Something that really doesn't make sense in Voyager

[Anwar]

And why does the holodeck have a different power grid to begin with... it is one of the most inconsequential systems on an entire damn starship.

Because Jeri Taylor needed a bulls*** justification to tell holonovel stories.

 

[BillJ]

^^I don't think it violates them considering the Enterprise & Intrepid are two completely different ships, designed in different eras. What it means is the Voyager has a design flaw compared to the Enterprise.

But all things being equal, it's a change that makes no sense.

 

[CoveTom]

Let’s see if I grok where we’re going with this. That practically unlimited but untappable holodeck power supply is used for creating and manipulating holomatter. The holodeck can also replicate common matter, but when it replicates common matter it uses a replicator system that uses main ship power, instead of the holodeck’s power.

That would make sense, except that we know that it's not just food that's real replicated material on the holodeck. We know that a lot of the objects that people interact with on the holodeck are "real." Look at this conversation between Riker and Data from "Encounter at Farpoint":

DATA: This woodland pattern is quite popular, sir. Perhaps because it duplicates Earth so well. Coming here almost makes me feel human myself.
RIKER: I didn't believe these simulations could be this real.
DATA: Much of it is real, sir. If the transporters can convert our bodies to an energy beam, then back to the original pattern again
RIKER: Yes, of course. And these rocks and vegetation have much simpler patterns.
DATA: Correct, sir.

Clearly, they're saying that things like the rocks and vegetation have been replicated and are "real." But if that's true, then a great deal of the objects on Voyager's holodeck would be replicated as well. Which means that either (a) the holodeck is constantly pulling power from the ship's main replicator systems -- the same systems that use so much power they have to be rationed when it comes to food; or (b) the holodeck replicators are part of the holodeck's independent power system, in which case there's no reason they couldn't routinely produce food for the crew.

 

[exodus]

^^I don't think it violates them considering the Enterprise & Intrepid are two completely different ships, designed in different eras. What it means is the Voyager has a design flaw compared to the Enterprise.

But all things being equal, it's a change that makes no sense.

Just like replicators.
It's a plot device they never meant for us to dwell on.
What can I say?

 

[exodus]

Let’s see if I grok where we’re going with this. That practically unlimited but untappable holodeck power supply is used for creating and manipulating holomatter. The holodeck can also replicate common matter, but when it replicates common matter it uses a replicator system that uses main ship power, instead of the holodeck’s power.

That would make sense, except that we know that it's not just food that's real replicated material on the holodeck. We know that a lot of the objects that people interact with on the holodeck are "real." Look at this conversation between Riker and Data from "Encounter at Farpoint":

DATA: This woodland pattern is quite popular, sir. Perhaps because it duplicates Earth so well. Coming here almost makes me feel human myself.
RIKER: I didn't believe these simulations could be this real.
DATA: Much of it is real, sir. If the transporters can convert our bodies to an energy beam, then back to the original pattern again
RIKER: Yes, of course. And these rocks and vegetation have much simpler patterns.
DATA: Correct, sir.

Clearly, they're saying that things like the rocks and vegetation have been replicated and are "real." But if that's true, then a great deal of the objects on Voyager's holodeck would be replicated as well. Which means that either (a) the holodeck is constantly pulling power from the ship's main replicator systems -- the same systems that use so much power they have to be rationed when it comes to food; or (b) the holodeck replicators are part of the holodeck's independent power system, in which case there's no reason they couldn't routinely produce food for the crew.

Yeah, there is.
Anything replicated on the holodeck besides anything you actually consume gets recycled back into the the replicator.(even food you don't finish eating, gets cycled back into it) Due to it being recycled, you're putting back in what you took out. With food, you are consuming it. So you're not putting anything back into the replicator, so you're depleting your supply. If you've got 150 crewmen eating 3 meals a day, then you're not going to have enough molecular energy left to replace something because you not putting anything back into it to replace that used material.

 

[BillJ]

Let’s see if I grok where we’re going with this. That practically unlimited but untappable holodeck power supply is used for creating and manipulating holomatter. The holodeck can also replicate common matter, but when it replicates common matter it uses a replicator system that uses main ship power, instead of the holodeck’s power.

