So, your top 10 stories then?

[Gov Kodos]

I've made up my mind that there is no particular order to these...
The Runaway Bride
The Unearthly Child
The Pyramids of Mars
The Claws of Axos
The Brain of Morbius
The Curse of the Fendahl
The Talons of Weng Chiang
The Seeds of Doom
The Eleventh Hour
A Christmas Carol

 

[Starkers]

Riiighhht....the Doctor made us all chant his name so he could un-dobby himself and defeat the Master...just for once I'd like it if human beings saved the day rather than the all powerful Doctor just told us poor dumb apes what to do, even Martha was used, just following orders...

Martha did all the work all the Doctor did was attune himself to the network. And I don't think Martha was used either for that matter, she what she out of love for the Doctor she even said as much.

Yes MArtha did all the labour, but the idea was the Doctor's, that's my point. If humanity had come up with the plan to save the Doctor that would have been great, but as brilliant as humanity supposedly is, heaven forbid anyone but the Doctor should really be holding the reigns...see also The Next Doctor, Jackson Lake isn't even allowed the kudos of saving his own son!

 

[DWF]

Riiighhht....the Doctor made us all chant his name so he could un-dobby himself and defeat the Master...just for once I'd like it if human beings saved the day rather than the all powerful Doctor just told us poor dumb apes what to do, even Martha was used, just following orders...

Martha did all the work all the Doctor did was attune himself to the network. And I don't think Martha was used either for that matter, she what she out of love for the Doctor she even said as much.

Yes MArtha did all the labour, but the idea was the Doctor's, that's my point. If humanity had come up with the plan to save the Doctor that would have been great, but as brilliant as humanity supposedly is, heaven forbid anyone but the Doctor should really be holding the reigns...see also The Next Doctor, Jackson Lake isn't even allowed the kudos of saving his own son!

I have no problem with the Doctor saving Jackson Lake's son in fact I liked how he did it. Go back to the first two Doctors and even Eccleston's Doctor if you want to see othes saving the day. And we all know is that the Doctor told Martha to use the countdown not what to do, I think that was all Martha including the fake gun and it was Jack who destroyed the paradox machine.

 

[WRStone]

The Top Ten:

• An Unearthly Child
• The Dalek Invasion of Earth
• The War Games
• Inferno
• Genesis of the Daleks
• City of Death
• Warriors' Gate
• Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords
• The End of Time
• The Eleventh Hour

Honorable Mention:

• Time Crash
• Space/Time
• The Three Doctors
• The Five Doctors

I include an honorable mention because of my predilection for wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff. Call it a weakness. None of those episodes were fantastically well-written stories, but I got a serious kick out of their timey-wimey-ness.

The Top Ten are more or less in transmission order, simply because I've got no good way to quantify them. How much I like them largely depends on how recently I've seen them.

To be honest, that's pretty much how I feel about any good Doctor Who episode. It's fairly easy for me to pick out the ones I don't like, but the ones I do like tend to stand the test of time.

In general, I really liked the chemistry between the Doctor and Romana. I can enjoy almost any of their episodes. It probably didn't hurt that Douglas Adams script edited a lot of their time together.

 

[Sadistro]

Sci:

I never said Sussman should be Showrunner - just that he would be a decent guy to chuck an episode to, and see what he can make of it. Yes, the show should retain its British flavour overall, but a fresh perspective never hurts.

And I must take exception to the idea that 'The Empty Child' features ordinary people. The gang of orphans that the Doctor meets are of the charming, loveable 'Peter Pan and the Lost Boys' mould, Wendy Darling mother figure and all.

Ordinary people is people like Rose Tyler, the people in the church from 'Father's Day', the couple in Voyage of the Damned who are getting the VIP treatment because they won the tickets etc etc.

Some of the most authentic moments are when the Doctor looks with admiration at real people who aren't doing anything more extraordinary than just living their lives.

'This is real life, right here' he says with pride of the people having the street party in 'The Idiot's Lantern'. He goes on that trip in 'Midnight', not to see the diamond planet, but just to people watch at the human passengers.

The much maligned (but not by me) 'Love and Monsters' was all about how chasing after the Doctor and his magic box of adventures is not all there is to life. Elton's final speech on how there's plenty of magic in just living your life is one of my favourite moments of this entire series.


I also don't accept that Rose is a dreamy loner style character. She is someone who has a job, has friends, goes out, isn't pining eternally for something greater (although that is retconned into her by the time 'Doomsday' aired).

She brings a healthy dose of reality to Ecclestone's Doctor. She's someone who you wouldn't naturally associate with wanting magical adventures, and so forth. But just because she lived an ordinary life and was content with it, shouldn't disqualify her from this opportunity.

Because many did say (initially at least) that Rose was 'a chav' and were disappointed that 'one of her lot' would be the one who got to go on an adventure that any card carrying sci-fi lover would jump at.

