Something missing?

[TrueQ]

So, after watching some episodes of TOS; I've watched up to "Arena", I get the feeling that it's not as good as I expected it to be. I mean, I may be stupid and silly and I may not be getting it, but I returned to watching Voyager now. Did you ever get this feeling? That TOS is "overrated"?...
P.S.: I pray you won't kill me for saying all this stuff.

 

[Forbin]

No.

And ten demerits for thinking V'ger is better. Than anything.

 

[FalTorPan]

People like whatever they like, and they dislike whatever they dislike. It's okay not to like TOS, but it's far better to like it.

 

[KDoug]

The original series had its ups and downs. I do think that some people look at it with rose-colored glasses and remember its ups more than its downs. But when it was good, it could be REALLY good.

As for Arena itself, one weak point in the episode for me is that Kirk quickly forgets that the Metron told him that he was to be provided with a translation device so that he could communicate with the Gorn captain. So, when he sees an unfamiliar device on his belt, what does he think to himself? Not, "oh, yeah, that must be the translator." Instead, he thinks to himself, "ah, I've never seen this before, but it must be a recorder. Yep. Gotta be it. I'll just use it to record my progress, because there's nothing else that it could possibly be."

Other than that, I think it's a good TOS episode. Not great, but good.

 

[Mallory]

FalTorPan said:
People like whatever they like, and they dislike whatever they dislike. It's okay not to like TOS, but it's far better to like it.

FalTorPan is right TrueQ. And I don't think anyone here is going to rip you to shreds for not liking what you've seen. All of us have different tastes and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[Outpost4]

We original Trekkies are used to being dismissed for our love of the series.

I'm glad you're giving it a chance, TrueQ.

Try Balance of Terror and City On The Edge Of Forever before you give up.

 

[Finn]

I'm far from a TOS fan, but some episodes have grown on me as I catch them on cable. Also, I'd think you'd be in more danger saying Trip died, in the Enterprise forum.

 

[McCoy]

On average (reality shows not withstanding), the sophistication of television and its audience has increased over the years. TOS is a product of a simpler time. It was breakthrough television then, but pales in comparison with, say, nuBSG in the areas of character complexity and unconventional plot development.

I love TOS (as evidenced by my screen name and avatar), but I recognize that, due to its relative simplicity, it wouldn't be much more than a teen show if it were being produced today. I think perhaps the esteem we hold it in is more nostalgic than we might admit. But regardless, it deserves the respect it is accorded because of its sheer influence on the culture and technology of the western world. Few other shows, even modern ones, can make a similar claim. And that includes all subsequent Trek.

 

[Outpost4]

Finn said:
I'd think you'd be in more danger saying Trip died, in the Enterprise forum.

He didn't?

 

[KDoug]

Outpost4 said:

Finn said:
I'd think you'd be in more danger saying Trip died, in the Enterprise forum.

He didn't?

Hey, I'm fairly new here and even I know about the "Not. Dead." movement! Also, they brought him back in the books.

 

[mahler5]

Voyager is landmark television. Woe to those who are in denial of such greatness. Bow to the mighty construct we call Voyager. Worship Voyager.......Voy....a.....jur.
Voyager 6. Oh My

 

[MANT!]

Mallory said:

FalTorPan said:
People like whatever they like, and they dislike whatever they dislike. It's okay not to like TOS, but it's far better to like it.

FalTorPan is right TrueQ. And I don't think anyone here is going to rip you to shreds for not liking what you've seen. All of us have different tastes and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Hey Mallory...Speak for yourself!! I will phaser ANYONE who cannot bask in the greatness that is TOS...


Seriously though, TOS is actually rather spotty overall but remember,ALL Trek is spotty...as is ANY TV show...there are some good episodes..and crap.... I find that most modern TV is crap...but maybe it's just me...


You go on liking Voyager...I'll go on liking TOS... but remember what spawned Voyager...and how far we have come.. :thumbsup:

 

[mahler5]

LAndmark must see television.