That would make sense, except that we know that it's not just food that's real replicated material on the holodeck. We know that a lot of the objects that people interact with on the holodeck are "real." Look at this conversation between Riker and Data from "Encounter at Farpoint":

DATA: This woodland pattern is quite popular, sir. Perhaps because it duplicates Earth so well. Coming here almost makes me feel human myself.
RIKER: I didn't believe these simulations could be this real.
DATA: Much of it is real, sir. If the transporters can convert our bodies to an energy beam, then back to the original pattern again
RIKER: Yes, of course. And these rocks and vegetation have much simpler patterns.
DATA: Correct, sir.

Clearly, they're saying that things like the rocks and vegetation have been replicated and are "real." But if that's true, then a great deal of the objects on Voyager's holodeck would be replicated as well. Which means that either (a) the holodeck is constantly pulling power from the ship's main replicator systems -- the same systems that use so much power they have to be rationed when it comes to food; or (b) the holodeck replicators are part of the holodeck's independent power system, in which case there's no reason they couldn't routinely produce food for the crew.

Yeah, there is.
Anything replicated on the holodeck besides anything you actually consume gets recycled back into the the replicator.(even food you don't finish eating, gets cycled back into it) Due to it being recycled, you're putting back in what you took out. With food, you are consuming it. So you're not putting anything back into the replicator, so you're depleting your supply. If you've got 150 crewmen eating 3 meals a day, then you're not going to have enough molecular energy left to replace something because you not putting anything back into it to replace that used material.

Ummm... the replicators supposedly re-use all wastes created by the crew. All waste.

 

[Captrek]

That would make sense, except that we know that it's not just food that's real replicated material on the holodeck. We know that a lot of the objects that people interact with on the holodeck are "real." Look at this conversation between Riker and Data from "Encounter at Farpoint":...

I think that after the first couple of seasons of TNG they switched to a technology that uses less replicated matter and more holomatter.

Which means that either (a) the holodeck is constantly pulling power from the ship's main replicator systems -- the same systems that use so much power they have to be rationed when it comes to food;

That might explain why only the senior staff is ever seen using it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I still think the holodeck was kept running as a vital emotional release for the crew. They had no counselor, so they needed that diversion - otherwise, the knowledge that they may never see home again might have driven them all space-crazy.

Food? They can always find food along the way. Food is easily replaced. Holodecks are unique.

 

[exodus]

That would make sense, except that we know that it's not just food that's real replicated material on the holodeck. We know that a lot of the objects that people interact with on the holodeck are "real." Look at this conversation between Riker and Data from "Encounter at Farpoint":
Clearly, they're saying that things like the rocks and vegetation have been replicated and are "real." But if that's true, then a great deal of the objects on Voyager's holodeck would be replicated as well. Which means that either (a) the holodeck is constantly pulling power from the ship's main replicator systems -- the same systems that use so much power they have to be rationed when it comes to food; or (b) the holodeck replicators are part of the holodeck's independent power system, in which case there's no reason they couldn't routinely produce food for the crew.

Yeah, there is.
Anything replicated on the holodeck besides anything you actually consume gets recycled back into the the replicator.(even food you don't finish eating, gets cycled back into it) Due to it being recycled, you're putting back in what you took out. With food, you are consuming it. So you're not putting anything back into the replicator, so you're depleting your supply. If you've got 150 crewmen eating 3 meals a day, then you're not going to have enough molecular energy left to replace something because you not putting anything back into it to replace that used material.

Ummm... the replicators supposedly re-use all wastes created by the crew. All waste.

Do you poop equal to what you eat?

I still think the holodeck was kept running as a vital emotional release for the crew. They had no counselor, so they needed that diversion - otherwise, the knowledge that they may never see home again might have driven them all space-crazy.

Yes, this.
Holodecks are the Bob Hopes and USO's of the future.
Instead of Bob coming to you, he goes with you everywhere.\If Voyager is meant to be a deep space exploration vessel on it's own, the holodecks need to be running for this reason.

 

[Anwar]

It's not like NuBSG was different on this matter. All those random hallucinations people would have? Those were NuBSG's holodecks.

 

[Lord Manitou]

All this fits in with the fact that Holo-material is an Elected Elastic. Besides that it's quite obvious why holo-decks need it's own power supply.

 

[exodus]

^^Is that like Super Elastic Bubble Plastic?

 

[Lord Manitou]

Yes. A super material with all the necessary properties that would satisfy the existence of a holo-deck. This super material would be absolutely dependent on the computers grid. A unique proposal.

