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Sony Spider-Verse discussion thread

So? I'm not saying don't do shared universe. I'm saying don't do MCU phases over the top absurdity.

You're making the same mistake the studios make -- assuming that's all the MCU is, forgetting that it started out more modestly and worked its way up to that. The problem is that the studios keep trying to jump ahead to that stage, and that is not how the MCU did it, it's just how they think it did it because they're not paying attention.
 
You're making the same mistake the studios make -- assuming that's all the MCU is, forgetting that it started out more modestly and worked its way up to that. The problem is that the studios keep trying to jump ahead to that stage, and that is not how the MCU did it, it's just how they think it did it because they're not paying attention.
No, I'm saying start smaller and don't shoot for MCU level garbage.
 
No, I'm saying start smaller and don't shoot for MCU level garbage.

That's what the MCU did, they started smaller and then expanded when they realized it was working.

You seem to have this bizarre hatred for a series that bothered to be inventive instead of taking the lazy way out.
 
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No, I'm saying start smaller and don't shoot for MCU level garbage.

I repeat: You're forgetting that the MCU did start small. Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk in 2008, Iron Man 2 in 2010, Thor and Captain America in 2011, and then The Avengers in 2012. Then two standalones each in '13 and '14, then Age of Ultron and Ant-Man in '15. It eased into the interconnection over years.
 
I repeat: You're forgetting that the MCU did start small. Iron Man and The Incredible Hulk in 2008, Iron Man 2 in 2010, Thor and Captain America in 2011, and then The Avengers in 2012. Then two standalones each in '13 and '14, then Age of Ultron and Ant-Man in '15. It eased into the interconnection over years.
By all means please keep repeating it. I don't agree with what it became or the phases of expansion. I believe that model should be avoided.

Not just MCU = the sux. :rolleyes:
 
I'm not concerned with what you agree with. I'm not even talking about you. I'm talking about the objective fact of what the MCU actually did, and how other movie studios misintepret their approach and thereby get it wrong. None of that is about you.
They do get it wrong a lot.

More's the pity.
 
Yeah, a lot of the studios that have attempted to emulate the MCU seem to overlook and emulate the part where they took 6 movies to build up to a major crossover, all while making sure each and every movie actually had a story of it's own to tell with the connective stuff either being very peripheral (like Coulson recurring in a few of them) or relegated it to post credit scenes.

They all seem way too excited to get to the part where all the money magically appears that they don't take the time to lay any kind of solid foundation.

In this day and age, the best approach for anyone even hoping to attempt something like this is to do everything they can to 1) hide the fact that the movies are connected as much as possible, 2) certainly don't announce that they're making such an attempt, 3) make sure every single movie in the lead up is as good as it can be.
You'll get way more buzz if you develop a fanbase and let them feel like figuring stuff out with any stray clues of connectivity than you would blearing it from the rooftops.

I don't think Feige was saying they shouldn't follow the MCU model -- on the contrary, by saying they shouldn't get ahead of themselves, he was saying they should follow the MCU model. The MCU started out very slowly, doing standalone movies with only loose connections between them, and only gradually established stronger ties. Their priority was making each individual movie as good as it could be, and that made them worth tying into a larger whole later on. But other studios overlook the importance of laying strong foundations and rush into shared universes prematurely, focusing so much on the whole that they neglect the quality of the individual parts. That's what happened with Amazing Spider-Man 2, with the Tom Cruise The Mummy and the abortive shared universe it was supposed to spawn, and to some extent with the DCEU, which rushed into doing flawed crossovers and flailed until it finally just gave up and focused on strong standalones. Their problem was that they followed what they thought the MCU model was, but they forgot how slowly the MCU actually started out. They tried to rush to the payoff without doing the work to earn it. That's what Feige means when he says not to get ahead of themselves.

The only other franchise that's come close to getting it right is is the Legendary MonsterVerse, which laid its foundations with effective standalone Godzilla and Kong films before doing a team-up movie (although that team-up movie was awful).

Perhaps but we still haven't seen any actually work. The subtle, slow burn approach as described by Reverend and Christopher remains the gold standard until we someone else come along with another successful model. But I'm not holding my breath. Studios are too damn impatient for that instant golden ticket.

You're making the same mistake the studios make -- assuming that's all the MCU is, forgetting that it started out more modestly and worked its way up to that. The problem is that the studios keep trying to jump ahead to that stage, and that is not how the MCU did it, it's just how they think it did it because they're not paying attention.

I think the DC Film Universe COULD have actually started WITH Justice League.... yeah, skip the MCU slow build up. Why? Because after MCU showed the interets in comic movies, DC could have run with it. Even though i heard that Spiderman was the most popular comic character to the general public (i.e. merchandising), I really feel Superman and Batman (and even Wonder WOman, for girls), are just as popular, if not more so. Certianly Superman & Batman's orgin stories have been done so many times, you wouldn't even need an intro scene (like the Waynes' death in B v S) or origin (Man of Steel).

Just those 3 would be a draw. Cyborg & FLash would have been good characters to have as the characters to center this movie on... you could build on them to tell the story.

