Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously)

[William Leisner]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I'm glad to hear that your compliments apparently outnumber your complaints, Brendan. The complaints you raise are certainly legitimate ones. Picard took a huge gamble dragging Barrile to Pacifica, and essentially deciding to ask forgiveness rather than permission.

I am sorry you saw the resolution as an Admirals-Are-Idiots situation, though. I dislike the Evil Starfleet Admiral stereotype as well, and what I attempted here was to have an admiral recognizing that he's not infallible, and that having his orders slavishly followed is not the most important thing. Akaar obviously could not condone the kidnapping of a governor, regardless of how that action resolved itself, and this definitely does paint the results of Picard's actions a darkish shade of gray. But at the end, he does recognize that the admiralty failed to recognize where the system -- and perhaps even the fabric of the Federation -- was starting to break down.

Thanks again for the comments.

 

[Spacehamster]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

The grim situation at the refugee camp was also effectively conveyed. It's hard, given the starship/starbase centered nature of Trek, to make the planetary devastation from the Borg invasion feel as real as it should, and Losing the Peace does as much as any book could to bring that across.

I think it was hard for me as a reader to appreciate the sheer scale of the destruction until it was brought down to an individual level. It's all very well to say that 110 billion people (sic?) were killed, but sequences like Tuvok's son on Deneva, or the refugee camps here, make me appreciate and empathise with the situation much better.

I appear to be the only person so far who's felt this way, but I thought Picard's behavior in kidnapping the politicians and flying off to Pacifica was obnoxious and a little hypocritical. Viewed in the light of the Star Trek cliche that Admirals Are Idiots, it makes sense, and in a way all comes out well because the politicians Learn A Valuable Lesson.

One issue raised within 'Losing the Peace' was that because poverty had been stamped out within the 24th Century, no one could empathize with the situation the refugees were facing. Picard and his officers believed that such an extraordinary situation called for extraordinary measures. They also admitted that they may have underestimated the consequences of their actions.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

It's all very well to say that 110 billion people (sic?) were killed

It's reached 110 Billion? I knew 63 Billion was very conservative, and fully expected it to rise significantly. How close to final is that figure?

 

[Brendan Moody]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

^Sixty-three billion is the only figure I recall being mention in LtP, but I have missed a larger number.

I am sorry you saw the resolution as an Admirals-Are-Idiots situation, though. I dislike the Evil Starfleet Admiral stereotype as well, and what I attempted here was to have an admiral recognizing that he's not infallible, and that having his orders slavishly followed is not the most important thing. Akaar obviously could not condone the kidnapping of a governor, regardless of how that action resolved itself, and this definitely does paint the results of Picard's actions a darkish shade of gray. But at the end, he does recognize that the admiralty failed to recognize where the system -- and perhaps even the fabric of the Federation -- was starting to break down.

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts. I didn't think you would go in for a one-sided Stupid Admiral situation.

There's certainly a difficult balance for the characters to strike with regard to the chain of command in the aftermath of the Borg invasion. The dearth of resources would seem to require strict oversight from the admiralty, who have a sense of the larger scheme of events and can apportion ships and personnel in such a way as to keep any of the emergencies from boiling over into a full-fledged crisis. But on the other hand, their distance from the action makes it difficult for them to assess exactly how close particular emergencies are to that boiling point.

 

[William Leisner]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

^ Indeed. And throw on top of that Starfleet's own loss of personnel and resources, as well as the resignation of their C-in-C. The entire Federation is off balance, and there's no magic reset button to push and set everything back to normal.

 

[William Leisner]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

It's all very well to say that 110 billion people (sic?) were killed

It's reached 110 Billion? I knew 63 Billion was very conservative, and fully expected it to rise significantly. How close to final is that figure?

63 billion is, I believe, the figure Dave/President Bacco gave at the end of Lost Souls, and I don't recall upping that estimate in LtP.

 

[VDCNI]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Just read this in a rush last night and really enjoyed it. Good to see Beverly and Geordi and I even liked the Worf bits and he's never been a favourite of mine. It was interesting to the scenes between Worf & Geordi and Picard & Geordi as those relationships were never really touched on very often in the show. Now that we've lost Data, Riker & Troi there is certainly scope to explore those neglected relationships - you could add Beverly & Worf and Beverly & Geordi into that as well.

At first I had a few issues with just how badly the people of Pacifica and elsewhere were dealing with the crisis but the idea that the Federation had been so stable for so long that its citizens were unable to truly understand the scope of what has happened was a good one and made a lot of sense.

