Space X Latest Launch

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Wrong direction, mate. You really need to do a burn to increase orbital velocity and thereby raise the aphelion and then do another burn at aphelion to circularise the orbit. Is it just me or is it getting warm in here?

 

[publiusr]

Killface already did that for us in Frisky Dingo.

Now there was one rocket that you could say was pointed down--the AJ-260 tests.

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The location today: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=23718.0

By the way- www.astronautix.com has been updated yet again. Take a look at the life of Phil Bono, and the lunar Gemini.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Firing a static rocket inside the Earth's atmosphere like that is effectively a closed system with the air absorbing the exhaust's momentum so the net momentum transferred to the Earth itself would be zero, would it not?

 

[Metryq]

Firing a static rocket inside the Earth's atmosphere like that is effectively a closed system with the air absorbing the exhaust's momentum so the net momentum transferred to the Earth itself would be zero, would it not?

Unless you spin the Earth around very fast before the impulse from the first side makes it through to the opposite side. (Like the Dean Drive in the old sci-fi pulps. Today one would use an enclosed microwave cavity because it sounds high tech.)

 

[publiusr]

Not good:
http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/09/spacex-falcon-9-explodes-on-launch-pad.html
http://spaceflight101.com/falcon-9-on-pad-explosion-still-frames/

Some discussion--about BFR but apt here:
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36508.msg1577195#msg1577195

"If the Amos-6 explosion was caused by a helium COPV then SpaceX should seriously consider replacing FH and F9 with an all new methalox SFR. The SFR would eliminate the troublesome helium system....SpaceX is super cooling the lox, which puts further stress on the He system and it is immersed in the lox."

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/4187/198/original.jpg

Maybe the COPV again:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40868.msg1575893#msg1575893
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30981.msg1576540#msg1576540

Some dispute that : http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=33030

I don't exactly trust composites...

Caught on radar
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/09/01/spacex-falcon-9-rocket-explodes-launch-pad-preflight-test/

Discussion
http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/09/spacex-falcon-9-explodes-on-launch-pad.html
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30981.msg1575903#msg1575903

Overlay of Dragon capsule and explosion:
https://twitter.com/StateMachines/status/771535425328459780

The rebuild http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41060.0

The fallout:
http://spacenews.com/falcon-9-explosion-could-have-ripple-effects-across-space-industry/

A post from the comment section:
"I have more confidence in ULA simply because they train their people in the ways of the steely-eyed missileers of the 60s and 70s; they cast no illusion about how serious the rocket business is."

I don't know how fair that is--but folks can enjoy their job too much:
http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-metrolink-hearing4-2009mar04-story.html

Someone had to attach that umbilical, after all. An Ariane was lost due to a rag left in the plumbing, as it were.

The real culprit here may be complacency.

I wish Space X all the best. They weren't the only ones facing hard times...

A LM-4 blew up in China as well
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40679.msg1575966#msg1575966

Is it just me or did yesterday feel "off" to folks here? I had two drivers who almost ran into me...lights on the fritz... etc

 

[sojourner]

You should get a blog for all those links.

 

[publiusr]

I distilled a lot down so folks wouldn't have to look at all of it--just the bits about the suspected failure modes.

Some think it is the COPV (but if one doesn't know what that is...) Think footnotes.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Yeah that was rather large, the explosion and all. And a hell of a lot of damage on the ground from it too.

I hope it won't be too large a setback.

 

[publiusr]

The super-chilled LOX is being looked into--talk about the water hammer effect:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30981.msg1577969#msg1577969

The COPV burst test:

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http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30981.msg1577821#msg1577821

Be careful with oxygen regulators

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What a little bit of LOX will do with plain old cotton:

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Diagram of the second stage of Falcon:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30981.msg1578740#msg1578740


In a book about the Atlas, some water lines ran near "LOX pits".
https://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Ultimate-Weapon-Those-Apogee/dp/1894959183
To keep them from freezing, folks put manure over them--a potential carbon rich fuel.

Not the first time silos have come with "rural engineering:"
http://lubbockonline.com/filed-online/2012-10-16/retiree-recalls-1962-cuban-crisis-texas-silo#

According to the document, workers installed a French drain, built two rings of pilings, cut two sump pits and poured a 12-foot curtain of concrete to deal with the water that was seeping into the pit at a rate as high as 600 gallons per minute.
The contractors tried using cottonseed hulls, horse manure, 40 sacks of calcium chloride and 2,170 sacks of cement to seal the shaft to the bedrock — all to no avail.

Yeah that was rather large, the explosion and all. And a hell of a lot of damage on the ground from it too.

I hope it won't be too large a setback.

