Yep N1 had 30 of lesser power.. So.. Most powerful first stage ever?
News SpaceX heavy-lift vehicles: Launch Thread
- Thread starter XCV330
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Super Heavy Lift First Stage Thrusts
^never acheived orbit
*in production, not yet flown to orbit
I am including in that list arbitrarily anything that can put 45000kg into low earth orbit, to take out things called heavy like Delta IV Heavy that are just not in the same class. New Glenn kind of bridges the place between launch vehicles like Angara and Delta IV Heavy to true heavy lifters like Falcon Heavy. And I know China is working on something heavy lift, but who knows.
Anyway, yes Starship/Super Heavy first stage stack is more powerful by quite a bit. The N-1 is surprising, compared to Saturn 5, but it must be remembered that Saturn's second stage was quite powerful in its own right. There are two very different schools of thought between both designs.
(edit.. fixed the Shuttle thrust figure)
Code:
Saturn V First Stage: 35.1 MN
N-1:^ 45.4
Space Shuttle Stack: 30.16 MN
Energya (4 Zenit + 4 RD-0120: 35'ish MN
Falcon 9 Heavy: 22.8 MN
Starship/Super Heavy:* 74 MN
SLS Block 1:* 38.3 MN
New Glenn:* 17.1 MN^never acheived orbit
*in production, not yet flown to orbit
I am including in that list arbitrarily anything that can put 45000kg into low earth orbit, to take out things called heavy like Delta IV Heavy that are just not in the same class. New Glenn kind of bridges the place between launch vehicles like Angara and Delta IV Heavy to true heavy lifters like Falcon Heavy. And I know China is working on something heavy lift, but who knows.
Anyway, yes Starship/Super Heavy first stage stack is more powerful by quite a bit. The N-1 is surprising, compared to Saturn 5, but it must be remembered that Saturn's second stage was quite powerful in its own right. There are two very different schools of thought between both designs.
(edit.. fixed the Shuttle thrust figure)
So the N1 would have to burn it's 1st stage longer to make up for a weaker 2nd stage or would the burn times be the same but Saturn didn't need as much thrust because the 2nd stage could continue the heavy lifting?
N1 was a 4 stage rocket. It's stages did not have as long a duration. Saturn V was a three stage rocket, but could use 2 stages for low earth orbit (which was how it put the Skylab station in orbit, using Skylab as an inert stage 3, so to speak). Saturn's 2nd and third stage were hydrolox engines, which have a much higher ISP than the kerolox used on stage 1. The J-2 motors of the 2nd and 3rd Saturn V stages had vaccum Isp of 421. The engines on the 2nd,3rd and 4th stages of the N1 were kerolox with Isp's in the 300's.
At the time the J2 was a huge technological leap in technology. Working with liquid hydrogen, not to mention igniting it, had to be learned and remained difficult. For all the size of it, the N1 would not have been capable of putting more that one person on the moon at a time.
“….including in that list arbitrarily anything that can put 45000kg into low earth orbit, to take out things called heavy like Delta IV Heavy that are just not in the same class….”
Thank You
It was beyond gall when Delta IIIs solids were put on Delta II and they called it “Delta II Heavy”
N-1 tapered to a point and had spherical internal tanks IIRC….further cutting into its usable volume. Saturn was the tank and was more columnar.
AMLLV, Big Onion and Super Nexus were Sea Dragon+
Griffin wanted the COMET HLLV, which *might* be the CZ-9 inspiration.
Thank You
It was beyond gall when Delta IIIs solids were put on Delta II and they called it “Delta II Heavy”
N-1 tapered to a point and had spherical internal tanks IIRC….further cutting into its usable volume. Saturn was the tank and was more columnar.
AMLLV, Big Onion and Super Nexus were Sea Dragon+
Griffin wanted the COMET HLLV, which *might* be the CZ-9 inspiration.
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not SpaceX but the chinese are getting into the reusable launch vehicle game though at this point other than the thing took and landed, details are scarce.
