Some new opinions/information from folks who've seen the film....

[xortex]

Well, noone who matters in power were convinced else the ratings might have picked up. For some reason people like quality.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Starship Polaris
"...There's no value in protecting the "status quo" of a dead franchise..."

There's not much value in changing it so much that it (possibly) fails to revive it either.

They're doing their best to revive it. There's value in that. If they fail, the franchise isn't one bit worse off than before.

It's almost like your experiance with working on TNG and such, has ruined your enjoyment of Trek (just a guess on my part) and made you very jaded toward it and other fans.

Save the guessing. I like Trek fine. I'm not at all jaded toward Trek.

What passes for "fandom" in a lot of quarters is perhaps a different issue.

 

[DaveyNY]

Noone was convinced it was getting better because it wasn't.

Really? Could have fooled the naysayers here--myself and Temis for example--who felt season four was a huge step up for the show.

You can add my name to that list.

I also thought season four was a turn in the right direction.

And even though I winced a bit at the first couple of episodes, one should remember that the Space Nazi's were dumpped into Manny's lap.
I thought that he and his crew did an admirable job with what they were stuck with and managed to get away from it as quickly as possible.

 

[number6]

Well, noone who matters in power were convinced else the ratings might have picked up. For some reason people like quality.

Quality has nothing to do with ratings. UPN had better numbers with cheaply produced reality shows.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, noone who matters in power were convinced else the ratings might have picked up.

That sentence makes no sense whatever. If convincing "people in power" that something is good might cause "the ratings to pick up" then no show would ever fail because it's always in their interest for them to succeed. What the people in power think does not cause the ratings to go up or down.

The ratings on Trek had been heading south without respite for many years before Coto even came to work on the franchise, beginning with the first season of DS9.

For some reason people like quality.

For some reason people like whatever they as individuals consider to be quality, and for some reason people do not agree on that.

 

[xortex]

We all agree TOS was quality. When something is good, ratings usually go up.

 

[DaveyNY]

Starship Polaris
"...There's no value in protecting the "status quo" of a dead franchise..."

There's not much value in changing it so much that it (possibly) fails to revive it either.

They're doing their best to revive it. There's value in that. If they fail, the franchise isn't one bit worse off than before.

It's almost like your experiance with working on TNG and such, has ruined your enjoyment of Trek (just a guess on my part) and made you very jaded toward it and other fans.

Save the guessing. I like Trek fine. I'm not at all jaded toward Trek.

What passes for "fandom" in a lot of quarters is perhaps a different issue.

OK...I guess that I'm the jaded one then.

My only response to your fandom line is that it takes all kinds, I guess.


Actually, if it does fail, then (I think) it will be worse off than before.

And the main reason I believe this is because We'll be stuck with it.

I'm of the opinion that ALL of the TV/Movies (including the Animated) are part of Trek Lore, like it or not.

But I would prefer to like it.

 

[xortex]

And mate..

 

[DaveyNY]

Well, no one who matters in power were convinced else the ratings might have picked up. For some reason people like quality.

Quality has nothing to do with ratings. UPN had better numbers with cheaply produced reality shows.

Which They Advertised the Hell out of almost 24 hours a day.

Unlike ENTERPRISE which not only did they mostly push to the back advertising burner, but also let the local station's pre-exempt like crazy.

It was the same old story, nobody with decision making power understood or cared about what they had. The people that cared were at the very bottom of the decision making totem pole.

 

[Therin of Andor]

It's the fact that this new movie is changing things so much, that I think it's not really going to create a larger fanbase.
It's just gonna split up the current fanbase into smaller, much more resistant-to-change, splinter groups.

ST:TMP changed lots of things - the ship, the uniforms, Kirk's promotion, Klingon makeup, Spock's purging of emotions, and it wasn't even a critically well-received film. But the fanbase grew much larger due to this one-off movie.

The fanbase grew again due to ST II, ST IV and TNG. Sure, it created a few splinter groups, and you'll always lose people along the way, but the main group still kept growing, right up till "First Contact".

 

[DaveyNY]

It's the fact that this new movie is changing things so much, that I think it's not really going to create a larger fanbase.
It's just gonna split up the current fanbase into smaller, much more resistant-to-change, splinter groups.

ST:TMP changed lots of things - the ship, the uniforms, Kirk's promotion, Klingon makeup, Spock's purging of emotions, and it wasn't even a critically well-received film. But the fanbase grew much larger due to this one-off movie.

The fanbase grew again due to ST II, ST IV and TNG. Sure, it created a few splinter groups, and you'll always lose people along the way, but the main group still kept growing, right up till "First Contact".

I guess I'd have to add that all of your examples didn't really change the fundamental way We as Fans looked at Trek though.

Sure TPTB fiddled with the look quite a bit and added a bit of new stuff to the characters backgrounds, but They didn't Drastically Alter Things so much that We as the observers, had to RETHINK how We perceived the Characters and Their Histories.

I can't say for sure at this point that this is what is actually going to happen with Trek XI, but from what I've seen and read so far, it sure seems that way.

I'm going to reserve my final judgment till May 8th, but geess, They sure aren't making it easy.

 

[Gepard]

I guess I'd have to add that all of your examples didn't really change the fundamental way We as Fans looked at Trek though.

Sure TPTB fiddled with the look quite a bit and added a bit of new stuff to the characters backgrounds, but They didn't Drastically Alter Things so much that We as the observers, had to RETHINK how We perceived the Characters and Their Histories.

Okay, I've been skimming through your posts here and I'm just wondering...What's with All the randomly Capitalized Words?

 

[M'Sharak]

I guess I'd have to add that all of your examples didn't really change the fundamental way We as Fans looked at Trek though.

Sure TPTB fiddled with the look quite a bit and added a bit of new stuff to the characters backgrounds, but They didn't Drastically Alter Things so much that We as the observers, had to RETHINK how We perceived the Characters and Their Histories.

Okay, I've been skimming through your posts here and I'm just wondering...What's with All the randomly Capitalized Words?

Goes back to here, I think, in response to Dennis' use of capitalization. (Unless he caught it from RJD, in which case we may have a Nascent Capitalization Epidemic on our hands. )

 

[Therin of Andor]

I guess I'd have to add that all of your examples didn't really change the fundamental way We as Fans looked at Trek though.

Sure TPTB fiddled with the look quite a bit and added a bit of new stuff to the characters backgrounds, but They didn't Drastically Alter Things so much that We as the observers, had to RETHINK how We perceived the Characters and Their Histories.

You reckon?

There was outrage from many that TMP changed things, esp. from the Klingon fans, and admirers of the original ship.

There was outrage when it was revealed Spock was slated to die in ST II. Fans took out a full-page ad in "Variety" to promote their boycott.

The switching of Saaviks caused much ruffling of feathers, as did the destruction of the Enterprise in ST III.

And TOS vs TNG, Kirk vs Picard polarized much of fandom for a very long time.

Then there was Kirk's death in GEN, Data's in NEM, and Trip's in ENT.

 

[Gepard]

(Unless he caught it from RJD, in which case we may have a Nascent Capitalization Epidemic on our hands. )

But where would we be without Warnings, Posts and Human rights?

 

[M'Sharak]

Not so worried about becoming collateral damage when JKTim's head explodes?