Even if the Thyphon Pact storyline doesn't revolve around war the last scenes with Akaar seem to suggest things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. I don't have a huge problem with the Star Trek universe become a harder place but I hope it doesn't fall into the trap that DC & Marvel have of late with one world shattering event following another. I know Titan & Voyager will be out there exploring but I hope the TNG crew get the chance to partake in stories that aren't all about the Borg aftermath & the Federation's political situation at some point in the same way DS9 had lots of other types of stories while the war was going on.

 

[DEWLine]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

It's reached 110 Billion? I knew 63 Billion was very conservative, and fully expected it to rise significantly. How close to final is that figure?

63 billion is, I believe, the figure Dave/President Bacco gave at the end of Lost Souls, and I don't recall upping that estimate in LtP.

Given the scale of the whole invasion, I'd be very surprised to not see the final "all of local space" death toll revised upwards in the novels and spinoff projects to come...and that the figure will climb past 110 billion.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Given the scale of the whole invasion, I'd be very surprised to not see the final "all of local space" death toll revised upwards in the novels and spinoff projects to come...and that the figure will climb past 110 billion.

Actually, I think that a lot of the time, it's the other way around -- the initial death-toll estimates after a disaster tend to be higher rather than lower, because people listed as missing and believed dead may simply not have been found yet, or because the different groups involved in counting the dead may have overlapping counts so the same fatalities get counted more than once, or because of over-reporting by people who fear the worst, or because of rumors being mistaken for hard data. At least, that's the way it was after September 11, 2001 -- the initial fatality estimates were a lot higher than the final figures.

 

[fleetcaptain]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

^ I am not a gamer at all, and have never seen the Elite Force 2 shuttlebay. I actually tried to keep the description as generic as possible; if any real image influenced me, it was of the Enterprise-D shuttlebay.

Sorry... I get the feeling I just destroyed a little bit of the magic there...

Nah not at all. It's all good. Just I thought I would ask.

 

[JD]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I know Titan & Voyager will be out there exploring but I hope the TNG crew get the chance to partake in stories that aren't all about the Borg aftermath & the Federation's political situation at some point in the same way DS9 had lots of other types of stories while the war was going on.

I'm actually going to go in the opposite direction here, since we're getting alot of exploration in Voy & TTN, I'm hoping that Next Gen will stick around and deal with what's going on in the Federation. IMO that would be a good way to differentiate TNG from the other series.

 

[nx1701g]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Picked this up earlier tonight. I want to start it but I'm afraid I'm barely awake. I hope to read it tomorrow.

 

[Drizzt]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Does anyone know what comes next for the "Next Generation" series of books? I am about 2/3 of the way through "Losing the Peace". It is a very introspective book, and I am enjoying it thoroughly. It is exactly the kind of 'Trek' story that I enjoy the most..the kind that takes a deep look at the characters, and gives us a glimpse into their souls, as it were.

But, I was just wondering if there was any news on what comes next. I see that there are DS9, Titan, Voyager, and Mirror Universe titles on the horizon. So, are we looking at the next 'Next Gen' book being out until 2010? Just curious. I will be reading them all!

 

[Brendan Moody]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

^We know all the novels scheduled through June 2010, and none of them are TNG books, so it'll be at least that long. It's possible that instead of a TNG novel per se, the Enterprise will be featured in some or all of the books in next year's Typhon Pact miniseries. We'll know more after the announcements at Shore Leave next weekend.

 

[Snaploud]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I enjoyed Losing the Peace. Picard really got a breath of fresh air from Leisner. My favorite captain has been much too moody in the last half dozen or more books. I hope other writers don't let him backtrack into depression.

 

[LaBarre]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Off the big themes for a moment, may I say that I loved what you did redecorating the Captain's Ready Room.

Although I was sad and somewhat perplexed that the Ressikan flute was one of the losses from Mack's destruction.

Considering that the only times we ever saw or read about the flute after Picard's experience on Kataan in The Inner Light placed it in his quarters - Lessons, Starship Mine, and then in the books, last seen when he was on the floor playing away in Destiny, until Beverly busts him - what the hell was he doing with the flute in Ready Room?

I've just re-read the last words of that paragraph and can see where this might go.

Nevertheless, trying to keep it clean, I'm intrigued as to why you decided to do that?

 

[William Leisner]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Off the big themes for a moment, may I say that I loved what you did redecorating the Captain's Ready Room.

Although I was sad and somewhat perplexed that the Ressikan flute was one of the losses from Mack's destruction.

