Space Battles

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

For the most part, the space battles on this show have been awesome. However, I finally watched "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2" today, and I had issue with the space battle. Why did Enterprise and Discovery launch shuttles and pods? Why did Control launch drone fighters? Wouldn't it make more sense for the larger ships to duke it out like you see in most science-fiction?

Did we see shuttles and pods participate in battles and I just forgot?

 

[NCC-73515]

Because the possibilities of huge budgets and CGI make people think they have to use them as much as they can. XD

 

[publiusr]

SFB has it that launching them as scatter packs can lose initiative

 

[fireproof78]

For the most part, the space battles on this show have been awesome. However, I finally watched "Such Sweet Sorrow, Part 2" today, and I had issue with the space battle. Why did Enterprise and Discovery launch shuttles and pods? Why did Control launch drone fighters? Wouldn't it make more sense for the larger ships to duke it out like you see in most science-fiction?

Did we see shuttles and pods participate in battles and I just forgot?

Basically, introduce numerous unpredictable factors. Control would no doubt be able to analyze the Discovery and the Enterprise capabilities and counter them. Multiple assets introduce more for the enemy to be looking at.

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

SFB? In story, extra targets makes sense, I guess? I'm used to thinking of shuttlecraft as being mostly defenseless, shields and maybe phasers. The only heavily armed shuttles I remember are the Runabouts, the Delta Flyer, and the Enterprise-E shuttles. I guess I just prefer seeing the capital ships duke it out with a greater emphasis on drama over kewl CGI.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I thought the idea of the pods, shuttles and drones were to protect/attack Michael in the Red Angel suit?

 

[Admiral Jean-Luc Picard]

A phaser beam or volley of torpedoes could do the same, no?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

You got to remember that you're fighting against AI and if you play alot of Video Games, limited AI logic will let you figure out how to deal with what the AI is doing.

Human's ability to analyze & adapt is what allows us to win over current AI in some cases.

But if you gave AI more computational power and base gameplay data sets, it gets a bit too powerful.

We don't know if the "Control AI" had enough "Simulation Data" for the scenario it was trying to acheive.

We also don't know if the "Control AI" knew about Michael Burnham's objective, the AI just seemed focused on it's own Objective and didn't figure out the Michael Burnham had a counter strategy of sorts.

Ergo leading "Control" to it's own doom by blinding following it's own objective of boarding Discovery and hunting down the AI logic and leaving his vessels to largely fight on it's own. "Control" seems to have no concern about other possible strategies like "Time Travel" moving the entire USS Discovery into the future, otherwise it would've probably gone after Michael Burnham more.

 

[Timo]

The battle as such is odd: Pike never expected to fight it, since his plan was to blow up the Discovery and demotivate Control. But somehow #1 thought it would be a good idea to bring the fightercraft along, yet a bad idea to bring along fifty starships. Perhaps she felt that no Starfleet asset could be trusted not be a Control lackey, so upgunning the Enterprise was the only option? But how could she trust a swarm of small craft, potentially remotely controlled, when a swarm of not completely autonomous spacecraft assets is exactly what Control had co-opted from S31 recently?

Making lemonade out of assorted apricots would be a fine plot element. Alas, #1 came a bit too prepared, yet at the same time a bit too little prepared: the balance of bringing/not bringing reinforcements doesn't ring all that true here.

But yeah, keeping Control off balance by doing surprising, even silly things is a valid strategy, and worked fine in the minefield already. And I can excuse Control reacting to that by deciding not to react: just barging ahead with its own agenda should have been more efficient than stopping to second-guess itself, now that it was on top tactically (a situation that might soon change, since it could no longer hijack starships like it had the S31 assets, and would be facing the full wrath of Starfleet eventually).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Perhaps she felt that no Starfleet asset could be trusted not be a Control lackey

I think #1 came to the conclusion that if S31 took over Leland, killed StarFleet Admirals, who knows what other people in StarFleet might've been infected. Best not to include others and minimize the number of personnel to who they know could be trusted. No need for "Cylon like traitors" to be amongst their midst.

so upgunning the Enterprise was the only option

If you requistion stuff, you might want to not tip your hand if S31 is watching the networks for traffic and knows what inventory requistions you're making. Just asking for more shuttlecraft isn't all that big of a deal. Especially given that the Enterprise was returning from a multi-year journey on it's own. Asking for 50 StarShips to join you might tip off your hat/plan to the "Control AI".

