Speculation: Would Brooks do DS9 again

[OldManDax]

I wouldn't.

While i'm sure there would be some interesting stuff on the series and/or film with or without him, and I am a fan of all the major cast, i'd see it as yet another slight for the first (and as yet only) non-white series lead.

Moreover, i'm one of the (seemingly few) fans here who think that the inner life of say, Damar, or Garak, or Zek is NOT as interesting and compelling as the 7 year journey of a man who starts out as a broken, somewhat embittered officer who doesn't even want to be on DS9, to one who feels that DS9 is "the place where I belong" ("A Call to Arms"). And I also prefer secondary characters, however interesting, to remain well, secondary characters.

I enjoy how certain secondary characters come to the fore in DS9, notably Garak, Nog and at last Damar, but otherwise I echo your sentiments for the most part.

While (to its credit) DS9 remained a true ensemble show throughout, Sisko, Kira and Odo are at the core of the saga, with Quark as a sort of stable pivot point at the middle of it all, like the station itself. These to me are the show's most important, most fully-realized characters, and they are the ones that interest me the most. (In fairness to my Cardassian-loving brethren, I do think Garak and Dukat are next on this list )

This.

I know it is a bit of a nitpick, but I always find myself getting annoyed when people list Worf/Michael Dorn in the cast credits ahead of Odo/Rene Auberjonois. I'm like "no, people, ODO is the third of the series' BIG THREE. Put Worf fourth". Just sayin...

For the record, I enjoy most of the series' secondary characters as well. Clearly the series' would not be the same without them. Martok, Nog, Dukat, Garak, Winn etc. were a great reason the show was as good as it was.

I just tend to get impatient when the writers (as sometimes happened in Season 7), forget that these characters are not ends unto their own, but ideally, well-realized catalysts helping to drive the central characters and plots.

 

[FordSVT]

While i'm sure there would be some interesting stuff on the series and/or film with or without him, and I am a fan of all the major cast, i'd see it as yet another slight for the first (and as yet only) non-white series lead.

I know it is a bit of a nitpick, but I always find myself getting annoyed when people list Worf/Michael Dorn in the cast credits ahead of Odo/Rene Auberjonois. I'm like "no, people, ODO is the third of the series' BIG THREE. Put Worf fourth". Just sayin...

You mean you wouldn't see putting him fourth on the credits as a slight against a black actor?

The reason it's still hard to talk about issues of race is because of people who automatically cry "racist" at every perceived slight.

And 1/4 captains being black is probably pretty close to the ratio of black:non-black people in the world (and much higher than the ratio of black:white in the USA), just sayin'....

 

[OldManDax]

While i'm sure there would be some interesting stuff on the series and/or film with or without him, and I am a fan of all the major cast, i'd see it as yet another slight for the first (and as yet only) non-white series lead.

I know it is a bit of a nitpick, but I always find myself getting annoyed when people list Worf/Michael Dorn in the cast credits ahead of Odo/Rene Auberjonois. I'm like "no, people, ODO is the third of the series' BIG THREE. Put Worf fourth". Just sayin...

Lol - where to start?

First off, you obviously have some hang ups that have absolutely nothing to do with my statements or the context of this discussion.

You might notice that I said yet another slight - which suggests that there have been several...a good person, who wants to get at the root of an issue, to actually understand an issue, and not simply impose their particular polemic upon an issue, would at minimum, inquire about what those slights have been. For the record, many Niners will tell you that Sisko has been subjected to quite a few.

Second, spare me the poor, aggrieved white guy act, who is so oppressed by the ultrasensitive, race conscious black masses act. Race is a complicated issue, and won't simply go away, by waving the magic hand of American prosperity and "boldly going forth" (i.e "getting over" the past).

You mean you wouldn't see putting him fourth on the credits as a slight against a black actor?

The reason it's still hard to talk about issues of race is because of people who automatically cry "racist" at every perceived slight.

And 1/4 captains being black is probably pretty close to the ratio of black:non-black people in the world (and much higher than the ratio of black:white in the USA), just sayin'....

First off, you obviously have some hang ups that have absolutely nothing to do with my statements or the context of this discussion.

You might notice that I said yet another slight - which suggests that there have been several...a good person, who wants to get at the root of an issue, to actually understand an issue, and not simply impose their particular polemic upon an issue, would at minimum, inquire about what those slights have been. For the record, many Niners will tell you that Sisko has been subjected to quite a few.

Second, spare me the poor, aggrieved white guy act, who is so oppressed by the ultrasensitive, race conscious black masses act. Race is a complicated issue, and won't simply go away, by waving the magic hand of American prosperity and "boldly going forth" (i.e "getting over" the past).

