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Something I just finally realized about Generations

Superman

Fleet Captain
Okay, for years, I've maligned the fact that this movie destroyed Kirk and added a poor coda to the TOS movies.

And also for years, I had scores of other ideas for this film, including a few that hewed closely to the film's story and in some cases, built from it.

But never did it occur to me, until a few days ago, how truly, painfully easy it would have been to make this movie work from the get-go.

First of all, we all know that Nimoy and Kelley wouldn't have anything to do with it because their screentime was next to nil. I don't blame them, esp. when you see the lines and roles they would have played through Scotty and Pavel.

So here's the thing: why in the hell didn't Braga and Moore build on what TNG had established about Spock and McCoy, and used this to make the TNG section of the film a true crossover of the generations?

It's simple: Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are on the E-B for her launch. Everything happens as it did in the film, all of this stuff is actually pretty good. Then Kirk "dies," and the 23rd century part ends.

But when we flash forward to the 24th century, the E-D command staff is still celebrating Worf's promotion.

But instead of a communique about the deaths of Renee and Gerard, it's Starfleet Command. Ambassador Spock has requested emergency extraction from Romulus. Knowing his past experience with Spock, SC sends Picard and the Enterprise to Romulus.

Before the E-D can get Spock, SC orders them to DS9 to pick up a special advisor on the mission, a man who has learned through his own connections of Spock's request: Admiral Leonard McCoy. McCoy goes aboard the E-D not so much to help Picard, but "to find out just what the hell that cunning little Vulcan is up to this time." McCoy also demands, in a nice little reversal of a scene in TVH, that his "assistant," one Captain Montgomery Scott, join the mission.

Once on Romulus, the E-D crew extracts Spock. Spock refuses to disclose the nature of his mission, even to McCoy and Scotty. Later, when Spock gives orders for the E-D to proceed to specific coordinates, Picard refuses without further details. Spock ignores Picard and in a homage to his actions in "The Menagerie," hacks the E-D's computer and locks in the course to his coordinates.

Incense, Picard calls a senior staff meeting with Spock under security escort. Spock reveals that he knows Jim Kirk is alive. It turns out that for almost eight centuries, Spock has wrestled with the sense that Kirk is somehow alive, somewhere.

Picard is doubtful, whereas McCoy is outright insensitive, accusing Spock of finally giving in to his human side in his old age. Scotty is torn, but feels that if there is an even a chance, they have to take it. Picard disagrees, but Spock leans on their mind-meld experience years ago.

Picard reluctantly agrees, and they proceed to rendezvous with the Nexus, where Spock believes they will find Kirk.

From here on out, it's very simple. They retrieve Kirk, but the Romulans or some other baddies intervene, there's a big battle, Kirk and his crewmates save the day, there's a truly classic meeting of the generations, and Spock, McCoy, and Scotty leave at the end of the film promising to teach Kirk about the 24th century.

Isn't that easy? Is it just me?

\S/
 
Ugh. Not my cup of tea. It's trying much to hard to include the TOS crew, not "pass the baton" as the film was intended to do.
 
The only reason why Spock and McCoy's roles weren't expanded upon were because, frankly, Berman had nothing much else in mind than to hit some deadlines. Which is always a poor way to handle a story anyway.

But actually, the way you described it, Superman, is far from easy. The plot's too convoluted (then again, so was Generations, when it didn't need to be) and it relies on too much TNG continuity to be appealing to non-Trekkie fans. Yes, that's right, non-Trekkies came to see this film, too. That's how it opened at the #1 spot. McCoy was too covered in makeup, and the usual moviegoer would have no way real knowledge as to just how Scotty looks like he never aged. The movie can go out of its way to explain it, but a movie should never go out of its way if it hopes to maintain tight narrative cohesion.

I bring up First Contact as an example. We get the basics of Zephram Cochrane -- a TOS character -- because he's the whole reason why Star Trek can happen and thus vital to the story. Yet, the TNG crew don't tell us about his future in TOS because, frankly, it would bog down the story with not much relevance to any other character out there.
 
I seem to recall DeForest Kelley saying he hoped he never had to put on the heavy Admiral McCoy makeup again from "Farpoint". Also, to have Nimoy participate in more than a brief cameo, his salary would have to equal Shatner's. They have a "favoured nations" clause in their contracts. The casting budget couldn't have afforded everyone.
 
Generations does few things I don't understand. Better yet, it DOESN'T do certain things, and I just don't understand WHY.

There's two major examples in my mind:

- We never get to see Picard and Kirk on the bridge of the Enterprise at the same time. Seriously, this is a moment I felt just should have been in the movie. If you're passing the torch, I just feel that's something you would need to do in the movie. And it wouldn't have been that hard to do, really.