And THEN you do the solo movies... Superman and possibly Batman would have been the automatic next movies thatyou could wisely prepare for during Justice League. ANd once the movie came out, a breakout character (most likely WOnder Woman) could be annoucned soon after Justice league gets released. So as those 3 come out, you have Justice League 2...and in that movie you tweak those seocndary characters to see which of them you could announce the next movie for .

the Raimi SPider Man had enough connections for long time fans to get excited, but new stuff for newer people to get into....showing a clear love for the character.

TV Flash became CW's biggest show , a lot with the anticipation . We had a lot of obvious respect with what came before (casting of JOhn Wesley Schipp), along with wise modenrizations (Cisco Ramon was totally different from my comics intro of him in the comics... but not just me, but my daughters love and connect with the TV Cicso)

What made me hate the Garfield SPiderman was that to me it was an obvious attempt to keep the cash cow going (i.e. the movie mandate for licensing)....and it the previous love of the character was not there.

That kind of blatant greed i think is felt by at least enough loud enough audience to sink these potential franchises... you don't feel the love as you do in many other properties.

Also, they needed a visionary like Kevin Feige who can help conenct the pieces. You do NOT need to have a "thing" like the Infinity Gauntlet / Infinity Stones to tie it together... just make it feel like the same universe like pre Crisis/Secret Wars comics.

Going back to the Spiderverse... is there anyone anymore that has that kinda love? Especially for these Spiderman-related characters? Without that, the Spiderverse will generally fail (excluding the Marvel Studios drived Holland SPider as well as the miles Morales animated movies)
 
And I disagree. The DC's best films have been the standalones. Birds of Prey (yes, it has connective tissue with Suicide Squad but only to establish the relationship with the Joker which didn't need that film) and Shazam. All of the ones that are trying so very hard to be a shared universe just fall flat because they're too focused on being connected instead of focusing on just telling their own story.

Birds of Prey and Shazam! aren't 'standalones' because they're explicitly part of the DCEU.
 
The first cinematic shared universe was the Universal Monsters in the 1940s. Marvel is not unique. For that matter, the Arrowverse is just as successful a shared universe as the MCU is

The Universal monster movies, from my limited knowledge of them, weren't nearly as planned out or as broad of scope, and while one could argue that the DC CW shows were comparable creatively, there's no way it's any where near as financially successful. Also neither bridged both movies and TV.

They do get it wrong a lot.

More's the pity.

They really really haven't.
 
The Universal monster movies, from my limited knowledge of them, weren't nearly as planned out or as broad of scope, and while one could argue that the DC CW shows were comparable creatively, there's no way it's any where near as financially successful. Also neither bridged both movies and TV.

Yes, they're all different, which is the point. I was refuting the claim that there was only one unique way to do a shared universe. Yes, what the MCU achieved was exceptional, but it's overly mythologizing them to claim it's some kind of eternally unrepeatable miracle.
 
Birds of Prey and Shazam! aren't 'standalones' because they're explicitly part of the DCEU.

You can have standalone stories while still being part of the greater universe where the crossover isn't the gimmick. "Captain America: The First Avenger" is standalone. "Civil War "is DEFINITELY not.

"Shazam" and "Man of Steel "are.
Their second movie, "Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice: The Motion Picture: Part 1: The Revenge" is not.
 
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*Shrug* I think there can be some nobility to Kraven and that work and him fighting against greedier hunters was a pretty obvious characterization and plot to go with for him as protagonist that I predicted I think soon after the movie was announced.

Then that's why you're still on Sony's side. :lol:

From having watched Marvel Studios's adaptation of Mysterio, among much else, I don't think their adaptation of Kraven would be particularly better than what Sony does.
 
What did you think was great about these movies, again?

I think The Amazing Spider-Man 2 was not great but better than either Homecoming or FFH. I also think Avi Arad should get quite a bit of credit for great Spider-Man 2 (and the '90s animated series and X-Men animated series and films).
 
I don't remember them very well since I only watched the each once, but I do remember that I enjoyed both ASM movies.
It's not really part of the Sony Spider-Verse, but Netflix has added the Spectacular Spider-Man animated series. This makes me very happy since only saw most of the first season and none of the second when it first aired, and I've been dying to find it streaming some where so I can finally see all of it.
 
It's not really part of the Sony Spider-Verse, but Netflix has added the Spectacular Spider-Man animated series. This makes me very happy since only saw most of the first season and none of the second when it first aired, and I've been dying to find it streaming some where so I can finally see all of it.

I was disappointed to find it wasn't on Disney+, so I'm glad it's finally someplace where I can see it again (though I'm currently pausing my Netflix subscription). It was from Greg Weisman, who previously did Gargoyles and subsequently did Young Justice, and it has his characteristic smart writing with intricate continuity. It also added to his trend of getting his shows cancelled way too soon, a streak only broken when YJ was revived.

SSM's cancellation was particularly frustrating because it was a result of Disney buying Marvel. To retain the Spider-Man movie rights, Sony gave up the TV rights, and Disney preferred to start over with their own Spidey cartoon (the watchable but inferior Ultimate Spider-Man) rather than continuing SSM. So it was doing fine in the ratings, but it got killed by corporate politics, and that sucked.

Never cared for SSM's character designs, though. Really weird noses...
 
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