But Amy has been so much worse, strutting around with an air of utterly obnoxious entitlement, constantly asking for new stimulus and acting in a manner that is so irresponsibly reckless, that she is forever putting herself and others in danger.

She's the worst kind of spoiled brat, who's the apple of their parental figure's eye (in this case, the Doctor and Moffat). She treats it all like some kind of game, with none of the common sense that a grounded person like Mickey (for all the Doctor teased him) showed.

Let's not forget that Moffat is the person who had the Doctor (as far as he knew) strand Mickey and Rose on the 'Madama De Pompadore', on their own and with no way home, just to act out another of his romantic fantasies (with yet another rebellious female character).

But it always work out for the best with Moffat - because he cheats. In real life, act as recklessly and as foolishly inconsiderate as this, and there are consequences.


Like I say, in small doses I can take Steven Moffat just fine, if not as rabidly enthusiatically as some do.

But his focus on loveable orphan girls and irksomely self obsessed outsiders ('Sad is happy for Deep people'... I mean that just says it all), gets extremely cloying after a while.

 

[Starkers]

And I must take exception to the idea that 'The Empty Child' features ordinary people. The gang of orphans that the Doctor meets are of the charming, loveable 'Peter Pan and the Lost Boys' mould, Wendy Darling mother figure and all.

Really? A young girl who was a single mother at a time when that really was frowned upon to the extent that she has to lie to her own son? At least one young boy who trekked back to the constantly being bombed London from the safety of the countryside because of implied abuse by the man he was sent to stay with? Not quite as twee as you make it out to be is it?

Yeah Moffat does cheat, but he at least tries to hide it, RTD cheated all the time but did it openly and arrogantly, IMO. As for Amy, she's still nowhere near as obnoxious as Rose was in Series 2, that was arrogance.

 

[Sadistro]

No, that was just poor writing of the new dynamic between Rose and Tennant's Doctor. Rose is a great character in S1. Piper and Ecclestone work excellently together.

Rose actually appears genuinely overcome with wonder, and crucially, she is grateful for this once in a lifetime opportunity. Amy just acts like a hyperactive kid wanting more, more, more, now, now, now.

However in S2, Rose loses most of her personality and believability to become the will they/won't they' love interest. No wonder Piper left - she does nothing of substance throughout most of that whole season.


And I remain unmoved on 'The Empty Child'. The young girl and her loveable pack of (extremely well groomed and well fed) urchins, rob from the mean old butcher, before she reveals her sad story in the moonlight...

Its romantic tragedy, as I've been saying. This fairy tale situation, in no way reflects the genuine hardship and suffering of the homeless and victims of abuse.

Should all homeless people and orphans find some nasty and well off people to steal from? Are they all so healthy and full of youthful pep?

A pity for them that they aren't - because they'll never get noticed by the Doctor otherwise, in Moffat's telling of it.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I have no problem with the Doctor saving Jackson Lake's son in fact I liked how he did it.

I like the concept of "The Next Doctor" a lot. I think RTD's execution left a lot to be desired -- and resulted in a deeply flawed story.

Davies really needed another draft or two -- and a less sycophantic retinue around him who could be critical -- because I think "TND" would have been easily fixable. Have Lake play a role in the climax, rather than standing around as a passive observer. Have Lake, not the Doctor, save his son. Have Lake discover that, while he's not the Doctor, he can still be a hero.

And the biggie? Put Jackson Lake in the damn balloon. I thought it was fantastic that Lake had built himself a TARDIS. He, not the Doctor, should have had the opportunity to use it.

"The Next Doctor" is an episode of two halves -- there's the Cybermen plot and there's the Jackson Lake plot. Of the two, the Jackson Lake plot is the more interesting, but once it's resolved the episode loses a lot of its energy. Had Davies found a way to keep Jackson Lake involved dramatically at the climax, the episode would have been genius.

And when there's a multi-Doctor story in two years? I don't care one way or the other if Eccleston comes back. But I definitely want David Morrissey back.

 

[23skidoo]

Jebus. Only ten?

And only TV? I just finished listening to Peri and the Piscon Paradox and it's now in my top 5, but it's an audio drama.

Alex

 

[Peacemaker]

I would give my top ten but they slipped through a crack in the fabric of the universe and I forgot them....

 

[Starkers]

No, that was just poor writing of the new dynamic between Rose and Tennant's Doctor. Rose is a great character in S1. Piper and Ecclestone work excellently together.

Rose actually appears genuinely overcome with wonder, and crucially, she is grateful for this once in a lifetime opportunity. Amy just acts like a hyperactive kid wanting more, more, more, now, now, now.

However in S2, Rose loses most of her personality and believability to become the will they/won't they' love interest. No wonder Piper left - she does nothing of substance throughout most of that whole season.


