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Sony Spider-Verse discussion thread

fireproof78 said:
People to stop watching them.
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People did stop watching them. Did you not see the box office returns for Morbius?

Of course then others will complain "You're not allowed to say anything about this film/franchise because you listened to critical & viewer reviews and used your own judgement from the trailers and talent involved to decide not to watch it because it looked terrible and never watched it!"
 
wayoung said:
People did stop watching them. Did you not see the box office returns for Morbius?
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I had not interest in Morbius so I did not track it. It's a character that is the shittiest of shit in a franchise where that is saying something.

So, good. Finally, thank you for not actually watching it!

wayoung said:
Of course then others will complain "You're not allowed to say anything about this film/franchise because you listened to critical & viewer reviews and used your own judgement from the trailers and talent involved to decide not to watch it because it looked terrible and never watched it!"
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Ok.

I didn't watch Morbius either. I didn't watch Spider-man: Home Away from Home or whatever it was called. I didn't watch the Amazing Spider-man. So, I guess I don't get to comment.

Mr. Adventure said:
You could always stop watching this thread.

I know that sounds snotty but how is it different in principle from all the gatekeeping?
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And miss out on all the amazing discussion of my beloved character Spider-man? I suffer for my favorites!

More a matter of I like encouraging different perspectives and opinions. Because right now bitching and moaning is not working.
 
Turtletrekker said:
Kevin Feige reportedly advised Sony not to get too far ahead of themselves in terms of establishing a shared universe, and I seem to recall that he's offered that advice to them before, but as before they seem to be ignoring it.
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Sage advice. I would advise pretty much any Hollywood studio to not do the MCU model.
 
Turtletrekker said:
Kevin Feige reportedly advised Sony not to get too far ahead of themselves in terms of establishing a shared universe, and I seem to recall that he's offered that advice to them before, but as before they seem to be ignoring it.
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Not just Sony, Remember Universal's "Dark Universe"? Or the plans for a Valiant Comics universe?
 
Yeah, a lot of the studios that have attempted to emulate the MCU seem to overlook and emulate the part where they took 6 movies to build up to a major crossover, all while making sure each and every movie actually had a story of it's own to tell with the connective stuff either being very peripheral (like Coulson recurring in a few of them) or relegated it to post credit scenes.

They all seem way too excited to get to the part where all the money magically appears that they don't take the time to lay any kind of solid foundation.

In this day and age, the best approach for anyone even hoping to attempt something like this is to do everything they can to 1) hide the fact that the movies are connected as much as possible, 2) certainly don't announce that they're making such an attempt, 3) make sure every single movie in the lead up is as good as it can be.
You'll get way more buzz if you develop a fanbase and let them feel like figuring stuff out with any stray clues of connectivity than you would blearing it from the rooftops.
 
Reverend said:
Yeah, a lot of the studios that have attempted to emulate the MCU seem to overlook and emulate the part where they took 6 movies to build up to a major crossover, all while making sure each and every movie actually had a story of it's own to tell with the connective stuff either being very peripheral (like Coulson recurring in a few of them) or relegated it to post credit scenes.

They all seem way too excited to get to the part where all the money magically appears that they don't take the time to lay any kind of solid foundation.

In this day and age, the best approach for anyone even hoping to attempt something like this is to do everything they can to 1) hide the fact that the movies are connected as much as possible, 2) certainly don't announce that they're making such an attempt, 3) make sure every single movie in the lead up is as good as it can be.
You'll get way more buzz if you develop a fanbase and let them feel like figuring stuff out with any stray clues of connectivity than you would blearing it from the rooftops.
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There are other valid ways to attempt the development of a Shared Continuity Universe besides the slow-burn approach originally taken by Marvel Studios.
 
