Speculation on other Starships we might encounter?

[137th Gebirg]

I don't get this insistence that Klingons having birds is somehow wrong.

It's consistent: they do have ships named Warbirds and Birds of Prey, and Raptors if one wants to use the vaguely avian interpretation of that word.

It's also fitting: they all look like birds, with wings and a beak.

It's a Klingon thing, is all. And quite probably a thing for three dozen other species, considering how natural it is to associate flying things with, well, flying things.

Most of Star Trek was "never supposed to happen": the Federation nevertheless happened and stuck, intense Vulcan emotion came and went and then came again and stuck. Heck, even the Klingons only happened because they couldn't afford all those expensive Romulan ears. But what did happen became "real" at that very moment. And it's not as if there's ever been a drawback.

Timo Saloniemi

No. It is a Romulan thing. It has always been a Romulan thing. There are birds on damn near literally everything owned by Romulans. Aside from the ships, there is nothing even remotely involving bird reverence in Klingon culture. It all got screwed up with TSFS when the script originally called for Romulans and they changed it in pre-production but kept the ship design they built for it. If any Klingon ship must be an animal it should be a Targ of Prey. Or a Glommer of Prey.

No. Effin'. Birds.

 

[pst]

If any Klingon ship must be an animal it should be a Targ of Prey. Or a Glommer of Prey.

klingon dragonfly of prey:

 

[137th Gebirg]

Ugh...don't remind me. It's a great new ship design - just not for Klingons.

 

[pst]

Ugh...don't remind me. It's a great new ship design - just not for Klingons.

you know, i never noticed the circular saw at the bottom of it until just now...

 

[Timo]

No. It is a Romulan thing. It has always been a Romulan thing. There are birds on damn near literally everything owned by Romulans.

It's their national symbol - we get multiples of that, and nothing more. Humans might just as well be "about stripes".

Although we're "about birds", too - they are all over our uniforms, statues, vehicles and weapons. Birds are simply cool, for being what we are not.

Aside from the ships, there is nothing even remotely involving bird reverence in Klingon culture.

Why should there be? It's not about Klingon culture, or "aside". It's about their ships, which are all named after bird things (if at all).

Although we don't know who does the naming. ENT would suggest it's the Vulcans. Which just means that Klingon birds are Romulan birds deep down - but this ignores the fact that they are also shaped like birds while human or Andorian or Vulcan ships are not.

It all got screwed up with TSFS when the script originally called for Romulans and they changed it in pre-production but kept the ship design they built for it.

Who cares? In the Trek universe, that didn't happen.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in "Balance of Terror" (and all subsequent episodes where stock footage from BoT was used), I don't believe the word "bird of prey" was ever actually used in dialogue to describe the Romulan ship. While it's true that a very large bird was painted on the underside of the hull (and according to Stiles this was also the case during the Earth-Romulan War), Star Trek's history past and present has only ever used the term "bird of prey" to describe a Klingon ship. Even in TUC, the crew talks about a "bird of prey" (in reference to Chang's BoP) as if that term is exclusive only to Klingon ships.

Do I personally agree with this line of reasoning? Not really. There really is no valid reason why Klingon ships should be described as birds, especially since by TNG any kind of alliance or ship-trading agreements between the Klingons and the Romulans are long since over.

Who cares? In the Trek universe, that didn't happen.

I think what 137th Gebirg means is that IRL, the use of the BoP in STIII influenced all future Klingon ship design aesthetics, while being based on what was essentially a mistake. They had already made an expensive Romulan ship model when they decided to change the antagonists to Klingons. Perhaps if they'd just painted over the green and red paint with blue and called the ship a Klingon fighter (which is how it's described in Vonda Macintyre's novelization of the film), then stability would have been maintained

 

[Timo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in "Balance of Terror" (and all subsequent episodes where stock footage from BoT was used), I don't believe the word "bird of prey" was ever actually used in dialogue to describe the Romulan ship.

True; the designation never appears in any other incarnation of onscreen Trek, either. (There's a screwy VOY Okudagram with a side view of the inaccurate Encyclopedia ship, though, and we may pretend we actually see the designation there.)

However, Kirk readily identifies a flickering cloak with a "Klingon Bird of Prey". Does this mean that all Birds of Prey are Klingon, or that they are not and thereby require additional specifiers?

Do I personally agree with this line of reasoning? Not really. There really is no valid reason why Klingon ships should be described as birds, especially since by TNG any kind of alliance or ship-trading agreements between the Klingons and the Romulans are long since over.

Besides the fact that they are birds, by looks?

I guess there's no valid reason why Romulan ships should be described as birds either, then...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

Besides the fact that they are birds, by looks?

Klingon D7 battlecruisers resemble birds too, but no one ever called them by that moniker.

 

[Timo]

How do we know? Vulcans believed in Klingon Warbirds - perhaps the very ships of ENT "Unexpected".

Certainly the basic shape was called Warbird in the 2009 movie, even if the exact design and size are arguable.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[137th Gebirg]

Klingon D7 battlecruisers resemble birds too, but no one ever called them by that moniker.

