Some questions about Crusade (possible Babylon 5 spoilers)

[Harvey]

I don't know why people bash 'Grail' so much. I really liked it. Same for 'Deathwalker'. It gave us incite into the first four Babylon stations in a different way. And in an athiest-high environment of sci-fi it was nice to see a man searching for the "Holy Grail".

More like an agnostic-high environment, to be technical. I didn't care for the episode because it was badly directed (due to the director being fired from his consulting producer gig before shooting), it relied on yet another thug downbelow, and it wasted David Warner in a role that wasn't memorable nor contributed to the overall arc. Outside of Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, Warner had much better material on Star Trek.

 

[Kosh Naranek]

I thought Crusade had its good points and it is worth a view IMHO.
1. Daniel Dae Kim as the telepathic XO was an interesting storyline.
2. Max Eilersen was a hoot.
3. Gary Cole was fab.
4. I liked Chen's score. (One of the few)

The effects were horrid and I hated Dureena Nafeel (sp?) and Galen.

I feel it stands heads and shoulders above Legend of the Rangers...

 

[Candlelight]

I didn't care for the episode because it was badly directed (due to the director being fired from his consulting producer gig before shooting), it relied on yet another thug downbelow, and it wasted David Warner in a role that wasn't memorable nor contributed to the overall arc.

As I said, it did remind viewers of the other Babylon stations, plus hint at the upcoming Babylon 4 episode. Not to mention the humourous joke at the start of the episode in the court room, and the Ombudsman would reappear later in the season.

 

[Jan]

I really loved B5 and was looking forward to it. The knowledge that it had been cancelled before I even got to see it didn't deter me from setting the video for its characteristically unhelpful Channel 4 time slot.

And - boy, was I disappointed. Apart from Gary Cole (always great) and the odd re-appearance by B5-ers, it really had little going for it. The cast were forgettable and bland, with the exception of Peter Woodward as Galen, who was memorably awful and proceeded to become one of my least favourite actors ever (and I really like his father, the great Edward Woodward. Okay, we got a guest appearance from him, that was something).

Boy, I couldn't disagree more. While I'll grant that the blakc uniform episodes felt a little watered down thanks to TNT 'notes', I loved all of the characters except perhaps Dr. Chambers.

I'd like to think that the most recent project he was discussing will be a return to form but I'm not getting my hopes up.

What most recent project? He's not discussing anything in the B5 universe at the moment.

Jan

 

[species5618]

Ok, based on the responses I've received (thanks everyone), I'm going to give Crusade a shot--my only issue now is the episode order.

Lindley posted a quick episode order but didn't specify which episodes were 'gray' uniform and which were the remaining ones. I'd like to view the series in the most sensible chronological order possible--basically if this means going from one type of uniform to the other, I'm okay with that if it preserves some type of continuity. The order I found in the lurker's guide goes like this (and it apparently ignores the uniform changes):

1. Racing the Night
2. The Needs of Earth
3. The Memory of War
4. The Long Road
5. Visitors from Down the Street
6. The Well of Forever
7. Each Night I Dream of Home
8. Patterns of the Soul
9. The Path of Sorrows
10. Ruling from the Tomb
11. The Rules of the Game
12. War Zone
13. Appearances and Other Deceits

Is this order somewhat logical? Or are there any changes to it you would recommend?

 

[Captaindemotion]

I'd like to think that the most recent project he was discussing will be a return to form but I'm not getting my hopes up.

What most recent project? He's not discussing anything in the B5 universe at the moment.

Jan[/QUOTE]

Wasn't there some talk of an anthology series in the last year or so? Tales of Babylon 5 or something? Perhaps that's been scrapped; I haven't been following too closely.

 

[Lindley]

1. Racing the Night
2. The Needs of Earth
3. The Memory of War
4. The Long Road
5. Visitors from Down the Street
6. The Well of Forever
7. Each Night I Dream of Home
8. Patterns of the Soul
9. The Path of Sorrows
10. Ruling from the Tomb
11. The Rules of the Game
12. War Zone
13. Appearances and Other Deceits

Is this order somewhat logical? Or are there any changes to it you would recommend?

Well, most of the continuity questions don't matter too much. The big question is War Zone. That is clearly the first episode chronologically----it's tucked away at the end in this order simply because JMS was bitter about being asked to write it. Personally I think it goes much better at the start.