Btw, it's 1/5 captains...And Trek, at least ostensibly, DOES NOT JUST REFLECT THE AMERICAN REALITY.

Just sayin.

 

[FordSVT]

^How do you know I'm white? And I'm not American either. You're right, 1/5 captains, my mistake. My brain likes to pretend Enterprise didn't happen sometimes. There are probably... what... 1-1.5 billion black people in the world? How does that make me less correct about the ratio of black to white Captains in Trek by deferring to a worldwide perspective?

And while you might pretend that Trek doesn't represent the American reality (I know this because you yelled it at me), Central Casting and a largely American audience certainly does.

We've had a black, American man, a white, American woman, two white American males and a white guy from Europe. If you want to read bigotry into that, be my guest. I'd call it a shortage of recognizable, Kenyan or Japanese-born, English speaking actors in Hollywood in the 1990s.

This is derailing the thread, and I try not to make a habit of arguing with deniers of science anyway, there isn't much point.

 

[Marie1]

Ooookay...

Anyway... I think it'd have to be something set in the future- llooonnnggg in the future, given how much time has gone by, and how people seem to be living a bit longer in the ST future. Which begs the question- what would he do? Would it be some lame cameo? If so... and it was silly... why bother?

If it was him doing something interesting, and there was more DS9 coming up on screen for some reason, I'm sure he would.

 

[OldManDax]

^How do you know I'm white? And I'm not American either. You're right, 1/5 captains, my mistake. My brain likes to pretend Enterprise didn't happen sometimes. There are probably... what... 1-1.5 billion black people in the world? How does that make me less correct about the ratio of black to white Captains in Trek by deferring to a worldwide perspective?

And while you might pretend that Trek doesn't represent the American reality (I know this because you yelled it at me), Central Casting and a largely American audience certainly does.

We've had a black, American man, a white, American woman, two white American males and a white guy from Europe. If you want to read bigotry into that, be my guest. I'd call it a shortage of recognizable, Kenyan or Japanese-born, English speaking actors in Hollywood in the 1990s.

This is derailing the thread, and I try not to make a habit of arguing with deniers of science anyway, there isn't much point.

Well, first, i'll ignore your "deniers of science" of comment - since that would inevitably lead to a TNZ discussion which is better left for well, TNZ. I'll only say that it might wise for a Trek fan and especially, I assume, a fan of DS9 (or at least a casual watcher), to understand that it is quite possible for an individual to actually look at the ostensible arguments for a certain "how we got here" hypothesis, find innumerable holes in said hypothesis, and actually come to a different conclusion. Ya know, actually, think and reason for themselves. Quite a radical premise, dont cha think?

In any case, i'll only offer another logic: if Trek's premise starts with the idea that all of earth, not just America and/or Europe has united and become one under one banner (i.e the UFP), wouldn't it make sense that we should see, at least ny the fifth series, a greater variety of persons in the CO position.

And i'm not just speaking of "race" here, but also of nationality. Is it truly rational for us to have seen all of ONE non-American in the Captain's Chair, some 35 plus years after Trek's inception. I would argue no. Would you argue?

od forbid anyone should even have a serious thought to themselves that doesn't meet with the peer review/groupthink of certain all-knowing evolutionary types).

 

[RandyS]

^
No one posting on a DS9 forum can claim to have not experienced Brooks hamming it up.

I can. I've never met the man, and never expect to.

But I would like to. Sisko is one of my favorite Star Trek characters, and Brooks did an excellent job playing him.

 

[zar]

Well, first, i'll ignore your "deniers of science" of comment

You say you'll ignore it, but then your whole opening and closing paragraphs are in response to it.

Anyway, ignoring those paragraphs, and Ford's ignorant ad-hom attack based on a sentence in your sig, his point makes much more sense to me than yours:

There is nothing at all racist or one-sided about casting a white American man and woman, a black, and a European, for an American-based TV show. Especially considering both Shatner and the woman originally cast as Janeway were actually Canadians, and a black man was among those considered for Picard. Obviously the main factors for choosing actors were talent and availability.

In any case, i'll only offer another logic: if Trek's premise starts with the idea that all of earth, not just America and/or Europe has united and become one under one banner (i.e the UFP), wouldn't it make sense that we should see, at least ny the fifth series, a greater variety of persons in the CO position.

First of all, the fifth series was set before the UFP existed. And it's already established that the UFP and Starfleet are still headquartered in the USA, which is a reasonable projection of the future considering how NASA is by far the highest budgeted space agency.

Is it truly rational for us to have seen all of ONE non-American in the Captain's Chair, some 35 plus years after Trek's inception.

That's one out of the five captains who appear in opening credits, not one in 35 years. In all the years of the show we HAVE seen a large number of captains of various races and nationalities.