I find them more akin to bats with cobra heads, not birds. TNG's Vor'cha and Negh'var follow along the similar lines that were laid out by the D-7 and K'Tinga. The Bird of Prey was the exception to Klingon design, never the rule. Hell, the first generation of the Negh'var as seen in the "AGT" finale (sometimes referred to as the "Voodieh") actually had fangs! Birds don't have fangs - bats and cobras do, though.

 

[XCV330]

Klingons refuse to call the D7 their BattleGoose

I know the ship class would now be old as hell and its not named after an American astronaut, so fails the Eaves test, but I REALLY would like to see a Daedalus, even if its just an old wreck.

 

[Timo]

Klingon birds have fangs, talons and tentacles!

The ST3:TSfS design had wings, neck and head, much like the TOS thing that preceded them, and was a complete departure from the aesthetics of the TOS Romulan ship. Good thing it swapped allegiance! ENT gave us flocks of ships with wings, neck and head, making it very much a Klingon thing. That the Klingons are moving away from it in the 24th century is their prerogative, I guess.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[pst]

Klingon D7 battlecruisers resemble birds too, but no one ever called them by that moniker.

the OG klingon ship never looked very birdlike to me, however (via memory-alpha) matt jefferies apparently used birds as inspiration when he was designing the D7:

We tried to get into it some of the qualities of a manta ray, shark, or bird of prey, because the Klingons follow that general feeling.

so there's that.

anyway, someone on reddit replaced the "D7" in "choose your pain" with a D7. primitive, but effective.

 

[Tuskin38]

It wasn't made by that reddit poster, it was made by one of the guys at Trek Yards.

 

[pst]

It wasn't made by that reddit poster, it was made by one of the guys at Trek Yards.

 

[Tuskin38]

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[AaronMorse]

Spoiler: Starships as of end of Episode 8

Episode 1
USS Shenzhou, NCC-1227, Walker Class, Captain Georgiou, Abandonned 2256

Episode 2 Battle at the Binary Stars
USS Clarke, NCC-1661, Malachowski Class, Destroyed May 2256
USS Yeager, NCC-1437, Cardenas Class, Captain Maranville, Destroyed May 2256
USS Sioux, Malachowski or Engle Class, Likely Destroyed May 2256
USS Dana, Hoover Class, Likely Destroyed May 2256
USS Shran, NCC-1413, Magee Class, Likely Destroyed May 2256
USS Kerala, NCC-1255, Shepard Class, Likely Destroyed May 2256
USS Earhart, Malachowski or Engle Class, Likely Destroyed May 2256
USS Edison, NCC-1683, Hoover Class, Likely Destroyed May 2256
USS Europa, NCC-1648, Nimitz Class, Admiral Anderson, Destroyed May 2256
USS Ride, Shepard Class Class, Likely Destroyed May 2256
USS T'Plana Hath, NCC-1004, Engle Class, Likely Destroyed May 2256

Episode 3
USS Discovery, NCC-1031, Crossfield Class, Captain Lorca
USS Glenn, NCC-1030, Crossfield Class, Scuttled Nov 2256

Episode 5
USS Buran Captain Lorca, Destroyed 2256 June

Episode 6 Lethe
USS Enterprise, NCC-1701, Constitution Class

Episode 8
USS Gagarin, NCC-1309, Shepard Class
USS Hoover, Hoover Class, Destroyed Dec 2256
USS Muroc, Destroyed Dec 2256

 

[Tuskin38]

Some stuff from John Eaves' facebook I think people here would find interesting, 50-60 ships were designed for the show, and they take NCC numbers from the books into account apparently.

 

[zar]

No. It is a Romulan thing. It has always been a Romulan thing. There are birds on damn near literally everything owned by Romulans. Aside from the ships, there is nothing even remotely involving bird reverence in Klingon culture. It all got screwed up with TSFS when the script originally called for Romulans and they changed it in pre-production but kept the ship design they built for it. If any Klingon ship must be an animal it should be a Targ of Prey. Or a Glommer of Prey.

No. Effin'. Birds.

It was screwed up ever since Romulans were using D7s in TOS. That wasn't "supposed" to happen either, and it was essentially for the same reason as the "Romulan" Klingon ship in TSFS: Money was already invested in the ship model. Regardless, Romulans using Klingon design and Klingons using Romulan design happened and are now inextricably part of the tapestry of Star Trek. Now DSC is showing us more Klingon ships that look Romulan. Maybe this is another not-supposed-to-happen that coincidentally matches the previous ones, or maybe this time it's deliberate.

Wacky speculation: No Effin Birds is actually one of House T'Kuvma's mottos. Remaining Klingon means using his dad's monstrosity and similar designs because these are true Klingon designs. Secretly, the "Klingon" D7 was stolen from the Romulans all along, not the other way around, along with the TSFS BOP and all the other bird-like "Klingon" designs from ENT etc.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm actually liking the idea that "D7" isn't meant to describe just one ship class, but a range of them, taking into account things like crew complement, power readings, weaponry, etc. So any ship class which falls within this range (regardless of what it actually looks like) qualifies as "D7".

I mean, you know Klingons don't call it that anyway, amirite?