Given the rather light story continuity the series has for the most part, I think that sticking with the uniform continuity helps to give it a sense of progression. So I'd do:

1. War Zone
2. Ruling from the Tomb
3. Appearances and Other Deceits
4. Racing the Night
5. The Needs of Earth
6. The Memory of War
7. Visitors from Down the Street
8. Each Night I Dream of Home
9. To the Ends of the Earth (Unfilmed, 115)
10. Value Judgments (Unfilmed, 114)
11. The Long Road
12. The Well of Forever
13. Patterns of the Soul
14. The Path of Sorrows
15. The Rules of the Game
16. The End of the Line (Unfilmed, 122)

You can of course skip the unfilmed episodes if you don't have the scripts.

This order's only real continuity issue is on-screen date references. Story-wise, character-wise, and visually, I think it's about as good as you can get.

 

[chrisspringob]

Given the rather light story continuity the series has for the most part, I think that sticking with the uniform continuity helps to give it a sense of progression. So I'd do:

1. War Zone
2. Ruling from the Tomb
3. Appearances and Other Deceits
4. Racing the Night
5. The Needs of Earth
6. The Memory of War
7. Visitors from Down the Street
8. Each Night I Dream of Home
9. To the Ends of the Earth (Unfilmed, 115)
10. Value Judgments (Unfilmed, 114)
11. The Long Road
12. The Well of Forever
13. Patterns of the Soul
14. The Path of Sorrows
15. The Rules of the Game
16. The End of the Line (Unfilmed, 122)

Yeah, this is a pretty good order. Definitely better than the JMS-recommended order IMHO. Only downside is that Eilerson's character development will seem to regress somewhat, as "Ruling from the Tomb" and "Appearances and Other Deceits" features a somewhat mellower version of Eilerson than the guy we saw in the gray uniform episodes.

But you can't have everything. Unfortunately, there is no order that maintains perfect logic with respect to both continuity and character development.

 

[Jan]

Wasn't there some talk of an anthology series in the last year or so? Tales of Babylon 5 or something? Perhaps that's been scrapped; I haven't been following too closely.

Babylon 5: The Lost Tales. One was made, with two small stories. As is usual with Warner Bros., it was made with a tiny budget (2-3 million). Even at the time it came out, JMS and Doug Netter were open that any further disks would have to have much more substantial budget. When negotiations opened, it became obvious that WB was only going to allow a small budget again and JMS said "No". He's made the decision that any further B5 will have to be a big-budget movie or nothing.

There are differing opinions of the Lost Tales but we knew before it came out that budget was effecting things since there were originally supposed to be 3 stories on the disk. Other things made it obvious that there wasn't much of a budget such as the almost deserted station.

Like I said, there were differing opionions on the stories we got. I would have loved to see more but I'm in full agreement with JMS' line in the sand that anything more needs to be a feature film.

Jan

 

[Kosh Naranek]

My Lost Tales disc sits on the shelf unwatched. I may have to do that on vacation next week.

 

[RandyS]

Unlike Star Trek, Babylon 5 did NOT translate well into another series. I don't know why this is, but I think it's probably because B5 was such a beautifully written show, and really the best thing to happen to Sc-Fi after Star Trek, that it's simply a tough act to follow.

That said, Crusade wasn't bad, it just didn't reach the bar set by B5.

 

[Candlelight]

Unlike Star Trek, Babylon 5 did NOT translate well into another series. I don't know why this is, but I think it's probably because B5 was such a beautifully written show, and really the best thing to happen to Sc-Fi after Star Trek, that it's simply a tough act to follow.

That said, Crusade wasn't bad, it just didn't reach the bar set by B5.

Lots of reasons. JMS admitted he was burnt out in Season Five, and this was probably a continuation of that. TNT's interference in the storytelling would change what JMS wanted for the show. The actors were almost all nobodies, and that didn't really help the show gain an audience (granted neither was B5). Plus this was season one of another five year show. JMS had to build another universe, which is quite hard considering Babylon 5 was primary set in a solitary position talking about these strange and wonderful worlds, now all of a sudden we have to go visit them. Sometimes reading a novel is better than seeing the movie adaptation.