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Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously)

Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Any insights (read spoilers) you have to offer of the Crusher storyline or (and I admit to being entirely self-serving and single-minded in this request) the baby?

Crusher spends the books on Pacifica helping at the refugee camp, we see some flashbacks to moments of her life with Jack (ie when Wesley is born, when she learns Jack has died) and a couple of insights into what she did when she wasnt in starfleet.

Crusher's never been my favourite character though, so like with Choudhury, I found it a little difficult to care too much about those moments.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Quite possibly the most celebrated and decorated Captain in the history of the Fleet specifically told him to NOT accept that promotion, so he's already gotten a second opinion from someone that tried it and didn't like it... ;)

Well I know he was told that. Plus he quotes what Kirk told him to the admiral who offers him the position. However, at the point in the story, and in the general Star Trek universe, having beaten the Borg, showing what the after efects of that were, and having Picard now married with a kid on the way and having himself say it was a new start and a new universe, for a moment, I thought he might accept it and allow himself a new start.

Glad that came up. I haven't read this one yet, just a wild guess :)
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I just finished it, and really enjoyed it.

I was glad to be able to get to know the new crew a lot more, I look forward to getting to know Elfiki some more, she had a nice strong start along side Trys at the beginning of the book, but then seemed to get slightly forgotten. And I really enjoyed Trys; I liked her in Greater Than the Sum, but found her a bit OTT at times, while here she was just fun and lovely. Her relationship with Picard reminds me of his and Ro's (which is no bad thing at all).

I grew to like Kadohata more in this book too, so was shocked and disappointed to see her leaving the Enterprise! Perhaps more shocked given the bumpy ride the Enterprise crew has had in the relaunch, I was hoping Destiny would have finally cemented the crew and let us get with having adventures with them, so am not happy to see yet another of the new guys out the door already! Though I did notice she seemed to address a lot of people a lot of the time as "love" (if she did it as much before I never noticed, maybe because this is one of her more major appearances), it almost seemed like a suffix to her sentences at times!

I liked Picard as much as ever in this book, especially towards the end when he seemingly had every ship in the area doing his bidding, had me giggling at times. I too half expected him to take that promotion (while somehow managing to stay on the Enterprise).

And the Crusher story worked for me too, I often find flashbacks like these (that don’t really build up to any consequence in the contemporary setting, just add some background info to a character) a bit of a distraction, getting in the way of the stuff I want to be reading about in there here and now - But in this instance I found the Crusher flashbacks sufficiently engaging that I never got to the point of wanting them to be out of the way.

I agree with MNM that (while I found it to be one of the most enjoyable Trek books ever) A Singular Destiny did seem to skip over the direct Destiny aftermath a bit, so I was glad to see that explored much more here.

Silly little highlight: a reference to the Xindi, one of the species at least (the first reference to them outside historical references to events in Enterprise season 3?)

Error noticed: The historians note claims the books takes place in 2361, oopsie!

Anywho, generally I enjoyed it; got to know the new crew, got to see some more of the post-Destiny world. I cant wait for the next instalments.
 
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Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Gah, I'm really disapointed to hear Kadohata is leaveing, I was actually one of the few people who liked her.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Gah, I'm really disapointed to hear Kadohata is leaveing, I was actually one of the few people who liked her.
I didn't find her very exciting in Q&A, and then hated her in Before Dishonor. But after that she's been gradually growing on me, and especially in Losing the Peace I grew to really quite like her. So I'm pretty sad to see her go.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I just finnished it, and really enjoyed it.
:D
I look forward to getting to know Elfiki some more, she had a nice strong start along side Trys at the beginning of the book, but then seemed to get slightly forgotten.
Yeah, unfortunately, in trying to give everyone a little something, some ended up getting less than others.

And the Crusher story worked for me too, I often find flashbacks like these (that don’t really build up to any consequence in the contemporary setting, just add some background info to a character) a bit of a distraction, getting in the way of the stuff I want to be reading about in there here and now - But in this instance I found the Crusher flashbacks sufficiently engaging that I never got to the point of wanting them to be out of the way.
I'm particularly glad to hear this. I wasn't entirely sure they worked as well in execution as I thought they would at the outline stage, so if someone who doesn't generally like the device thought it worked, I'll take that as a win.

Silly little highlight: a reference to the Xindi, one of the species at least (the first reference to them outside historical references to events in Enterprise season 3?)
Actually, the framing story from The Sky's the Limit by Mollmann and Schuster, included a Xindi character.