But how could she trust a swarm of small craft, potentially remotely controlled, when a swarm of not completely autonomous spacecraft assets is exactly what Control had co-opted from S31 recently?

I wouldn't be surprised if Enterprise personnel were flying those small craft or remote controlling them from onboard the Enterprise somewhere. Think of a massive VR gaming room spanning countless rooms to operate nearby craft.

 

[valkyrie013]

Well, Subspace was susupect so couldn't request help, and she might of just "Stole" some craft. as for them launching them, it was originally 2 vs Many ships, so they deployed everything they had.

Now the battle itselft was.. Crap.. Disco and Enterprise were Standing Still!! No impulse or Warp manouvers, It being a running battle would have made it MUCH more interesting. Them sitting there just made them Large Targets!

as for Control.. Uh.. Does that make the episode The Ultimate Computer.. well Absolutley Moronic idea to have an AI controled ship after all this??

 

[Vger23]

as for Control.. Uh.. Does that make the episode The Ultimate Computer.. well Absolutley Moronic idea to have an AI controled ship after all this??

That's a pretty good question, actually. The events of S2 DSC would seem to make the push in TOS's The Ultimate Computer for M5 units to control starships to be...…questionable at best.

 

[fireproof78]

That's a pretty good question, actually. The events of S2 DSC would seem to make the push in TOS's The Ultimate Computer for M5 units to control starships to be...…questionable at best.

But, the M5 was based upon Daystrom's engrams, so they might have thought that human component would be different.

 

[Timo]

Also, M5 was going to be a replacement starship captain, while Control was a replacement admiralty. It might actually have been a fantastic idea to give tactical command to a computer while retaining human(oid) control of strategic decisionmaking. After all, everybody seems to be an advocate of letting the computer handle things the next tier down, including aiming and firing the guns after a decision has been made to fight a particular set of adversaries.

There would be few tiers between captain and admiral in the setup where captains already have godlike powers, but plenty of tiers between captain and self-sealing stem bolt, any of which could be automatized. M5 just showed the risks of removing all-important human hesitation from the very uppermost of those tiers.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[valkyrie013]

Well, M5 had Complete control of the ship, and if said ship went rogue, then the Ai has a ship full of weapons, and depending on the type of malfunction, or awakining, then 1 ship could decemate a planet, or it could go around and take control of multipule ships. Its a problem even if 1 ship goes screw loose.
Now the ship main computer, if that went wild by itself, that could also be bad.

 

[Vger23]

Let's just agree that the Federation generally sucks at creating AI's and call it a day.

 

[The Wormhole]

Hell, I think Dr. Soong is the only one in the entire Star Trek universe to create AI that doesn't want to murder everyone with Data, and even then he still had to do exactly that and create Lore before he could learn from his mistakes and then create Data.

 

[Noname Given]

Hell, I think Dr. Soong is the only one in the entire Star Trek universe to create AI that doesn't want to murder everyone with Data, and even then he still had to do exactly that and create Lore before he could learn from his mistakes and then create Data.

It's a Soong family trait as his ancestor revived Augments who wanted to murder every Human. (IE Worst of Both Worlds - pun intended).

 

[BillJ]

For the most part, the space battles on this show have been awesome.

I find them pretty underwhelming to be honest. Really dark, with them trying to have lots going on around them. Sometimes simplicity works better.

 

[fireproof78]

SFB? In story, extra targets makes sense, I guess? I'm used to thinking of shuttlecraft as being mostly defenseless, shields and maybe phasers. The only heavily armed shuttles I remember are the Runabouts, the Delta Flyer, and the Enterprise-E shuttles. I guess I just prefer seeing the capital ships duke it out with a greater emphasis on drama over kewl CGI.

Certainly that's understandable, but these are not all shuttles, and most shuttles appear capable of being retrofitted to suit the mission profile. Recalling that TNG shuttles are products of a more peaceful era for the Federation while Season 2 of Discovery is just after the war with the Klingons. Why wouldn't their assets be suitably adjusted for combat?

And, no doubt many would prefer capital ships duking it out, but that ship has gone to warp (pun intended) a long time ago, especially with the advent of CGI and the Defiant flying in and out of capital ships to look, to use your term, "kewl." Preferences will vary. Yes, I would have preferred a capital ship slug fest but that really doesn't make sense in universe.

In universe, it makes sense to introduce multiple elements that Control cannot anticipate, or take more processing power to handle. And, since Control would know the ins and outs of the Enterprise and the Discovery it has the advantage in an all out slug fest between the capital ships.