- The Nexus. Sometimes the writers seem keen on making things harder for themselves than necessary. I always felt the whole Nexus things was convoluted. Also, due to its nature it made all the actions seem pretty silly, really. As others have pointed out there would have been so many FAR MORE sensible points in time and places for Kirk and Picard to come out of the Nexus and stop Soran. It just doesn't make sense the way it is. If you're going to have some kind of time travelling, make it as simple as possible. DON'T make it a central focus of the film the way it happened here. The Nexus almost becomes a character in its own right which simply creates problems IMHO.
 
Frankly, nearly any change to Generations would have made it a better story. I don't think adding all of the TOS cast would have been a useful thing to do, but your story idea is intriguing.

And please, could you just take Kirk's body somewhere else instead of stacking rocks on him on a god-forsaken planet? That alone would have improved my opinion of the film.

It turns out that for almost eight centuries, Spock has wrestled with the sense that Kirk is somehow alive, somewhere.

Spock must be really old by this time. ;) Sorry...had to.
 
- We never get to see Picard and Kirk on the bridge of the Enterprise at the same time. Seriously, this is a moment I felt just should have been in the movie. If you're passing the torch, I just feel that's something you would need to do in the movie. And it wouldn't have been that hard to do, really.

It's even allowed for in that the Enterprise-D can separate. How cool would it have been to have had Picard conducting a diplomatic negotiation from the saucer section while Kirk commanded the battle bridge into combat? Each could have played to his own strengths, and it would have had the potential to be a kick-ass sequence that audiences (general audiences even, not just Trek fans) would still be talking about.
 
Heres a way to increase the screen time for Mccoy and Spock. They're both on the Enterprise-B with Kirk. Then again "McCoy" and "Spock" are seen with Kirk in the Nexus. Oviously they wouldn't be the real McCoy and Spock, but it would increase there time on screen.
 
Everything in Trek after Generations is just a fantasy played out by In-Nexus Picard anyway so...

Hey! That actually makes me feel better about Star Trek XI!
 
Love the movie or not, but at least it still holds up moderately well and is far from the worst TNG-crew movie. I'd have preferred Spock and McCoy be on the 1701-B for her launch at the start of the film, but Nimoy and Kelley felt that STAR TREK VI had been their proper, classy sendoff and that's why they turned it down and Doohan and Koenig stepped in in fairly fine form.
 
Your idea is interesting, Superman, but I'm still of the school of thought that the baton had been passed plenty of times before Nov. '94 — De Kelley's appearance in "Farpoint"; meaty guest roles for Mark Lenard, Nimoy, and Doohan; the fact that TNG racked up twice as many episodes as TOS and was hugely popular in its own right — and they didn't really need to do it yet again.
 
They should have used Kirk in either Too Short A Season or Yesterday's Enterprise. There is no way Generations could ever live up to the epic crossover.
 
They should have used Kirk in either Too Short A Season or Yesterday's Enterprise. There is no way Generations could ever live up to the epic crossover.

At least Roger Ebert and Leonard Maltin still liked the movie, even if one or the other said the eventual Kirk-Picard meeting and crossover was like a cheesy old 40s serial plotline in execution. They both found Shatner to be more entertaining and rewarding a character than Stewart.
 
They should have used Kirk in either Too Short A Season or Yesterday's Enterprise. There is no way Generations could ever live up to the epic crossover.

At least Roger Ebert and Leonard Maltin still liked the movie, even if one or the other said the eventual Kirk-Picard meeting and crossover was like a cheesy old 40s serial plotline in execution. They both found Shatner to be more entertaining and rewarding a character than Stewart.

That was before Picard started to become a capable onscreen hero. They both praised him in First Contact and gave it a much more respectable score.

(And that was also before Insurrection and Nemesis, when the movies overdid Picard as an action hero, and Ebert and Maltin shot those flicks down :) )
 
- We never get to see Picard and Kirk on the bridge of the Enterprise at the same time. Seriously, this is a moment I felt just should have been in the movie. If you're passing the torch, I just feel that's something you would need to do in the movie. And it wouldn't have been that hard to do, really.

It's even allowed for in that the Enterprise-D can separate. How cool would it have been to have had Picard conducting a diplomatic negotiation from the saucer section while Kirk commanded the battle bridge into combat? Each could have played to his own strengths, and it would have had the potential to be a kick-ass sequence that audiences (general audiences even, not just Trek fans) would still be talking about.

Yeah, I think something like that could have really, really well.
 
Yes, almost ANYTHING would have been better than what we got. Personally I would have forgiven a lot of the movie as it was if:

A. The DIDN'T kill Kirk
B. They DIDN'T destroy the Enterprise D.
 
It's even allowed for in that the Enterprise-D can separate. How cool would it have been to have had Picard conducting a diplomatic negotiation from the saucer section while Kirk commanded the battle bridge into combat? Each could have played to his own strengths, and it would have had the potential to be a kick-ass sequence that audiences (general audiences even, not just Trek fans) would still be talking about.

Now THAT'S a damn good idea. If Kirk had to sacrifice himself, it should've been at the helm.
 
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