It is believed to be space plane configuration rather than a rocket system.
https://spacenews.com/china-launche...cle-for-reusable-space-transportation-system/
It is believed to be space plane configuration rather than a rocket system.
https://spacenews.com/china-launche...cle-for-reusable-space-transportation-system/
Well isn't that what most countries do to be fair?
There was a huge news story today about China with the USA, the UK, and Australia lashing out about a Chinese hack of Microsoft exchange services So this sounds like yep could be China
Another tangent.
Boeing's Starliner capsule has been cleared for a second test flight which is scheduled for July 30th which should see it travel to the ISS and return to Earth after 5 days in orbit.
Boeing cleared to launch Starliner on 2nd test flight (msn.com)
Intersting that SpaceX got a $2.6bil contract to that lead to the development of Dragon, yet Boeing got $4.6bil to do Starliner.
Boeing's Starliner capsule has been cleared for a second test flight which is scheduled for July 30th which should see it travel to the ISS and return to Earth after 5 days in orbit.
Boeing cleared to launch Starliner on 2nd test flight (msn.com)
Intersting that SpaceX got a $2.6bil contract to that lead to the development of Dragon, yet Boeing got $4.6bil to do Starliner.
SpaceX have gotten a contract for the 2024 launch of the Europa Clipper mission to Jupiter with the working done by a Falcon Heavy.
https://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-taps-spacex-falcon-heavy-rocket-to-launch-jupiter-moon-mission/
https://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-taps-spacex-falcon-heavy-rocket-to-launch-jupiter-moon-mission/
SpaceX have complete stacking a Starship prototype on a Heavy Booster in preparation for orbital test flight test flight in a bit over 2 weeks pending FAA approval and the completion of some minor work on Starship 20.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/06/elon-musk-spacex-starship-fully-stacked-is-dream-come-true.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/06/elon-musk-spacex-starship-fully-stacked-is-dream-come-true.html
Better pics
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/08/starbase-surge-booster-4-ship-20/
My God....
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423659261452709893/photo/3
https://interestingengineering.com/elon-musks-spacex-full-starship-launch-system
https://wonderfulengineering.com/sp...arship-launch-system-for-the-very-first-time/
Elon unplugged interview (a few months back)
A way to separate structures via combustion
https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.A34920
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/08/starbase-surge-booster-4-ship-20/
My God....
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423659261452709893/photo/3
https://interestingengineering.com/elon-musks-spacex-full-starship-launch-system
https://wonderfulengineering.com/sp...arship-launch-system-for-the-very-first-time/
Elon unplugged interview (a few months back)
A way to separate structures via combustion
https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.A34920
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Boeing are having to pull the Starliner from it's launch vehicle and return it to the factory for deep diagnostics on value issue.
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/13/...apsule-iss-launch-valve-troubleshooting-delay
https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/13/...apsule-iss-launch-valve-troubleshooting-delay
Sent back to factory? That sucks. I mean Boeing is screwing up left and right as of late. May need to think about doing a top down review of what the actual hell there doing. People are screwing up at multiple levels and costing billions.
On the plus side S20 is at the launch site for more tests.
On the plus side S20 is at the launch site for more tests.
Doesn't that have the potential for them to lose any future contracts?
On one hand, space is hard and such set backs are par for the course, and not a serious indication that there is a big problem with Starliner in the long term.
On the other hand, SpaceX is running circles around Boeing. Their next “set back” will be like Starship heat shield disintegrating on re-entry months ahead of expectations.
On the other hand, SpaceX is running circles around Boeing. Their next “set back” will be like Starship heat shield disintegrating on re-entry months ahead of expectations.
Well according to Musk, if it doesn't explode on the Pad, its a success. Anything else is gravy!
If a RUD on re-entry happens on the second attempt with another booster and starship, with the first going off with the pad, it will still be ahead of when I was expecting this to be anywhere near flight-ready. 
Their prototypes were imploding like yesterday. Now they are putting Raptors like crazy, and have so many boosters in the queue they could probably fly the second one before you blink.
Their prototypes were imploding like yesterday. Now they are putting Raptors like crazy, and have so many boosters in the queue they could probably fly the second one before you blink.