Every company has problems:
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/09/04/spacex-crew-dragon-challenges-welds-cracks-water-seepage/

Orion:
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/09...reaches-milestone-processing-test-sls-flight/

New Mars video:

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In misc space news--the SS-18 comes to America
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/09/01/ukraine-operate-cyclone-4-launcher-north-america/

Large dish move and a big pdf on manned Venus missions:
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Recycling_a_space_antenna_999.html
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20160006329.pdf

A close shave: http://www.space.com/33993-bus-sized-asteroid-buzzes-earth.html

A space executive burned...no...really:
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/09/06/swiss-space-systems-ceo-set-fire/

How different fuels burn

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Seems a bad month already. I and Star Trek turn 50. This should be the month of good news.

The Great Galactic Ghoul is out in force, and it isn't even Halloween

 

[publiusr]

Looks like Space X will have some competition:
http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/09/17/rocket-lab-zealand-government-approval-launches/

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2016/09/12/jeff-bezos-unveils-plans-glenn-boosters/

Bezo's New Armstrong to be an even larger SHLLV

 

[sojourner]

Between MCT and New Armstrong, SLS makes even less sense.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I assume New Armstrong will aim at equivalent capabilities to or better than a Saturn V. Any details yet available?

 

[sojourner]

Shepard went suborbital, Glenn made it to orbit, Armstrong went to the moon, so if Bezos keeps to the pattern, yeah, New Armstrong will be pretty powerful.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Imagine Amazon on the Moon........ haha Galactic parcel delivery

 

[sojourner]

In the near future we could truly have Amazon Women on the Moon.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I believe the seven first stage BE-4 engines on the New Glenn will be liquid methane/LOX powered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BE-4

Is there much more information available? Why was a more complex staged combustion cycle design used rather than a simple gas-generator cycle one? Presumably, as they intend to recover and reuse both the stage and engines, it was deemed worth it for the increased efficiency.

Also, methane, unlike RP-1, doesn't cause as much unburnt carbon deposition (coking) so the staged design becomes feasible and the amount of air pollution due to incomplete combustion is presumably lower. However, one disadvantage is the lower density of methane compared to RP-1, which means a larger and heavier fuel tank is required.

The thrust is 2,400 kN (550,000 lbf) but what is the specific impulse and how might this compare to an RP-1/LOX engine with similar thrust? I assume a more efficient engine offsets the weight disadvantage of not using RP-1.

Finally, a seven engine configuration is unusual I believe. I assume the centre engine is surrounded by the other six in a hexagonal configuration and will be used on its own when recovering the stage rather than burning all seven engines.

 

[publiusr]

Between MCT and New Armstrong, SLS makes even less sense.

A real rocket in metal makes less sense than powerpoint presentations. You know--everything said about Ares V/SLS can be said about these two concepts. Who pays? What are their payloads. What are the specifics.

Right now--old space has a better record than new space-- has blown up two less pads recently, and doesn't try to put the other guy out of work out of spite, New Space has been more destructive than disrruptive.

The same things said about SLS were said about Large Hadron, NIF, ITER. Just keeping folks in the game--keeping a good techinal capability around for its own sake is of value--not "pork"

http://us.blastingnews.com/news/201...em-is-not-too-expensive-to-fly-001073007.html
http://www.space.com/33691-space-launch-system-most-powerful-rocket.html

Now that that has been said, some news about the Space X failure
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/09/spacex-press-amos-6-failure-root-cause/

Now, I had a discussion with an individual I think may be an EELV apologist--but for what it's worth:

He said: "to get the same use out of a helium tank at ambient temperature, they'd have to use a larger and/or higher pressure tank, containing more helium."

I didn't see that as a deal killer, but his response:

SpaceX has focused so heavily on reducing the S2 mass, in order to enable RTLS and barge recovery, that these kind of decisions are actually necessary.
A lot of these S2 decisions were to improve the lift primarily for CRS and GTO missions.

Then he said something snarky about about the first stage, which I don't understand...
https://disqus.com/home/discussion/..._in_rockets_helium_system/#comment-2916735257

Maybe he's ULA--but if it is a problem with supercooled LOX, then this could be a more serious problem than bad pad equipment.

Now--I hate that. I don't want to see Space X go away. Webb was more costly--exactly because of the payload shroud constraints. But I'm not trying to kill that either. I think everyone in aerospace do good work and deserve support. And that includes the good folks behind SLS folks have it in for.

I will say this. Even New Space now sees the wisdom of heavy-lift
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3065/1

 

[sojourner]

SLS is not the problem, as we keep trying to tell you. It's the pork barrel politics job program mentality inflating the price to ludicrous proportions that's the issue.

 

[publiusr]

Who is we--and what project isn't called "pork" by someone not involved. JPL is Pasadena's "pork."

 

[sojourner]

"We", as in pretty much everyone here. "Pork", as in what I said in my previous post. Spreading the project to as many congressional districts as possible, inflating the price by a significant amount just to keep people employed and their congressmen happy instead of just letting one company build it cheaper and more efficiently.