And I remain unmoved on 'The Empty Child'. The young girl and her loveable pack of (extremely well groomed and well fed) urchins, rob from the mean old butcher, before she reveals her sad story in the moonlight...

Its romantic tragedy, as I've been saying. This fairy tale situation, in no way reflects the genuine hardship and suffering of the homeless and victims of abuse.

Should all homeless people and orphans find some nasty and well off people to steal from? Are they all so healthy and full of youthful pep?

A pity for them that they aren't - because they'll never get noticed by the Doctor otherwise, in Moffat's telling of it.

I'm sorry, I must have missed all those other examples of poor ragged destitute children from history in all those none Moffat stories? Best not talk about the Oliver Twist likes kids in The Next Doctor eh? And I love how when Moffat tugs the heartstrings its romantic tragedy but when RTD or someone else does (which they do, all the time, Father's Day is probably the most mawkish of the lot aside from Doomsday) it somehow isn't? Personally I don't think you're being entirely objective because you just don't like Moffat...which is horses for courses I guess

I have no problem with the Doctor saving Jackson Lake's son in fact I liked how he did it.

I like the concept of "The Next Doctor" a lot. I think RTD's execution left a lot to be desired -- and resulted in a deeply flawed story.

Davies really needed another draft or two -- and a less sycophantic retinue around him who could be critical -- because I think "TND" would have been easily fixable. Have Lake play a role in the climax, rather than standing around as a passive observer. Have Lake, not the Doctor, save his son. Have Lake discover that, while he's not the Doctor, he can still be a hero.

And the biggie? Put Jackson Lake in the damn balloon. I thought it was fantastic that Lake had built himself a TARDIS. He, not the Doctor, should have had the opportunity to use it.

"The Next Doctor" is an episode of two halves -- there's the Cybermen plot and there's the Jackson Lake plot. Of the two, the Jackson Lake plot is the more interesting, but once it's resolved the episode loses a lot of its energy. Had Davies found a way to keep Jackson Lake involved dramatically at the climax, the episode would have been genius.

Couldn't agree more, there's a whole lot to like about the Next Doctor but it becomes steadily less interesting once 'The Next Doctor' is shifted out of the picture so that Ten can save the day on his own. Morrissey and Kirwan are excellent, Cybermen in Victorian London is a wonderful conceit (the cemetary scene is just wonderful) but it's let down by two reccuring RTD issues; one his need to worship the Doctor, and two his need for a huge explosive giant climax of a robot over London...I could have accepted the transformer better if Jackson had been allowed to save his son and, like you say, been allowed to tra el in what was, at the end of the day, his Tardis! To then have Lake leading the cheers for the Doctor at the end was just the icing on a very cringe worthy cake!

 

[Sadistro]

I gave plenty of example of ordinary people in the episodes of other writers. Instead of saying I'm bashing Moffat because I don't like him, you could just read the posts properly instead.

I really don't know what to say if you think Moffat is as authentic a writer of real life and real people as Paul Cornell and RTD. Moffat's characters and situations are highly stylised, always infused with fairytale style imagery, and never feel like people who actually exist outside of a story book.

There is power in Moffat's stories, but all of a similar variety. And that is my issue with him. He repeats himself, he repeats his imagery, his characters and his storytelling.

His stories just aren't something that I recognise as showing the truth of this life, fantasical adventures and galaxies or no. His is a vision of how her would like the universe to be, more romantic, more scary but in cool ways etc etc.

But that ignores that the Doctor resonated with the masses, because RTD was able to show how someone like him and the adventure and danger he brings, could be of value and relevance to the world we know.

And in that world, good does not always triumph, there are consequences and sacrifices.

But its just nice to know that someone cares. That's the Doctor's real power.

 

[Starkers]

There is power in Moffat's stories, but all of a similar variety. And that is my issue with him. He repeats himself, he repeats his imagery, his characters and his storytelling.

As does RTD, as do any number of writers...heck RTD even reuses the same names! I do get what you mean, and Moffat has specifically says he sees Who as a fairy tale, but I don't neccesarily think RTD was always that good at showing real people, though he had his moments. Love and Monsters is almost worth the price of admission alone for the Jackie bits. Just because Rose worked in a shop and liked chips didn't neccesarily make her a real person.

And should Dr Who be real? The whole nature of the show is the fantastical, and I don't think everything needs to be grounded in reality (because, you know a lot of the time real lift kinda sucks) hell I grew up watching Blakes 7 which doesn't even feature characters from our time and I grew up just fine...probably

 

[DWF]

I have no problem with the Doctor saving Jackson Lake's son in fact I liked how he did it.

I like the concept of "The Next Doctor" a lot. I think RTD's execution left a lot to be desired -- and resulted in a deeply flawed story.

