So why exactly is AVP1 so bad?

[Tosk]

How is the alien lifecycle shit on[...]?

It's like Saul said. The time between faceugger and fully grown Alien is ridiculous. Facehugger goes on, cut to people walking, cut back to chestburster appearing already. Cut back to walking people who are then attacked by Predators. During that fight, the now fully grown Aliens pop up and join in. There's not even an implied passage of time to help out.

Could you expand on each of these points?

The Predator suits are bulky and "fat" looking, to the point where even ADI (the company that made them) admit as much when doing better on AVPR. (The Predator suit was one of very few things better in AVPR) It's not that there can't be fat Predators, just that aesthetically speaking they look bad. I hate the mega-super-long wristblades too. Where do they go when retracted?

The Aliens are all fleshy and un-Alien because they re-used the Alien Resurrection suits. In that film there was a story reason for the fleshy look, in AVP there is not.

The guy who refers to metric time and then proceeds to count in intervals of ten minutes is a groaner that I just remembered. And Anderson cherry-picks stuff from the comic book without any context, which makes the moments come across as unearned. In the film, the Predator deputizes Lex simply because she accidentally spears one Alien. It's that easy to get on their good side?

 

[Tiberius]

How is the alien lifecycle shit on[...]?

It's like Saul said. The time between faceugger and fully grown Alien is ridiculous. Facehugger goes on, cut to people walking, cut back to chestburster appearing already. Cut back to walking people who are then attacked by Predators. During that fight, the now fully grown Aliens pop up and join in. There's not even an implied passage of time to help out.

True, but that doesn't make it a bad movie. There are plenty of great movies that have such details.

Could you expand on each of these points?

The Predator suits are bulky and "fat" looking, to the point where even ADI (the company that made them) admit as much when doing better on AVPR. (The Predator suit was one of very few things better in AVPR) It's not that there can't be fat Predators, just that aesthetically speaking they look bad. I hate the mega-super-long wristblades too. Where do they go when retracted?

So not much of an argument there, either...

The Aliens are all fleshy and un-Alien because they re-used the Alien Resurrection suits. In that film there was a story reason for the fleshy look, in AVP there is not.

Again, not much there either. You can't really justify the claim that it's a bad movie because you don't like the suits.

The guy who refers to metric time and then proceeds to count in intervals of ten minutes is a groaner that I just remembered.

Oh no! Scientific inaccuracies!

And Anderson cherry-picks stuff from the comic book without any context, which makes the moments come across as unearned. In the film, the Predator deputizes Lex simply because she accidentally spears one Alien. It's that easy to get on their good side?

I honestly don't see the problem there. She shows that she has the guts to kill these aliens, and the Predator gives her some tools to help. I never saw it as deputizing her, any more than any of the other predators were deputies. It just recognises in her a kindred hunter and doesn't want to leave her to be killed.

 

[Harvey]

It is an unimaginative, unambitious movie made for teenagers. As disappointing as the third and fourth Alien films are, both were imaginative, ambitious, and made for adults.

It doesn't help that Paul W.S. Anderson is a terrible filmmaker who can't even execute a cheap jump scare, let alone build dread or tension. The AvP video games are hardly high art, but they were at least successful in establishing and maintaining the proper mood.

 

[DonIago]

With all due respect Tiberius, you asked why people take issue with the movie. Replying to their grievances by dismissing them doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. We're talking about opinions here, and you're getting them.

Now if you're asking why it might bother people here but not in other cases, that's a different matter, but that's not how you came across IMO.

 

[Tosk]

EDITED. DonIago said it best, and I can't be bothered.

 

[Starkers]

How dare you even mention Carpenter and Anderson in same breath! (yes, even Escape From LA )

I still think it’s a crying shame that the man who made Event Horizon has never done anything as good since and just trots out RE films on a conveyer belt. Of course he’s wealthy and married to a model so it’s a bit like that infamous George Best related quote (“Where did it all go wrong?” the journalist asked the Manchester Uniter footballer who was rich, had won many things, and slept with Miss world!)

LA’s major flaw is the cgi, which on the whole I’m quite forgiving of. I think the timing of it didn’t help either. In the 80’s I think it was easy for people to believe a scenario like that could come to pass, the notion of war with Russia seemed very likely, New York was perceived as a very dangerous place, and a president like Pleasance wasn’t seen as far-fetched either.

Fast forward to ‘96 and Clinton’s in office the cold war is over and the world seems hopeful. It’s harder to imagine a police dictatorship in those circumstances.

Of course the irony is that, in some ways, LA is scarily prescient.