Error noticed: The historians note claims the books takes place in 2361, oopsie!
:scream::scream::scream::scream::scream::scream:

It was 2381 in the first pass page proofs (i.e. the last time I was allowed to correct any unfixed errors), so I don't know WTF happened there... :sigh:

Thanks for all the comments, 8of5. Glad that you enjoyed it.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I look forward to getting to know Elfiki some more, she had a nice strong start along side Trys at the beginning of the book, but then seemed to get slightly forgotten.
Yeah, unfortunately, in trying to give everyone a little something, some ended up getting less than others.
Well she certainly got a little something, I felt of all the new characters she was one of the least developed so far (but featured enough that I wanted to know more), so the screen time, as it were, that she got here was great. I suppose the other quite background person previously was counsellor Hegol - I thought you set him up quite well for something, but maybe that it was lacking a payoff. But, in some ways that’s good, not every character has to have a conclusion to their little arcs, some can just have a big workload and have to deal with it, which after the invasion he clearly does!

I'm particularly glad to hear this. I wasn't entirely sure they worked as well in execution as I thought they would at the outline stage, so if someone who doesn't generally like the device thought it worked, I'll take that as a win.

Silly little highlight: a reference to the Xindi, one of the species at least (the first reference to them outside historical references to events in Enterprise season 3?)
Actually, the framing story from The Sky's the Limit by Mollmann and Schuster, included a Xindi character.
Awesome, that just shot up several places in my to-read pile!

And another little highlight: was great to see another S'ti'ach character, I love those little guys!
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Gah, I'm really disapointed to hear Kadohata is leaveing, I was actually one of the few people who liked her.

That's a shame, I did like her as a character.

Wow, that whole "new" crew established in Resistance didn't work out to well, eh? Probably more realistic as opposed to the TOS-era crew staying together forever, I suppose.

And goodness, make Picard a commodore and be done with it (greater power without the paperwork and desk job. :lol:).
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

This was a terrific read. After the tumultuous events in the Destiny trilogy it was nice to be able to catch one's breath long enough to engage with solid character studies of several Enterprise E crew members dealing with the aftermath of the Borg and with the leaders and the peoples of several worlds as they cope - or not - with a massive refugee crisis.

When I first read here that there would be some Beverly flashbacks about Jack, I was worried that we'd be plunged into 30-year old angst as the only meaty contribution for the good doctor, but gee, they are written very well and add to rather than detract from what is in fact a worthwhile leadership role for Beverly on Pacifica. It's always pleasing when an author provides a reader with a much deeper and rounded-out portrayal of a favourite (and somewhat neglected) character. It's even better when she gets a great storyline of her own instead of just playing foil to Picard, which has been the tendency in the relaunch books to date. Major kudos for that.

I also really liked the way T'Ryssa Chen was written, after receiving little attention in Destiny. She's a great character and it's fun reading about her and to see the developing dynamics of her unorthodox relationship with Picard. He lets her off with stuff he wouldn't cop from any other crewmember. It shouldn't work, but it does, reminding me of the interactions of Kamin-Meribor and Picard-Ro.

I'm rapidly becoming a fan of Jasminder and she too gets some great quality time here trying to come to terms with the terrible loss of her family and homeworld and not necessarily doing a very good job of it. It's interesting to see here how her religous
convictions and practice only assist her so far in terms of providing a coping mechanism.

Speaking of religion, that is my only gripe - and it's not specifically directed to Mr Leisner - but to the overall message of the ST:TNG relaunch, Destiny trilogy and Singular Destiny books . It just seems to me that if you are an alien (e.g. Bajoran) with a religious belief, or a human with eastern religious tendencies (Hindu-light or Bhuddist), then your religious perspective gets treated with seriousness. I've yet to see any positive allusion whatsoever to either Islam or Christianity. Do neither of these religions exist anymore? And if they do, why are the authors shying away from providing some postive aspects of these faiths informing the attitudes and beliefs of at least some of our human characters?

Back to LoP, Worf is very well written and true to character as is Geordi. I can see both of them in my mind as I read them and that is always a hug-self feeling. Good facetime for both.

