Spoilers Spider-Man: Homecoming-- Grading and Discussion

^The filmmakers have said that they consciously tried to avoid Spidey stuff that had been done before, and they tried to do things that we haven't seen in a Spidey film before. (Within reason, 'natch.)

All things considered, I'm pretty impressed that they did manage to do that AND made a great Spidey film, and even with all the deviations, it rarely feels "un-Spidey-like", at least in my opinion.

 

I wonder if there's a deleted scene on the Blu-Ray/DVD release where, right after we see "Eight Years Later," Stephen Strange is just playing with the Eye of Agamotto and snickering.

 

Looking into things, I found this from Twitter user Spy-D (@DonEsQue) (sorry for the large image):


The only flaw I see with this is Iron Man 3 taking place 3 years after Avengers. I thought it was pretty clear it took place at most a year after Avengers.

 

Thanks--I think that that makes a lot of sense. At what point does Dr. Strange end?

 

The big flaw in that timeline is that Homecoming unequivocally establishes that its events take place 8 years after the Battle of New York (The Avengers), which is a 'time stamp' that can't be moved... which is why I'm convinced that the intent was to deliberately reconfigure the timeline around Homecoming.

If we assume that Homecoming takes place in 2016, The Avengers has to take place in 2008, which throws a whole lot of monkey wrenches into the proceedings, so I think it's safe to assume that we're looking at a timeframe of October 2017 for the events of Homecoming, which places the events of Avengers in 2009 and retroactively puts the remainder of Phase 1 in 2008, and overrides Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s dating of 2012 for the events of Avengers.

 

So, they're basically saying it was a year (Iron Man, Hulk, Thor all appeared in 2008/2009 and Cap re-awoke in 2008) - and the Chtari Invasion happened in 2009 - even though the film was released in 2012. What's the big deal here. Marvel timeline continuity has never been one to one/day to day even in the actual comics.

 

Let's not pretend they're way out in left field. "MJ" is a very familiar name to Spider-man fans. It's what he calls his 40+ year girlfriend/wife. You don't drop those initials unless you're trying to trigger.

That's like some un-named woman appearing through out a Superman movie, having her saying her name is Lonis Leane and then at the end she says to him "See ya later, Smallville" and expecting people not to think it's somehow Lois.

I'd bet good money that she was Mary Jane for sure, but they got cold feet when people had their racist backlash over it so they changed her name in that throwaway line.

 

The Superman analogy isn't a good one, seeing as how many of Superman's supporting cast have the L.L. initials: Lana Lang, Lois Lane, Lex Luthor (a stretch since, I guess technically he's Alexander, but let's not split hairs), Lena Luthor, Lionel Luthor, Lori Lemaris, Lara Lor-Van (Superman's Mother's Maiden last name), and so on.

Plus, unless I missed it, Michelle/MJ didn't say "Tiger" or "You've hit the jackpot," so the "See ya, later, Smallville" bit doesn't fit, again, unless I missed something.

 

I doesn't really matter what year the films take place in, 2009 or 2012, it's the time gone by in between films that doesn't work.
I just watched Civil War again last night (which is only a few months before Homecoming,) Ross says the Avengers have been around for 4 years (eg. 2012-16, check), they've been looking for Bucky for 2 years (eg. 2014-16, check.) Iron Man 3 takes place the Christmas after the Avengers (eg. December 2012, check)

For the 8 years thing to work there'd have to be like 5-6 years in between the Avengers/Iron Man 3 and the Winter Soldier. I'm pretty sure Cap hadn't been around that long in that movie.

I don't want this thread to be overtaken on a minor matter in the movie btw, and I'm not pulling out my hair going ra ra ra on the internet either, but it is nice to think the MCU is this living, breathing thing that you can connect the dots across all its various spectrums. And when things like this happen it kinda ruins that IMO.

Personally I'd rather ignore that 8 years line and stick to how it was, and seen as Homecoming dances are in Autumn/Fall, I'd personally put the latest Spidey film it in late 2016

 

Those dates are, as noted, rendered meaningless and overridden by Homecoming. The dates for Phase 1 in relation to Homecoming are what matter, ultimately, and everything else can be reasonably slotted in to fit around the 2008/2009 and 2016 timeframes unless there's a major discrepancy, in which case we just have to ignore what's given as far as dates and let other given dates cancel out said discrepancy.

 

^ What do you mean by dates though, as in ignore say "hey that was in 2012" or as in say "that was two years ago"?

 

^ Both.

 

Could do that. Could ignore all that stuff in loads of films... or ignore it one film (Homecoming) That seems easier for now

(As I said a while ago, I'll just see how it plays out in future movies)

 

Homecoming is clearly meant to be the 'retcon point' for the MCU's chronology, so ignoring it makes no sense.

 

As I said, for now. I also said before the dates are unimportant. If Avengers is Year 0 and Homecoming is Year 8, it must be late Year 8 for the Homecoming dance, so Civil War is like mid Year 8. And as it's the Christmas after The Avengers, Iron Man 3 is December Year 0.
If it's believable for Iron Man 3 to Civil War to take place over 7 or 8 years, great. Just I'm sorry but for me it's not. That's my peace.


Anyway as for the movie, some folk online were wondering if Tony is still making new tech for Cap just in case, with the "Cap's new shield line." Until (and if) we see it, I like to imagine in my head it's like Coulson's energy shield we see in Seasons 3 & 4 of AoS (which in turn was based on a Cap replacement shield in the comics.) That'd be cool.

 

To make the timeline more confusing, when Cap wakes up in present day I'm his first movie he's told he's been out for 70-something years. In Homecoming in the detention PSA he says he was asleep for 60-something years. It'd really seem the timeline has been shifted making everything take place more in the past.

 

Again, they had to because if Steve Rodgers HAD been frozen for 70+ years (he went down in 1944) - that would have meant the scene at the end of Captain America: The First Avenger (released in 2011) where Nick Fury informs him of it means the year then is 2014 (or later). If it actually IS 65 years, that makes it...2009.

 

There is also General Ross's statement in Civil War that the Avengers have been together for only four years.

 

And Vision saying in Civil War that Tony had been Iron Man for 8 years....the writers forgot that Iron Man 2 took place not too long after Iron Man 1 which meant that he'd only been Iron Man for 6 years at that point.