Hello all, Perhaps a bit of a strange title for a topic, I could also have called it "Species 8472 defanged" but I decided to go with this. A little earlier I was looking at a list of the best Star Trek games that have been released in the last couple of decades and one of the titles mentioned was Star Trek TNG Birth of the Federation. For those of you who do know know about this, it is a turn based strategy game similar to Master of Orion by the same publisher in which you have to lead one of the classic Star Trek civilizations and establish an empire, though under the Federation it would be a "Federation". I don't recall what the end goals were, probably diplomatic and military victories, and perhaps who has the most territory but not the rest. Anyway it started to make me think about ideas for a Birth of the Federation 2 type game and at some point I was thinking of "outside" threats (AI threats that show up from time to time like disasters or "monsters"). The most obvious normal threat would be the Borg Collective but I was also thinking of a threat from really outside, like another universe which would become active once the player's civilization has grown to a certain size, and for that Species 8472 would be the ideal choice. Or is it really? Species 8472 started out as this really formidable almost incomprehensible threat in "Scorpion", and they remained relatively unknown in "Prey", but in "In the Flesh" Species 8472 were working on an infiltration project that is not that dissimilar to that of the Founders from the Dominion, and a lot of their "alien-ness" disappeared as members resembling Starfleet Academy personnel talked to Janeway and Chakotay in English. I think this ruined what could have been a relatively good idea that could have been used in a few more stories. I know Star Trek is about diplomacy and finding common ground, resolving conflicts rather than engaging them but it may be carried sometimes a little to far, trying to "humanize" almost everything alien. Species 8472 was an almost Lovecraftian/Cthulhu Mythos type interdimensional threat, but still something that could be engaged military wise rather than them being such a powerful alien force that their mere presence warps reality around themselves and drives people insane by merely looking at them. I know that leaving them as a two dimensional type villain would not make them very interesting, especially on the long run, but on the other hand Star Trek could have used another "villain" that is truly alien and can not be approached diplomatically (at least for the time being) or truly understood. The best Starfleet can do for now is keep them at bay and stop any plans Species 8472 has against our universe and everyone in it. Years ago in a Star Trek fan magazine I read previews or should I say "speculations" about future Voyager episodes. One was about Voyager's hundreth episode and the writer had mistakenly mixed "Timeless" with "In the Flesh", Species 8472 planning an attack against the Federation and somehow the Voyager crew getting into contact with Geordie LaForge and now trying to prevent this attack or warn Starfleet. I think that would have been better than "In the Flesh" with its plot of Species 8472 wanting to impersonate humans, Klingons and other species to infiltrate the Federation and other civilizations. It would have probably be a very action/special effects oriented episode with not really a lasting message but it would have allowed Species 8472 to return in any future Voyager episode, or future Star Trek series as a really alien opponent. Perhaps some people here liked "In the Flesh" or feel the same like me?