Davies really needed another draft or two -- and a less sycophantic retinue around him who could be critical -- because I think "TND" would have been easily fixable. Have Lake play a role in the climax, rather than standing around as a passive observer. Have Lake, not the Doctor, save his son. Have Lake discover that, while he's not the Doctor, he can still be a hero.

And the biggie? Put Jackson Lake in the damn balloon. I thought it was fantastic that Lake had built himself a TARDIS. He, not the Doctor, should have had the opportunity to use it.

"The Next Doctor" is an episode of two halves -- there's the Cybermen plot and there's the Jackson Lake plot. Of the two, the Jackson Lake plot is the more interesting, but once it's resolved the episode loses a lot of its energy. Had Davies found a way to keep Jackson Lake involved dramatically at the climax, the episode would have been genius.

And when there's a multi-Doctor story in two years? I don't care one way or the other if Eccleston comes back. But I definitely want David Morrissey back.

If Jackson Lake had been effective at all in dealing with the Cybermen I might agree and yes it's possible that Lake might've been able to reconvert Miss Hartigan, but had no idea how to stop the Cyberking. And the show is called Doctor Who not The Adventures Of Jackson Lake, the Doctor is the main character on the show and the prime mover.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

DWF, I didn't say that Lake had to be the one to defeat the Cybermen and deassimilate Miss Hartigan. Even I think that would be... well... absurd.

But Lake should have been involved in some capacity at the climax. He should have had a moment where he got to be the hero in his own story. He should have saved his son. And he should have been the one to fly the balloon; maybe Lake steers it while the Doctor does his jiggery-pokery with the infostamps. Neither change would have made the episode less about the Doctor.

 

[Sadistro]

I'm not saying that each episode should be The Doctor helping out at soup kitchens in The Bronx. I'm just saying that the show loses some of its relevance, certainly to a wider audience than just genre fans, when it strays too far into such fairy tale terrority.

The show has profited greatly from having an anchor in the world and culture of today. Rose, Mickey, Jackie and Donna particularly were characters who looked like they had the same real world troubles and experiences that people of today face - both the good and the bad.

This latest series was far more casual with such things, basically just saying 'Here's Amy's relatives, but never mind about them - off we go into spaaace!' Even when her parents are restored to reality, they get one hug and are then forgotten about again.

And yes, writers do repeat themselves, but Moffat really takes the prize. How many times is her going to use the 'Little girl in danger' for example?

Also, despite the quality of the opening 15 minutes to 'The Eleventh Hour', it was hardly the most encouraging sight to see Moffat, in his first act in control of the show, repeating himself almost verbatim from 'The Girl in the Fireplace'!


Despite how it may appear, I am not biased against Steven Moffat. Look in my Top 10 stories earlier in this thread, and you'll see I place 'The Beast Below' and 'Flesh and Stone' in there. Both by Moffat, and both from his first series as showrunner.

But I am very sceptical of him in that showrunner role, and I'm also far less unconditionally impressed with his work, than his rabid fanbase usually are.

Again, in small doses, he's fine. In large doses, his shortcomings are IMO, crippling.

 

[DWF]

DWF, I didn't say that Lake had to be the one to defeat the Cybermen and deassimilate Miss Hartigan. Even I think that would be... well... absurd.

But Lake should have been involved in some capacity at the climax. He should have had a moment where he got to be the hero in his own story. He should have saved his son. And he should have been the one to fly the balloon; maybe Lake steers it while the Doctor does his jiggery-pokery with the infostamps. Neither change would have made the episode less about the Doctor.

It's hard to tell because it's not really onscreen but I think Lake was afraid to fly in the balloon, otherwise I"m sure he would've gone up in it long before the Doctor showed up. It's possible he had a fear of heights. True there's little to go but I do think he was afraid of something, being the Doctor allowed him to overcome his fear.

 

[Sci]

All I can say is this:

1. I really don't think that the man who wrote "The Girl in the Fireplace," with its truly tragic ending, can be accused of only depicting life as a fairytale.

2. I really don't know what anyone is talking about when they say that Amy or Rose seem like spoiled brats.

 

[Thestral]

^ I think you need to rework your definition of fairytale. For example, Pan's Labyrinth is a fairytale. Peter Pan (J.M. Barrie's) is a fairytale. The Dream Lord would be right at home in a fairytale.

To the OP, in chronological order (and counting two parters as one story):

The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances
The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit
Human Nature/The Family of Blood
Blink
Midnight
Turn Left
The Eleventh Hour
The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone
Vincent and the Doctor
The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang

Really though, I feel bad leaving off several episodes.

 

[Harry Palmer]

1. Genesis of the Daleks
2. Horror of Fang Rock
3. Talons of Weng Chiang
4. The Robots of Death
5. Robot
6. The Armageddon Factor
7. Destiny of the Daleks
8. The Hand of Fear
9. The Horns of Nimon
10. Logopolis