Considering that the only times we ever saw or read about the flute after Picard's experience on Kataan in The Inner Light placed it in his quarters - Lessons, Starship Mine, and then in the books, last seen when he was on the floor playing away in Destiny, until Beverly busts him - what the hell was he doing with the flute in Ready Room?

I've just re-read the last words of that paragraph and can see where this might go.

Nevertheless, trying to keep it clean, I'm intrigued as to why you decided to do that?

You say you were sad when you read the flute was lost. Well, that's why I did it. To provoke a reaction. To show that he lost a lot.

And flutes are quite portable, and can go many, many places you wouldn't expect them to go...

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Off the big themes for a moment, may I say that I loved what you did redecorating the Captain's Ready Room.

Although I was sad and somewhat perplexed that the Ressikan flute was one of the losses from Mack's destruction.

Considering that the only times we ever saw or read about the flute after Picard's experience on Kataan in The Inner Light placed it in his quarters - Lessons, Starship Mine, and then in the books, last seen when he was on the floor playing away in Destiny, until Beverly busts him - what the hell was he doing with the flute in Ready Room?

I've just re-read the last words of that paragraph and can see where this might go.

Nevertheless, trying to keep it clean, I'm intrigued as to why you decided to do that?

You say you were sad when you read the flute was lost. Well, that's why I did it. To provoke a reaction. To show that he lost a lot.

And flutes are quite portable, and can go many, many places you wouldn't expect them to go...

The Mintakan tapestry was lost too, wasn't it?

 

[JD]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Was Picard's RR completely fried in Destiny? I know I remember that happening somewhere, but I can't rember for sure where it was.

 

[Thrawn]

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Well, you can add William Leisner to the list of ST authors I plan to follow religiously. After his Myriad Universes entry, I wasn't very impressed, but this book was just out-god-damn-standing.

I think I liked Beverly and Geordi more in this book than I ever have, and as many have already mentioned it was wonderful to see Picard back to his usual self. And I really have to give credit to the characterization of Kadohata; I was mostly indifferent to her previously, but this really made me love the character, and I sincerely hope we haven't seen the last of her. I was genuinely surprised by her decision to leave.

The only character I still don't like is Chen, but that seems to be down to personal tastes since most other people seem happy with her. I also thought that after so many other plots focusing on death and chaos, the death of her mother just kind of seemed excessive, and didn't really add anything to the book for me. One of my few complaints.

Really, though, despite being almost entirely a character piece, this book to me had far greater importance. It accomplished several things I was really worried about. First, it showed the impact of the Destiny trilogy in a genuine and human way, something that I felt ASD didn't do very well. ASD had the feeling of "well, that sucked, but on to the next thing!" and I'm glad this one got to slow down and really let us feel it. I wish this had come first, instead of waiting until July.

Second, this finally - FINALLY - made the TNG relaunch a series of books that feels worth following. The pre-Destiny ones never really cohered as a series, and in an odd exception for CLB books I felt GTTS was a clumsy attempt to fix that which really didn't work very well. Then Destiny showed promise, but with all the other stuff going on there were some great individual character moments but the crew as a whole didn't really feel much like a unit. But with this, I'm hooked. I see how this dynamic works, I appreciate the characters and their new relationships (especially those great scenes at the beginning between Elfiki & Chen and between Worf & Geordi), I am interested in their mission, and I want to know what happens next.

Finally, and I say this with the sincere disclaimer that this is a matter of taste and not intended as an insult at all, I haven't very much liked Margaret Clark as an editor before this and was harboring some real doubts that she'd be able to keep up the parts of Marco's philosophy that I had appreciated the most. The warmth and complexity he brought to all of the series that he commissioned were essentially the reasons I came back to Treklit, and I was pretty worried that without him it wouldn't be the same. But honestly, this book had more of what I loved about those series than some of the books actually in those series (it certainly beats the pants off the weaker DS9-R entries), and while I'm still a little bit hesitant about a Clark-edited DS9 relaunch or Titan, this has at least shown me that she's still interested in telling these kinds of stories (where main characters change and grow, arcs carry through multiple novels, and real narrative chances are taken - three things the TNG-R and ENT series were seriously lacking until this point). I'm much more confident in her leadership as the line goes forward from here.

All in all, a fantastic job from everyone, authorial and editorial, and I love how interconnected and phenomenal all of the Mack Clean-Up Crew books have been. This is so clearly a love and a passion for everyone involved, and I couldn't be happier with the Trek universe right now.