I am sad to see that Miranda ends up detached from Enterprise, particularly as so much work in the relaunch has gone into portraying the real difficulties faced by a mother of very young children who nevertheless has a successful career on the
upswing and chooses the latter over the former when they conflict. Although, Crusher's flashbacks assist in this regard to the extent of enabling this female reader to absolutely recognise the reality that there is a time and place for everything. I don't know if this is the case for most men, but at least for most women I know, when two very important things collide, in this case career and family, family almost always wins out. So, Miranda's decision rang true to me. Nevertheless, let's hope that we get her back for the Typhon Pact series, as she would be sorely missed.

As for Picard, thank heavens that he's back to himself. Except for the brief respite offered by Q&A, the relaunch books (for good reason as we finally discovered in the Destiny trilogy) have cast him as intensely brooding, introspective, and deeply,
deeply, depressed. What a relief to find him back to himself; positive and thriving.

Finally, I want to say how much I am enjoying the greater continuity between novels that the authors have brought to the relaunch. Now that the series and movies have gone, it is very welcome to see the seriousness with which the authors are treating the established characters of our old friends while integrating new crewmates into the ST:TNG world. It's a tribute to you that I now have almost as good a mind picture of Jasminder or Chen as I do of Worf. To me, this is what has made the relaunch overall successful; and LoP so pleasing a read.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Thanks much for the detailed comments, LaBarre!
I also really liked the way T'Ryssa Chen was written, after receiving little attention in Destiny. She's a great character and it's fun reading about her and to see the developing dynamics of her unorthodox relationship with Picard. He lets her off with stuff he wouldn't cop from any other crewmember. It shouldn't work, but it does, reminding me of the interactions of Kamin-Meribor and Picard-Ro.
That's very interesting. I can see the Picard-Ro comparison -- experienced mentor helping younger officer with spotty career fulfill potential -- even if I never had that in mind. But to compare it to a father-daughter relationship, particularly as Picard is preparing to welcome his first child into the world... very interesting, indeed.

Speaking of religion, that is my only gripe - and it's not specifically directed to Mr Leisner - but to the overall message of the ST:TNG relaunch, Destiny trilogy and Singular Destiny books . It just seems to me that if you are an alien (e.g. Bajoran) with a religious belief, or a human with eastern religious tendencies (Hindu-light or Bhuddist), then your religious perspective gets treated with seriousness. I've yet to see any positive allusion whatsoever to either Islam or Christianity. Do neither of these religions exist anymore? And if they do, why are the authors shying away from providing some postive aspects of these faiths informing the attitudes and beliefs of at least some of our human characters?
Jasminder's beliefs were established during her introduction in Greater Than the Sum, and they naturally took center stage as she grappled with the horrible tragedy that befell her family. Had Christopher and David decided she was to be a Christian or a Muslim, I can assure you I would have been just as serious in depicting those beliefs in her time of personal tragedy.

That said, yes, Christianity and Islam do still exist in the 24th century, though no, they have not gotten the same kind of exploration. The question of why is probably better suited to a topic all to itself.

I am sad to see that Miranda ends up detached from Enterprise, particularly as so much work in the relaunch has gone into portraying the real difficulties faced by a mother of very young children who nevertheless has a successful career on the upswing and chooses the latter over the former when they conflict. [...] for most women I know, when two very important things collide, in this case career and family, family almost always wins out.

In response to this and the other comments about Miranda, I would like to stress the point that this is not Miranda giving up her career and running back home to to be a mother and housewife. She's still a Starfleet Commander, technically on detached service from the Enterprise, and working on what is going to be one of the more challenging tasks of the post-Borg era, in helping all these refugees through this transition and re-establish their lives. Like she tells Vicenzo, it's going to be like being ops officer for a half dozen starships. Her career is still important to her; it's just taken a course she hadn't anticipated before.

Again, thanks for all the comments. :)
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I've come down with a recurring head cold today, which gave me a perfect chance to read through this book. I think of 'Losing the Peace' as a sequel to 'Greater than the Sum' because it pays a lot of attention to Jasminder Choudhury and T'Ryssa Chen. Seeing the friendship between T'Ryssa and Elfiki was a real delight. Hopefully other authors will take that relationship and run with it too. There's quite a bit of humor in this book, which I didn't expect. Such as the list of T'Ryssa's pranks, or 'Captain Worf' having Picard confined to quarters...along with is wife. Heh.

As for Choudhury, it's interesting to see the limits to which her religious beliefs help her cope with her families deaths. As for Kadohata, I rather liked her character so I was sorry to see her go. However, the book does a good job of convincing me that leaving the Enterprise for a different position to spend more time with her family is the right decision for her.