fireproof78 said:
Sage advice. I would advise pretty much any Hollywood studio to not do the MCU model.
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I don't think Feige was saying they shouldn't follow the MCU model -- on the contrary, by saying they shouldn't get ahead of themselves, he was saying they should follow the MCU model. The MCU started out very slowly, doing standalone movies with only loose connections between them, and only gradually established stronger ties. Their priority was making each individual movie as good as it could be, and that made them worth tying into a larger whole later on. But other studios overlook the importance of laying strong foundations and rush into shared universes prematurely, focusing so much on the whole that they neglect the quality of the individual parts. That's what happened with Amazing Spider-Man 2, with the Tom Cruise The Mummy and the abortive shared universe it was supposed to spawn, and to some extent with the DCEU, which rushed into doing flawed crossovers and flailed until it finally just gave up and focused on strong standalones. Their problem was that they followed what they thought the MCU model was, but they forgot how slowly the MCU actually started out. They tried to rush to the payoff without doing the work to earn it. That's what Feige means when he says not to get ahead of themselves.

The only other franchise that's come close to getting it right is is the Legendary MonsterVerse, which laid its foundations with effective standalone Godzilla and Kong films before doing a team-up movie (although that team-up movie was awful).
 
DigificWriter said:
There are other valid ways to attempt the development of a Shared Continuity Universe besides the slow-burn approach originally taken by Marvel Studios.
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Perhaps but we still haven't seen any actually work. The subtle, slow burn approach as described by Reverend and Christopher remains the gold standard until we someone else come along with another successful model. But I'm not holding my breath. Studios are too damn impatient for that instant golden ticket.
 
^The DCEU didn't work when it was trying to rush into team-up movies. The way it finally started working, as I said, was by abandoning the crossovers and focusing on the individual films. That's the key. A chain is only as strong as its links. The top priority should always be to make each individual film as strong as it can be. A shared continuity is an outgrowth of that, not a substitute for it.
 
Christopher said:
^The DCEU didn't work when it was trying to rush into team-up movies.
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I disagree.

I'd also point out that DC has also found success by leaning into the one thing that always made their comics universe different from Marvel - Elseworlds - with Joker and The Batman, the latter of which is poised to launch its own Shared Continuity Universe.
 
And I disagree. The DC's best films have been the standalones. Birds of Prey (yes, it has connective tissue with Suicide Squad but only to establish the relationship with the Joker which didn't need that film) and Shazam. All of the ones that are trying so very hard to be a shared universe just fall flat because they're too focused on being connected instead of focusing on just telling their own story.
 
StCoop said:
Not just Sony, Remember Universal's "Dark Universe"? Or the plans for a Valiant Comics universe?
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Yup. The MCU is pretty much a once in a life time shot that cannot be done by other companies. And, in my opinion, really shouldn't be done. It's a long play that companies will not tolerate. So, don't fucking try.
 
fireproof78 said:
Yup. The MCU is pretty much a once in a life time shot that cannot be done by other companies. And, in my opinion, really shouldn't be done. It's a long play that companies will not tolerate. So, don't fucking try.
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The first cinematic shared universe was the Universal Monsters in the 1940s. Marvel is not unique. For that matter, the Arrowverse is just as successful a shared universe as the MCU is, or at least it was until the recent changes to The CW. DC/WB's television division figured it out while the movie division was still flailing.

In any category of human achievement, you'll find more failed attempts than successful ones. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying.
 
The problem isn't that the other studios want to make shared universes, it's that Sony repeatedly has shown they're not willing to do it properly.

The Arrowverse shows did it right by focusing on a good starter show and then started expanding. But movies like the Tom Cruise Mummy and Amazing Spider-Man 2 kept trying to shove all the setup into those films rather than take their time.

So far, the reason why the Venom movies are still watchable (barely) is because they're taking their time in that regard. As messy as Venom 2 was, it wasn't because of the shared universe which didn't rear it's head till a post-credit scene.
 
Christopher said:
The first cinematic shared universe was the Universal Monsters in the 1940s. Marvel is not unique. For that matter, the Arrowverse is just as successful a shared universe as the MCU is, or at least it was until the recent changes to The CW. DC/WB's television division figured it out while the movie division was still flailing.

In any category of human achievement, you'll find more failed attempts than successful ones. But that doesn't mean it isn't worth trying.
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So? I'm not saying don't do shared universe. I'm saying don't do MCU phases over the top absurdity.
 
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