Sovereign-Class Starship at Chin 'Toka?

[nx1701g]

I briefly though the OP image might have been a Ambassador class, like the Enterprise Cee, the pylons are similar. But the impulse engine is wrong.

I can see it, slightly, but I'm afraid that it's not an Ambassador either. The FX Team never created a digital model of the Ambassador Class.

 

[Crazyewok]

That was the Intrepid Class USS Bellerophon, flagship of Admiral Ross at the time. There was a lot that the production had to go through to get permission to use the Intrepid for those scenes. The Executives were afraid that people would confuse the Bellerophon for the Voyager and they almost weren't allowed to use the ship (at the last minute they got approval). As for confusing them it probably didn't help that stock footage of Voyager was used several times in the episode including a shot where you can clearly make out Voyager's registry number.

Surprisingly the Constitution Class also fell into this trap for the entirety of the 24th Century Treks. That's why there are other designs from the 23rd Century, but not the famous Constitution (you know because people would clearly think any Constitution Class ship on screen was the Enterprise). The Stargazer was initially meant to be a Constitution Class ship.

The Sovereign Class was refused for production for the same reason. They didn't want people to think Picard was there and that Sisko was giving Picard orders and vice versa. To help the original poster I can understand your confusion about the images. The designers stated that the Sovereign is based on the Excelsior.

What stupid back room executive bullshit.
This is why the franchise fizzled out....executives treating audience's like idiots.

 

[saladdays]

That is an Excelsior Class Starship.

The producers of DS9 confirmed that the Sovereign Class was not permitted to be used by the production during any scenes of DS9. The Sovereign was intended as a movie only vessel at that time.

It took them a great deal of time and effort to get approval to use the Intrepid Class for even one episode.

Which episode had the Intrepid class ship?

EDIT: Nevermind. I should have read more of the thread first.

 

[nx1701g]

What stupid back room executive bullshit.
This is why the franchise fizzled out....executives treating audience's like idiots.

It was an early rule though - established in the first season of TNG.

 

[USS Firefly]

Nevertheless a stupid rule.
It would be great to see a Constitution class along side the Galaxy class in TNG, or more Sovereign and Intrepid classes in DS9

 

[Tomalak]

I just assumed the Enterprise and the Sovereign were fighting in all those off-screen battles, like the strike on the Cardassian shipyards in Call to Arms. They might have been the only two Sovereign class ships in the fleet, with production halted in war time to focus efforts on less advanced and more easily-constructed ships like the numerous Defiant, Akira and Galaxy class ships we see in the battle scenes.

 

[Arpy]

In my head canon, the battles we saw weren't the actual ones. Too many limits of TV production: reused footage, lower CG quality, no shield bubbles, not enough weapons fire, not enough maneuvers, fleets too close together, not enough classes of ships from any fleet (i.e. no troop transports, hospital ships, no ships at all from the Romulans other than D'deridex warbirds, etc). Admiral Ross was on a Sovereign; was it ever stated where he was?

- or -

Sovereigns were holding the line on other fronts allowing more ships to be distributed to the main push fleets.

 

[USS KG5]

Sovereigns were holding the line on other fronts allowing more ships to be distributed to the main push fleets.

This is in canon - in Insurrection the Ent-E is off doing day to day "starfleet" stuff and is very busy as a result.

It makes sense, Starfleet would still have to do most of it's day to day stuff (even exploring, if a ship is two years out why call it back? If the war goes badly they might be the only ones left) and so they would use their fastest and most advanced ships as they can just do more in the same time.

Also, the Sovereigns, most of the Intrepids etc. would likely be able to either look after themselves or decline combat if ambushed by sneaky Dominion forays behind the lines.

 

[saladdays]

In my head canon, the battles we saw weren't the actual ones. Too many limits of TV production: reused footage, lower CG quality, no shield bubbles, not enough weapons fire, not enough maneuvers, fleets too close together, not enough classes of ships from any fleet (i.e. no troop transports, hospital ships, no ships at all from the Romulans other than D'deridex warbirds, etc). Admiral Ross was on a Sovereign; was it ever stated where he was?

Yeah, I've always wondered about the shields. Much of the time it looks like all the ships don't have any shields. I suppose it is because of TV production limits, but they always showed shields before and since on TV (although granted, not on such a wide-scale that would be necessary for Dominion War battles).

 

[Timo]

This is in canon - in Insurrection the Ent-E is off doing day to day "starfleet" stuff and is very busy as a result.