To me, that seems to be the central theme of this book - seeing how individuals and governments adapt to the new post-Destiny reality. By the end of Destiny, Captain Picard is optimistic of a better future, but that hope is continually dented by the destruction and death he sees around him. The new President of Deneva wants to rebuild his homeworld, which is pretty unrealistic. And the President of Alpha Centauri III wants to secede from the Federation after being saddled with refugees. Of the 3 characters, 2 of them don't cope with the situation until it is literally shoved into their faces.

This book is a really nice breather between the apocalyptic events of Destiny, and (I assume) the even more apocalyptic events awaiting our characters in the upcoming Typhon Pact novels. It'll also be interesting to see in the future whether Pocket Books include the events of Countdown in post-Typhon Pact books, especially as there are some developments there that I like - such as the return of my favourite Positronic Android. ;)
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

This book is a really nice breather between the apocalyptic events of Destiny, and (I assume) the even more apocalyptic events awaiting our characters in the upcoming Typhon Pact novels.

Why do you think the "Typhon Pact" novels will be apocalyptic? The impression I got was that the authors are shying away from war stories for a while. The "Typhon Pact" stories won't feature more destruction, I'm pretty certain: the whole point of these new developments is that the nations of explored space are coming together peacefully (if seemingly divided into two rival camps). These novels will, I imagine, be about diplomacy, politics and building a new form of peace, not more war.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I also really liked the way T'Ryssa Chen was written, after receiving little attention in Destiny. She's a great character and it's fun reading about her and to see the developing dynamics of her unorthodox relationship with Picard. He lets her off with stuff he wouldn't cop from any other crewmember. It shouldn't work, but it does, reminding me of the interactions of Kamin-Meribor and Picard-Ro.

Though I can't take credit for Bill's work, I'm pleased to hear the Kamin-Meribor analogy. I've always seen T'Ryssa as a sort of surrogate daughter for Picard, a chance for him to get some practice for the real thing, as it were. So I'm glad that relationship is coming through in subsequent books.


Speaking of religion, that is my only gripe - and it's not specifically directed to Mr Leisner - but to the overall message of the ST:TNG relaunch, Destiny trilogy and Singular Destiny books . It just seems to me that if you are an alien (e.g. Bajoran) with a religious belief, or a human with eastern religious tendencies (Hindu-light or Bhuddist), then your religious perspective gets treated with seriousness. I've yet to see any positive allusion whatsoever to either Islam or Christianity. Do neither of these religions exist anymore? And if they do, why are the authors shying away from providing some postive aspects of these faiths informing the attitudes and beliefs of at least some of our human characters?

I included a devout, progressive Muslim character in my very first work of Trek fiction, SCE: Aftermath. In Greater Than the Sum I threw in a hint that Dina Elfiki might be Muslim, though I left it ambiguous since I didn't know what other writers might decide to do with the character. Captain Gold of SCE is Jewish and married to a rabbi, and Rebekah Grabowski from GTTS is also Jewish. I can't recall any overtly Christian characters outside of the old TNG novel Guises of the Mind, but McCoy and Scotty often seemed to express sentiments implying Christian belief in TOS.


Why do you think the "Typhon Pact" novels will be apocalyptic? The impression I got was that the authors are shying away from war stories for a while. The "Typhon Pact" stories won't feature more destruction, I'm pretty certain: the whole point of these new developments is that the nations of explored space are coming together peacefully (if seemingly divided into two rival camps). These novels will, I imagine, be about diplomacy, politics and building a new form of peace, not more war.

Well, "peace" may not be quite the right word, since conflict drives stories, but you're right -- this isn't going to be just another war story. Been there, done that. The Federation and the Pact are political rivals, but war is far from the only way to exercise a rivalry. Cultures can compete politically, economically, culturally, technologically, philosophically. They can jockey for dominance in ways that have nothing to do with weapons and troops.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I can easily think of several potential non-war type storylines involving the Typhon Pact, as I'm sure many others can.

I was pleasantly surprised that the book was in my bookstore before the first of the month, normally Star Trek books show up about 2-3 weeks after the month started, I guess the success of the Star Trek movie helped.

I liked the book, thought a did a good job of dealing with the consequences of the Destiny books. Although I'll admit that Picard's thought about launching the Titan to coincide with the (founding day)? a bit odd.