 

[Mallory]

KDoug said:
Also, they brought him back in the books.

Yeah, but all those are set in the timeframe before TATV.

 

[Wingsley]

Lest we forget, if TOS were somehow lesser in quality, worthiness of being remembered, or just plain not as entertaining/satisfying...

... it would not be on the air today.

... it would not be remastered. (CBS/Paramount made a decision to invest in that.)

... it would not be for sale on HD-DVD.

... we would not be talking about it.


It is easy to criticize TOS as 1960's television. It was made 40 years ago, after all. And, lest we forget, it was the pioneer. Without TOS, there would be no "Star Trek universe" to provide a platform for TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. Also, consider this: what do you think peoples' reactions will be to Bermanian TREK 20+ years from today?

 

[Miri9]

We like TOS because it was a piece of growing up too...episodes you loved as a kid like "Spock's Brain" or "Miri" are silly, but episodes like "The Conscience of the King" which you hated as a kid you really enjoy as an adult. It the same way when I would try to watch something like Abbott and Costello - never thought it was funny, but it spoke to a different generation - TOS is somewhat like that. Timeless to some degree, but still an ode to an era.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

TrueQ said:
So, after watching some episodes of TOS; I've watched up to "Arena", I get the feeling that it's not as good as I expected it to be. I mean, I may be stupid and silly and I may not be getting it, but I returned to watching Voyager now. Did you ever get this feeling? That TOS is "overrated"?...
P.S.: I pray you won't kill me for saying all this stuff.

The virtues and accomplishments of TOS have been exaggerated beyond belief by fandom. That's what fans do. Elvis' fans seem to think he was some kind of saint.

That said, TOS is one of the two or three best sf series ever aired on American television and nothing nearly so influential on the genre or the public's perception of the genre has been created for television since then.

It does show its age, inevitably.

 

[Kegek]

Starship Polaris said:
The virtues and accomplishments of TOS have been exaggerated beyond belief by fandom.

True.

That said, TOS is one of the two or three best sf series ever aired on American television

Also true.

TrueQ, though I'm a TOS-TNG-DS9 man myself, all that really matters to be a Star Trek fan is to be obsessed enough about one aspect of the franchise to the point you'd actually post on a Trek message board. If there's one thing this board evinces, it's that there is no monolithic opinion about the franchise and no position is sacrosanct enough for someone else not to trash it.

 

[jimbtnp2]

McCoy said:
On average (reality shows not withstanding), the sophistication of television and its audience has increased over the years. TOS is a product of a simpler time. It was breakthrough television then, but pales in comparison with, say, nuBSG in the areas of character complexity and unconventional plot development.

I love TOS (as evidenced by my screen name and avatar), but I recognize that, due to its relative simplicity, it wouldn't be much more than a teen show if it were being produced today. I think perhaps the esteem we hold it in is more nostalgic than we might admit. But regardless, it deserves the respect it is accorded because of its sheer influence on the culture and technology of the western world. Few other shows, even modern ones, can make a similar claim. And that includes all subsequent Trek.

could not disagree more, TOS is far more sophisticated than nuBSG, which I agree is more conveluted and cramed with endless detail, does that make it more sophisticated, as JLP says "Hardly"

TOS is almost movie like in quality at its best and great TV at all but a couple, hence its longevity

 

[jimbtnp2]

Wingsley said:
Lest we forget, if TOS were somehow lesser in quality, worthiness of being remembered, or just plain not as entertaining/satisfying...

... it would not be on the air today.

... it would not be remastered. (CBS/Paramount made a decision to invest in that.)

... it would not be for sale on HD-DVD.

... we would not be talking about it.


It is easy to criticize TOS as 1960's television. It was made 40 years ago, after all. And, lest we forget, it was the pioneer. Without TOS, there would be no "Star Trek universe" to provide a platform for TNG, DS9, VOY or ENT. Also, consider this: what do you think peoples' reactions will be to Bermanian TREK 20+ years from today?

well said and right on all points