Species 8472 "neutered"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Ghost, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Commander Red Shirt

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    I too hate "In the Flesh." I'm all for having *some* 8472s be good guys, but taking away the entire threat not only killed a great opportunity for sinister villains, but made everything the crew went through in "Scorpion" seem pointless.
     
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  2. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You know I must be a little weird but I think the 8472 'eye' moment in Scorpion was chilling!

    Loved it.
     
  3. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Species 8472 were incredibly lame. "Oh! They don't need a spacesuit so that we don't have to get charged more for when 8472 aliens are exposed to the vacuum of space, DESPITE their having occurred naturally in an Alternate Reality that consisted of FLUIDIC space!!!" Their colour & texture was patently fake. Their animation and interaction with the live cast sucked balls. And the biggest joke of all about them was that their only claim to fame was that they could defeat ... THE BORG!!! Oh, I'm all aquiver ... I could go on and on about the absurdity of this particular "threat" that Species 8472 represented. Had they not hyped them up so much, it might not have been so bad. As it was ... I found them to be hateful -- OK? -- hate...FULL!!!
     
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  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    By the standards of TV-quality VFX, I'm pretty sure 8472 was pretty good for the time...
     
  5. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    True. :techman:
    By the way, what a pity that the series has lost so much time with Kazons and Hirogens, who were uninteresting, IMO.
     
  6. WarpTenLizard

    WarpTenLizard Commander Red Shirt

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    The Hirogen were so bored of THEMSELVES they pretended to be Nazis instead.
     
  7. IconianArmy

    IconianArmy Ensign Newbie

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    I agree with you wholeheartedly. I felt even in TNG that the writers should built more on the Sheliak. I mean I’m an avid Trekkie and don’t know much about them, their strengths, etc. They view humans as a vermin infestation that needs to be eradicated I could only surmise they were powerful and they were very dark and creepy looking.
     
  8. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    I think it was made clear the sheliak are incredibly legalistic and seemingly isolationist so as long as the federation held up its end of whatever bargain the sheliak would leave them be.

    As for Species 8472-their paranoia was understandable and if one watches In the Flesh closely its pretty clear peace is not a guarantee-Boothby-8472 says as much that his superiors might not be inclined towards peace.

    And their relationship with the federation in the novels is touched on as mistrustful and distant with one infiltrator telling Chakotay(I think) that Species 8472 will contact them when they are willing/comfortable enough to do so.
     
  9. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, there were a few problems with the 8472. One was that the inherent limitations of Voyager meant they could never tell an epic long story in the first place, and secondly the negative audience reaction had to the 8472 aliens. They were pissed that Voyager introduced an alien species that could fight off the Borg.
     
  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Source for the audience reacting negatively to 8472 on that basis, please?
     
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  11. φ of π

    φ of π Captain Captain

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    Species 8472 knew details of the Federation down to the gardener, but didn't know the speed limitations of Warp drive?
     
  12. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You heard about how Voyager "ruined" the Borg? It's because of the 8472 and "Scorpion" alone. They just couldn't handle the simple IDEA of there being another force out there that could fight them on equal terms. And that Voyager was the series to introduce them was an unforgivable sin.

    So you want a source, look at how Borg fans view Voyager.
     
  13. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's really interesting, actually. The concept for Scorpion began as simply "an image of Voyager traveling through the wreckage of a bunch of destroyed Borg ships."

    I've come to believe most complaints about these types of shows and movies(star trek/star wars, and a dozen others) originate with a single person. And because of the "fan community" is repeated, spread, and expands. Then people choose sides.

    Humans are no less tribal today than they've ever been.
     
  14. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nah. Complaints start when the episode contradicts everything a viewer knew about the Borg and expects the viewer to just accept it. It also compounds the issue when that episode is not good.
     
  15. Leviathan

    Leviathan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Neutered? Ah so they were defeated by Bob Barker.
     
  16. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    To borrow a trope there is always a bigger fish.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlwaysABiggerFish

    As for the Borg the rot set in for them in TNG. The problem with introducing a powerful enemy is the more you use them the less effective they become (and the same thing occurs in other shows)
     
  17. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Isn't Scorpion one of those big time favorite episodes? It's like the 4th most rewatched Star Trek episode worldwide.

    Did it contradict previous Borg appearances?
     
  18. BigDaveX

    BigDaveX Commander Red Shirt

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    Really? I've always been under the impression that "Dark Frontier" and "Unimatrix Zero" were considered to be the real culprits in ruining the Borg, chiefly because they marked the point where the Voyager crew themselves stopped seeing the Borg as any serious threat.
     
  19. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No one had nearly as many problems with "Descent" as they did with "Scorpion".

    Didn't stop people from complaining that the mere TEASER for Scorpion destroyed the Borgs' image.

    Scorpion was considered the beginning of the fall, because we saw them actually losing to someone else in combat instead of a plot contrivance stopping them. DF and UZ are seen as minor instances after the damage "Scorpion" did in making the Borg look bad.
     
  20. Refuge

    Refuge Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I like the Borg and Species 8472. It was cool that there was a species that the Borg tried to assimilate and was able to take them on.
     
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