break down emotionally didn't have much impact since he was almost the more emotional character on the whole movie.
Dramatically, I think it somehow defeat the purpose of having a character from a logical planet. But that just a little nitpick since I liked Spock portrayal by Sylar.
I think he was the most interesting character on the movie, but more as a human than as a Vulcan.Similar threads