 

[The Overlord]

I still think the holodeck was kept running as a vital emotional release for the crew. They had no counselor, so they needed that diversion - otherwise, the knowledge that they may never see home again might have driven them all space-crazy.

Food? They can always find food along the way. Food is easily replaced. Holodecks are unique.

If Tom Paris can be a medic with just a few bio chem courses, I think Janeway could have promoted some Ensign with a minor in psychology into a councilor.

Also frankly almost every other system on the ship system is more important then the Holodeck, how is the Holodeck more important then weapons or shields? Staving off space madness would be off little benefit, if lack of shields and weapons allows the Vidiians to come aboard and harvest everyone's organs. Plus they may reach an area of space where there is no life at all, not even vegetation and if they have no power for the replicators in that sector of space, they would starve and concerns over "space madness" would be irrelevant.

The point is its hard to see the drama of Voyager being far away from home, with limited resources, when they can still go on silly adventures in the Holodeck.

 

[exodus]

I still think the holodeck was kept running as a vital emotional release for the crew. They had no counselor, so they needed that diversion - otherwise, the knowledge that they may never see home again might have driven them all space-crazy.

Food? They can always find food along the way. Food is easily replaced. Holodecks are unique.

If Tom Paris can be a medic with just a few bio chem courses, I think Janeway could have promoted some Ensign with a minor in psychology into a councilor.

Also frankly almost every other system on the ship system is more important then the Holodeck, how is the Holodeck more important then weapons or shields? Staving off space madness would be off little benefit, if lack of shields and weapons allows the Vidiians to come aboard and harvest everyone's organs. Plus they may reach an area of space where there is no life at all, not even vegetation and if they have no power for the replicators in that sector of space, they would starve and concerns over "space madness" would be irrelevant.

The point is its hard to see the drama of Voyager being far away from home, with limited resources, when they can still go on silly adventures in the Holodeck.

Assuming there was still a crewman with minor in psychology onboard that didn't die when being taken Caretaker. I'm doubting anybody in the Maquis had one and the EMH said he only has a passing understanding of it. So being that there wasn't one, I'm guessing that's why B'Elanna always had to turn to Neelix or Tuvok in dealing with her anger issues. Her other form of outlet was the holodeck.



The Equinox had almost nothing, yet where did Capt. Ransom go to escape, plan, think and keep what little sanity he had left?

His own little portable holodeck.

As we also saw, the members of his crew that did were all suffering for post tramatic stress disorder.
So it's not like they didn't show us during the series exactly why they need the holodecks running. Plus if the ships invaded, holodecks can be used as tactical diversions like in "First Contact", "Macrocosm" & "Flesh & Blood".

 

[BillJ]

...and the EMH said he only has a passing understanding of it.

Which makes no sense based on the fact that we watch the EMH learn practically anything it wanted to.

 

[exodus]

...and the EMH said he only has a passing understanding of it.

Which makes no sense based on the fact that we watch the EMH learn practically anything it wanted to.

Considering the EMH didn't have a bedside manner, an ego and is the only one that would last the journey for generations to come. He probably didn't want to be burdened listening to the crew bitch and moan. Can you blame him? Can you imagine having to sit and listen to Harry Kim's problems..................and then maybe even his children?

 

[SchwEnt]

How are holodecks essential to crew well-being and morale? Because they provide R&R?

We don't have holodecks today and we get along just fine.
Hell, TOS didn't have them either (TAS aside). Kirk and crew managed just fine. Play some poker or tri-dimensional chess or watch a movie or LCARS solitaire or Space Monopoly with friends.

Is VOY crew so feeble minded they will suffer mental anguish without holodeck fantasies?

 

[BillJ]

Is VOY crew so feeble minded they will suffer mental anguish without holodeck fantasies?

Yes.

 

[exodus]

How are holodecks essential to crew well-being and morale? Because they provide R&R?

We don't have holodecks today and we get along just fine.
Hell, TOS didn't have them either (TAS aside). Kirk and crew managed just fine. Play some poker or tri-dimensional chess or watch a movie or LCARS solitaire or Space Monopoly with friends.

If you've been given a PS3, why would you go back to playing with wooden blocks?

How many of us could deal with life now that we've gotten used to labtops, iPhones, Facebook, X-Box360 or a GPS? It's like asking our children or our childrens children to play a board game like "Stratigo" after playing "Call of Duty" for the past 10 years. B'Elanna thought Tom was a little wacked out for wanting a TV set.