A major cataclysmic event at the beginning of the 21st century that prompts a paradigm shift (the Earthquake that severs LA from the mainland/911)

A right wing religious president (Cliff Robertson/ Dubya)

A crackdown on freedoms (Homeland Security/The Patriot Act vs. the Army like United States Police Force)

And of course there’s Valeria Golino’s throwaway line. “I was a Muslim in South Dakota, suddenly they made it a crime.”

It’s not my intention to suggest America became a fascist state under George W Bush, simply that if LA had come out in, say, 2003/2004 Carpenter would have been accused of jumping on the bandwagon and LA would have been seen as a far more political film.

None of which make it great, none of which make it anywhere near as good as Escape from New York, but it is an unappreciated film in my opinion. And I’d probably watch it ahead of most of Anderson’s films, except the aforementioned Event Horizon.

 

[lurok]

Event Horizon was a bloody mess (if excuse pun), but yes, infinitely more interesting and challenging than PWSA films since . And I'm prob one of the few like you who quite likes Escape From LA (but I'm a Carpenter devotee anyway, for good or bad).

 

[Tosk]

^Same here. I'm a JC fan, and have enjoyed every film he's made. The only one I find difficult to defend is Ghosts of Mars. Escape From LA is great fun.

 

[DalekJim]

Surprised to se I'm the only Alien 3 fan here. A very moody, gothic and atmospheric film.

 

[Tosk]

You're not. I love it too.

 

[lurok]

I think there's quite a few here who like/prefer Alien 3 extended/director's cut. Rather watch that than Resurrection anyday (though even that has a few good moments)

 

[Deckerd]

The problem with AVP is the premise. It was a terrible idea and the movie proved that it was a terrible idea.

 

[Starkers]

Add me into the pro Alien 3 camp, so much better than Ressurection.

 

[lurok]

The problem with AVP is the premise. It was a terrible idea and the movie proved that it was a terrible idea.

Not sure anything can top that.

 

[bullethead]

The problem with AVP is the premise. It was a terrible idea and the movie proved that it was a terrible idea.

I think the execution has been more of a problem than the premise. I, for one, would gladly watch a National Geographic documentary style AVP miniseries.

 

[Gaith]

The problem with AVP is the premise. It was a terrible idea and the movie proved that it was a terrible idea.

I've never seen it - life's too short - but while I think the core matchup idea has some potential, I definitely think the Earth setting and historical backstory was a mistake. Xenos on Earth should be the ultimate terror to be resisted, not backstory.

 

[Tiberius]

With all due respect Tiberius, you asked why people take issue with the movie. Replying to their grievances by dismissing them doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. We're talking about opinions here, and you're getting them.

Now if you're asking why it might bother people here but not in other cases, that's a different matter, but that's not how you came across IMO.

Sorry if my posts came across the wrong way.

I hear what you're saying, but I think that the vast majority of criticisms being leveled against AVP1 are too harsh, and I'm just saying why. That's all.

 

[Nagisa Furukawa]

LA’s major flaw is the cgi, which on the whole I’m quite forgiving of. I think the timing of it didn’t help either.

Nah, its major flaw is that it feels more like a remake of EFNY than a sequel to EFNY. Sure, it veers off into some different directions here and there, but there's a clear shared similarity in both plot structure and character archetypes (both in and outside the city), but while none of it is really bad, it just makes it really obvious when watching how much better the direction, atmosphere, actors playing those archetypes, and even Russell was in the other flick because it's so similar. I can't help but watch and feel, "This was better the first time I saw it."

 

[Roshi]

The Aliens were nerfed.
The Predators were nerfed.
The humans had no charisma (even Lance Henriksen, way to go, Paul What Script Anderson!!!)
The Aliens matured too quickly,
The setting was dumb, the story had no direction.
NO FUCKING GORY PARTS!!!

 

[DonIago]

With all due respect Tiberius, you asked why people take issue with the movie. Replying to their grievances by dismissing them doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. We're talking about opinions here, and you're getting them.

Now if you're asking why it might bother people here but not in other cases, that's a different matter, but that's not how you came across IMO.

Sorry if my posts came across the wrong way.

I hear what you're saying, but I think that the vast majority of criticisms being leveled against AVP1 are too harsh, and I'm just saying why. That's all.

Fair enough. Thank you for clarifying your position.

I find Event Horizon entertaining as a guilty pleasure flick, and it's quite a shock to see Sam Neill in that movie after he played the friendly paleontologist in Jurassic Park, but you won't find me calling it great cinema. I have to wonder why on Earth humans would design a spaceship that looked like that, though I still want the engine core as a desk model. The commentary's an interesting listen if you're inclined toward such things. I haven't checked out most of the other features on the DVD because, frankly, I'm not really keen on gore and I'm not sure how much I'd be grossed out.