But that movie probably takes place after the war has ended. Which is why the Federicans are ready to do business with the clever So'nazi scientists - something they would outright refuse to do if the war still were going on.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

Yeah, I used to think Insurrection was concurrent with the equivalent pace of DS9 and Voyager then on air - roughly a third of the way into those seasons - thus placing Insurrection during the war. Now I think it makes more sense just after WYLB - Worf is still posted on Deep Space Nine, but the war doesn't seem to be a pressing concern, the Federation is dealing with a former Dominion ally, and Federation diplomats are busy sorting out the withdrawal of Dominion forces from the Alpha Quadrant and the rebuilding of Cardassia.

This post-war malaise seems to be what Ru-afo and Dougherty are talking about.

 

[Timo]

Worf is still posted on Deep Space Nine

This might also be worded "Worf is again posted on Deep Space Nine", as I can't believe his supposed career as diplomat should have lasted very long. Perhaps he sobered up in the airlock already, before even leaving the station; perhaps it took the flight to Qo'noS to get him to reverse his career choice. But it happened at some point before ST:NEM, and the line suggesting it would have happened only a short time before ST:NEM was cut from that movie...

Perhaps ST:FC was already indication that the Sovereign class simply wasn't ready for war yet? A year of shaking her down sounded exceptional to LaForge, who should be a good judge of such things; and she was excluded from the anti-Borg fleet, even though simply excluding Picard and having her ship participate without her should have been an option, too.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JoeZhang]

They had dozens of Galaxy's that must have been coming out of a giant replicator fully finished. Reliants, Excelsiors and about every other ship type.

I'm sure one of the technical manuals makes the claim that the Galaxy class ships we see in the war are largely empty space, just engines, weapons and vital systems.

 

[Tomalak]

This might also be worded "Worf is again posted on Deep Space Nine", as I can't believe his supposed career as diplomat should have lasted very long. Perhaps he sobered up in the airlock already, before even leaving the station; perhaps it took the flight to Qo'noS to get him to reverse his career choice. But it happened at some point before ST:NEM, and the line suggesting it would have happened only a short time before ST:NEM was cut from that movie...

Yes, a fair point. It's my head canon that Worf was rejoining the Enterprise in Nemesis to replace Data as second officer, and then became first officer after Data vaporised himself. No reason to think Worf wasn't on Deep Space Nine before that. With Sisko gone, Kira might need him more than ever.

Perhaps ST:FC was already indication that the Sovereign class simply wasn't ready for war yet? A year of shaking her down sounded exceptional to LaForge, who should be a good judge of such things; and she was excluded from the anti-Borg fleet, even though simply excluding Picard and having her ship participate without her should have been an option, too.

Timo Saloniemi

It did seem odd to keep the most advanced Borg-fighting ship away from the life-or-death fight with the Borg. But it's all explained because Picard is still in the Nexus.

 

[Timo]

I thought the Nexus was just a figment of Pike's imagination on Talos? You know, the guy that Tucker in his Xyrillian holosimulation of a life imagined would one day command an Enterprise? Although I admit it's not explicit canon that Sisko would actually have written about a Tucker in his stories.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Crazyewok]

Thing with sovereigns is they would be flag ships in there own right.

Even without the TV executive BS they would of been rare sights.

Chances are the enterprise would be in charge of the fleet defending the federation core worlds, especially since another borg incursion could happen at any point.

As for the USS sovereign, again it could of been heading a fleet elsewhere as thete was a dozen odd fleets.

Plus the USS enterprise likely wouldn't have been in action at the start of the war due to the punishment it took in first contact. It probably took 3-6 months to remove all the borg technology, repair the battle damage and train new crew to replace the many that died. Plus no doubt Picard and the surviving crew likely spent ages with the temporal investigation department lol

 

[Crazyewok]

Yeah, compared to the closer Excelsior, they look the same. Strange angle.

Still a shame they didn't have any Sovy's in there. It was an all out war after all.

They had dozens of Galaxy's that must have been coming out of a giant replicator fully finished. Reliants, Excelsiors and about every other ship type.

I dont think they were makeing new Reliants and excelsiors.

I get the impression they were massed produced from 2275 to around 2340 during the height of tensions with first the Klingons then the romulans and later the early Cardassian conflict.

Most were just mothballed ships taken out of service and refitted as best they could to combat the swams of Dominion attack ships.

Plus to add a stop gap while they built newer designs which took a hit during the borg incursion.

 

[Crazyewok]

I'm sure one of the technical manuals makes the claim that the Galaxy class ships we see in the war are largely empty space, just engines, weapons and vital systems.

Which makes sense.

No point wasting space on labs or worse schools and space for families.

Instead you can pack it with extra torpedoes, troop space, command and control equipment ect. Or just leave the empty space to absorb damage.

 

[Tomalak]

Didn't the TNG TM say the Enterprise launched a third empty for future expansion?

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

I'm sure one of the technical manuals makes the claim that the Galaxy class ships we see in the war are largely empty space, just engines, weapons and vital systems.

I would agree unless they were churning out that many all along.