Surely Picard understands the needs for symbolism and to build up morale. Ceremonies have that potential, so I did find his thought a bit awkward.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I'll admit that Picard's thought about launching the Titan to coincide with the (founding day)? a bit odd.

Surely Picard understands the needs for symbolism and to build up morale. Ceremonies have that potential, so I did find his thought a bit awkward.
Picard, as a captain of the Enterprise and a student of history, would most certainly remember what happened the last time a ship's launch was turned into a big media PR event... ;)
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I'm not trying to spoil myself on here but I thought I would post myself. I just started to read the book a few days ago and on Chapter 6 right now. Enjoying the book so far. Nice to see that everyone is getting a share in this unlike past relaunch novels so far. I do have one question for you Bill. The way you described the main shuttlebay, were you getting that from the Star Trek Elite Force 2 game? I'm only asking since I have seen the videos on YouTube and well since you detailed it, looks like what you said. Just was curious.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

^ I am not a gamer at all, and have never seen the Elite Force 2 shuttlebay. I actually tried to keep the description as generic as possible; if any real image influenced me, it was of the Enterprise-D shuttlebay.

Sorry... I get the feeling I just destroyed a little bit of the magic there...
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I hadnt realised this book was set before "A Singular Destiny"

That'll be ideal for me then if I purchase "Losing the Peace" since I haven't even read Singular Destiny yet.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

I've just finished Losing the Peace, and as ever I have a great variety of compliments and complaints that wouldn't matter to anyone but me, but I'm not sure I have the willpower to organize them into a review. For now I'll just highlight a few things I enjoyed and one that annoyed me a little.

I very much appreciate the character-driven feel of the book. There's not exactly a lack of action, but compared to previous TNG "relaunch" stories the epic feel is toned down, and the character interactions get a lot of space. I didn't always feel those character arcs were completely successful, but either way it was good to see them worked on.

It was nice to get some insight into Beverly's response to Jack's death. It's been in the background of her character a lot, but never really came into focus before, and the flashback sections fleshed that out credibly without going on too long.

The grim situation at the refugee camp was also effectively conveyed. It's hard, given the starship/starbase centered nature of Trek, to make the planetary devastation from the Borg invasion feel as real as it should, and Losing the Peace does as much as any book could to bring that across.

I appear to be the only person so far who's felt this way, but I thought Picard's behavior in kidnapping the politicians and flying off to Pacifica was obnoxious and a little hypocritical. Viewed in the light of the Star Trek cliche that Admirals Are Idiots, it makes sense, and in a way all comes out well because the politicians Learn A Valuable Lesson. But I'm not sure how Picard's decision to fly off to his preferred emergency because his medical officer/wife asked him to is any better than Barrile and Tiernan's focus on their own planetary crises. It's true that the Pacifica situation was more urgent than those at Alpha Centauri or Deneva, but (as Akaar points out, before Picard conspires to ignore him in a moment I didn't find as funny as I was evidently supposed to) there are emergencies everywhere. Akaar does lecture Picard on how his behavior was inappropriate, but this being Star Trek, instead of punishment he gets offered a promotion.

Anyway, whatever my complaints, Losing the Peace is a fundamentally thoughtful book that follows up on a number of the lingering TNG threads from Destiny and gives characters old and new some time to shine.
 
Re: Some thoughts on Losing the Peace (spoilers for the book obviously

Why do you think the "Typhon Pact" novels will be apocalyptic? The impression I got was that the authors are shying away from war stories for a while. The "Typhon Pact" stories won't feature more destruction, I'm pretty certain: the whole point of these new developments is that the nations of explored space are coming together peacefully (if seemingly divided into two rival camps). These novels will, I imagine, be about diplomacy, politics and building a new form of peace, not more war.

Well, "peace" may not be quite the right word, since conflict drives stories, but you're right -- this isn't going to be just another war story. Been there, done that. The Federation and the Pact are political rivals, but war is far from the only way to exercise a rivalry. Cultures can compete politically, economically, culturally, technologically, philosophically. They can jockey for dominance in ways that have nothing to do with weapons and troops.
Thanks to both of you for putting my mind at ease. At the time, I was thinking of the most recent Star Wars expanded universe novels. I think they're really well written, but it seems that until recently they've always been constant war stories (eg. New Jedi Order etc...), which after a while got a bit fatiguing for me as a reader. It's nice to know that the Typhon Pact novels will be exploring different issues.
 
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